Blownz28man

iTrader: (2)

Well I just put a ford 9" in my car and really dont want to spend $600.00 of a HD torque arm. I have done some looking around and some people are making mini 4 link setups. They weld a bracket to the top axle tube on both sides directly above the lower control arm and a bracket to the lower control arm then construct a rod w/ two heim joints that will allow pinion angle changes. They also say this setup really hooks hard. They call it a "Mini 4link" theres actually a company that makes a kit too. Well I was messing with the idea of reinforcing the area by the subframe and just attatching it to that point. So it would be a four link. Any ideas? I really don't see how it would affect handling. This is what I've purchased so far

-3/4" left thread heim joints ($19ea)
-3/4" right thread heim joints ($19ea)
-2 left thread bungs ($4ea)
-2 right thread bungs($4ea)
-2 left thread jam nuts($1ea)
-2 tight thread jam nuts($1ea)
-5' dom tube($12)
-Misc sheet of steel to cut brackets from (free)

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

its not the best setup going, but have seen it work. I think five7kid has a set on his 3rd gen and they seem to be working ok.

there are pics floating around here of an older setup, not sure if its the same manucactur, but the arms broke in the middle where the upper link is welded on. something to think about,

jegseter torque arms and much cheaper than 600 bux, so are spohns and umi's. Even bmrs track packs are cheaper than 600.

ASE doc

Ive checked out the "mini four link" setup youre referring to and Im not sure how it would affect cornering. Since these cars are famous for their incredible handling, I wouldn't want to compromise that. I opted out of using SSM's traction bar setup for that very reason. However, I have thought about a true four link, like youre considering, and Id be curious to see how it works. I would think it would work very well. You could attach the upper link just above the LCA mount at the subframe. Just be sure to make brackets that will spread the force out over a large area as the metal there is thin. Heim joints would allow pinion angle adjustment. Super trick and cool!

Blownz28man

iTrader: (2)

Well the HD torque arms are around $600 give or take. I was thinking to support some of the metal by the subframe and making that an attatchment point for the "4link"

AlkyIROC

You would need to do a lot of reinforcing. The sheetmetal framework of a third gen doesn't offer a lot of support for that type of suspension. A mini 4-link will also reduce the handling of the already good third gen suspension.

The suspension needs to travel in an arc while maintaining proper geometry. A mini 4-link greatly reduces the arc and really screws up the suspension geometry. Equal length upper and lower tubes will help a lot but there just isn't enough room under the car to do proper equal length tubes.

If it was that easy to do, there would be many kits available to do a conversion.

Blownz28man

iTrader: (2)

I really don't see how geometry will be changed. All the torque arm does is prevent pinion angle change/axle wrap right? So as long as the pinion angle doesn't change when the suspension is compressed it should be ok right? I've heard a few people say that it hooks hard

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

As noted above, the 4link while good for drag racing is not good on the street. If you look at all the new SCCA and autocross suspension packages in all the magazines, they are all running 3 link's much like the stock thirdgen suspension.

I'd be fabbing up a middle link and anchoring it to the floor just behind the transmission. I've ordered steel dom tubing .120 wall online for pretty short money. Some heim joints and a steel (1/4") plate will do the trick. The heim joint(s) will allow for an adjustable pinion angle.

-- Joe

AlkyIROC

G-bodies and mustangs used a triangulated 4-link system right from the factory. Geometry is good for the street but poor for performance. Aftermarket kits allow repositioning of the bars for better performance but it still has a lot of limitations.

Without a triangulated 4-link system, you still need something to locate the diff. Panhard bar, diagonal link, watts link, wishbone. They all do the same thing but differently.

radical82

I would have to disagree on a triangulated 4 link not handling good... When set up correctly they handle quite well. The limitations are not an inherent part of the triangulated 4 link design, but usually a space limitation coming from the car they are installed in!!! I've played with 4 links on many different builds and been quite pleased with their handling and thrilled with the way they work on the street! However, that said, a properly designed 4 link is impossible on a thrid gen until you're ready to give up the back seat and do some major fabricating....

duckmanquacker

Check out Total Cost Involved products page #9 for the new 67-69 torque arm suspension. they use this for there corner carving set-ups.
And people say 3rd Gens dont have anything to offer, huh! yeah right!

