firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Always wanted to make some, these won't end up on the thirdgen, they will go on my e30, but would like to share, very pleased with the results

16ga two 1.75" to single 1.87" stainless. 1.623" slip fits inside the primary side.

AlkyIROC

The 2 into 1 looks relatively easy. A 4 into 1 must be a nightmare.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

3 into 1 is a nightmare, i made a pair earlier this year... never again.


Looks good, i wish i had a TIG when i did mine.

project89

iTrader: (1)

qft, i wont make 3-1's anymore i make ppl buy them or i order them when i build headers now

makig them out of stainless is even more of a bitch then mild steel

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Having a band saw makes it "not so bad". Use a block to make the desired angle, then run the bend through. 90 degrees make s a 2-1, 60 degrees makes a 3-1, and double 90 degree cuts make a 4-1.

Typically I buy the best swedged collectors I can find, but am doing something a little different for the experience. I'm making "180 degree" headers for an inline 6. Can't be really 180* since the firing order is 60* apart, but I am using the TDC pairing cyls - so instead of having double 3-1's, it will be a 6-3-1 design.

Worst part about stainless is the blade wear on the saw

Mathius

If anyone decides to get into headers, I recommend these: http://www.jegs.com/p/Hooker-Headers...63776/10002/-1

Should keep the inside of your headers nice and smooth for airflow.

Mathius

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Wouldn't those create 2 "steps" inside, at each seam?

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

They would create a small step yes, but the assembly time for the headers would drop quite a bit. Probably less leaks to fix and easier to clean up the welds as well.

I usually use magnets to keep the tubes aligned, i'll have to look into these for the next set. thanks Mathius!

Mathius

Those steps ought to be a lot smaller than the ridge created by a properly penetrated butt weld, and the rings give you the added benefit of not having to be skilled enough to do a proper 100% butt weld, because you've effectively created a lap joint for yourself.

Mathius

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

At $24 each, I'll stick with my butt welds! That's as much as I pay for stainless 180* u-bends.

With a TIG welder and proper penetration, the inside of the weld looks exactly like the outside. I have cut many welded tubes apart to make sure the welds are good.

For keeping the tubes aligned (much better investment since they are re-usable) just ordered a set of 3...

http://www.vansantent.com/welding_ac...ice_clamps.htm

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Double vision....





From the insides, still have a littl more die grinding to do to clean up the tight areas that were difficult to weld...

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Now just stack those 2 Y's......Merge the outlets the same way & you've got a really short 4-2-1.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

LOL! Not quite, the pipes would need to be cut on 2 axis.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Yes, but still be merged in pretty much the same way, just not "as simple".

Mathius

Uh, actually, they're only $1.20 each. You get 20 sleeves for $24.

<shrug> Nothing wrong with doing it on the cheap, but those are an easy way to get a pretty smooth exhaust flow.

There's nothing magical about a TIG welder. A good welder can get the same results with any process as long as the machine will give him the right heat output. As a welder for a living and someone whose been welding for almost 10 years, nothing pisses me off more than to hear someone try to act like a TIG welder gives a superior weld.

That's correct, however there are certified welders who can't get a proper buttweld down, let alone on 16 gauge pipe, and a good weld should be slightly convex and therefore by nature is going to be a lot less smooth than the slight step those rings are going to give it.

So spending $90 on a set of clamps is cheaper than spending $24 for a set of rings? No wonder you couldn't figure out they were only $1.20 apiece. Your math sucks.

Anyways, those clamps will probably technically work, but they're going to be a PITA to position properly and tighten down at the same time. They're also going to take up more room which means if you're mocking up a set of headers in a tight engine bay you might not even have the clearance to use them. The alignment rings take up no more room than the pipe itself, and you can just tack them in place and go.

Your method will work, but trying to pretend its cheaper or easier is absurd, nor do I think it will give better flow no matter how good your welds are.

Mathius

Kory-88Iroc 350 tpi

iTrader: (1)

I tried those rings on the last set of headers I built. To me they were more trouble than they were worth. While I agree that a properly setup mig welder works fine in alot of situations, I would never build headers with one. In that instance a tig welder is the right tool for the job.
jmo.
Kory

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

No ****, someone posting on a car board that has some clue about welding... I suppose that it had to happen eventually.

I'm not sure that I agree about the step, but I haven't seen a set of those rings in person yet, if the inside ring fits very well and has a bit of a chamfer to it it could be, I'd be really surprised if it did though since there is enough variation from tube to tube that even that would create a step bigger than you'd get with even a decent weld done with the crudest stick welder.

As far as 16ga... 16 or 18ga exhaust is _much_ harder to weld well then what a lot of welders do day in, day out for a living. I'd much rather weld >1/8" thick steel even with too small a welder then I would <14ga with any welder... though I can do both OK.

I can't imagine a world where something like those clamps would be better than even just "hold and tack." it seems like they'd get in the way and never really line things up perfectly. If you insist on doing something like that you can usually do quite well with just tape, or you can cut holes in plane old hose clamps if you're really having problems lining things up. Magnets and even larger clamps work fine also. Hose clamps also work nicely as guides if you're worried about getting cuts in bends just right (make sure that they're not "cheated").

All that said, I almost always do the 'hold and tack' deal, and if in doubt I'll only put one tack so I can move things around a little and get it just right.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Thanks mark.

I have no problem welding, and you are one of the two guys that helped me a lot when I was learning a few yrs ago. Thanks for all the tips (if you remember even posing in threads with me haha).

TIG welds are fine, I have only been welding for 4yrs as my 2nd job...



Tried getting a good shot of the inside, but whatever, it;' for the same car. I'm not perfect, but am having fun Our 2.5l 6cyl went 12.3@117 with circle track tires. Big fun from small engines.

Still haven't had time to get back on these, but curious to see how the 3-1's turn out.

Mathius

For finish welding, sure, but if I'm mocking them up in the engine bay? Hell no. Quick tack with a MIG is much more desirable.

A very good point, particularly when dealing with exhaust pipe sizes. They're not exactly good, tight, tolerances. I suppose that all depends on where you order the pipe from.

Eh... there's too broad a spectrum of what welders do for me to throw around the word "most". For me personally, my job has called for me to weld on a daily basis at times, but then there are times when I'll go months without touching a welder. But when I do weld, 9 times out of 10, it's thin gauge stuff that has to be an airtight weld, not necessarily a structural one. On the other hand the job I'm on now required me to spend several months welding nothing but 3/16" material for security bars with a little 110v flux core welder. Would have saved the company time and money if they'd have sent out a 220v stick welder (and the shop already owns several), but hey. I don't pay the bills.

Mathius

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Was working on 660 headers, sneaked on of my collectors in while at the welding desk



and got the materials in to make the 3-1 and secondaries...


Well, I got the collector tacked and couldn't wait to show it. Stupid 10hrs engineering this stupid thing, I'll let the pics do the talking. Have to weld it solid, trim both ends and weld the expansion pipe on, but whatever, $280 saved on Burns in favor of 10hrs, ftl, but now I know how to make them FTMFW!...

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

"Try y" isn't in 6cyl vocab lol...

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Pleased with the final result...

jg04222

Looks good man.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

What degree are those bends? I want to make my own merge collectors. But im thinking of using 180 degree tubes which i dont want to do.