ASE doc

The 3rd Gen's 3 link suspension is straight out of NASCAR. Its the best handling live axle suspension available. With the right mods our 3rd Gens pull 1.1g on the skid pad. Thats otherwise unheard of from any car with a live rear axle. The only cars under $100,000 that beat it are the Viper RT10 and the vette Z06. These figures come from a Hot Rod Magazine project 88' IROC Z.

The one issue I see with the 3rd gen rear suspension is straight line traction. Ive thought about a design something like what anesthes mentioned above with the addition of moving the torque arms front termination closer to just below the rear seats. This would move the vehicle's instant center and should improve traction without negatively affecting geometry.

AlkyIROC

??? When did NASCAR ever use a suspension similar to a third gen's torque arm system. Third gen suspension is not a 3 link because the torque arm is not a third link. NASCAR uses what's considered truck suspension. It's called trailing arm suspension. GM used it in pickup trucks up to around 1972 (maybe 1966)

ASE doc

I did some research today and you are right. Nascar does use a suspension very similar to that of a 60s chev pickup. I also was at the gas station today where a local nascar driver was gassing up his tow rig, nascar on the trailer behind, and the nascar had three link. the trailing arms were adjustable with several mounting positions at the frame brackets and the panhard bar was shorter, mounting to the axle just next to the center section. Of course this is nascar northwest and not the big boys.

I didnt notice what sort of torque arm he was running. I know that "3 link" refers to the two trailing arms and panhard bar. I was suprised to see that nascar doesnt run 3 link now. Ive seen it on nascars several times in the past. On well, learn something everyday.

ASE doc

While researching I found an ineresting website and thought I would share it. The link follows:

www.susprog.com/susptype.htm

BPWilliams

On my build I made a real 3-link set up and this car should handl
e great. There are two rods on the lower side of the axle in the standard posistion. the only change is chromoyl tube that is drilled for rod ends. then i welded a tower on the top of the Rear end to mount the third support arm. This arm runs from the top of the rear-end into the car and bolts to the main part of my rool cage and frontal push bar.

iluvmy91camaro

I have a 91 camaro that i did a total rebuild on. i have a true 4 link goin on. i got a ford 9 from an old truck, cut it down, bought a universal 4 link kit and universal frame rails and crossmember from summit and it works excellent. only downside is cutting out the enitre trunk. i have plenty of pics.

iluvmy91camaro

pics

iluvmy91camaro

more, and theres more than this. let me know if you want em

AlkyIROC

Your front crossmember is too high and it's upside down. The crossmember should be under the frame rails at the bottom and the dip in the crossmember goes under the driveshaft. That crossmember needs to tie the frame rails to the cars body, usually at the rocker panels. I have no idea how you have your frame rails attached at the front but with no support between the bottom, they won't last long.

You also have no supports going from the main hoop to the frame rails except at the rear. The diagonal bars under the main hoop that are currently going to the floor do nothing to support the frame rails. The frame rails need diagonal bracing to support them and keep them in position. You need diagonal braces going from the main hoop to above where the front 4-link brackets are. You also need an X-brace going from the main hoop to roughly where the shock mount tube is.

There are a lot of stresses on 4-link frame rails. If you made it to look simple and pretty for a pro street look, then you're fine. If you intend to use this at a dragstrip, I wouldn't want to be in the car.

iluvmy91camaro

i have the frame rails tied into the subframe connectors and old frame rails because we re did the system before. I don't plan on running it on the strip except on weekends. I got confused on part of the post but the cars still at the point where i can fix things if necessary. ill find some pics to see if those help. the diagonal giong to the floor is tied into the subfrome and from teh main hoop i have small bars connecting the the frame rails

stiletto

tell that to TRZ motorsports

Deimos140

I had the SSM traction bar kit and those things have been down in the 1.3's. I would buy mine again in a heart beat.

BPWilliams

I know that this about drag racing but here is a little better shot of my 3-link... food for thought...
I modified the rear housing for the 3-link set-up, the 1"x1" tube is just there as a place holder to move the car around until i can measure the pinion angle and make my rod-end bar... cage is held together with the sub frames....

3-link through body from cage to rear-end



Modified 10 bolt



Subframes: