dmason

I am looking for pictures and suggestions for mounting a fuel cell up front. Trying to decide whether or not to do it. Have all the plumbing to the rear but I am not crazy about the rear firewall option. Open to suggestions.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

http://s455.photobucket.com/albums/q...tlaw%20camaro/
From thread
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...roll-cage.html

What are you running that makes you consider doing this?

dmason

Now have a 383 stroker 11 to 1 with a 624 lift roller and afr 210 heads. Ran 1/2" from the stock tank using the stock pickup (minus the pump) and feeding with a Edelbrock 120 gph electric pump. Dawned on me that I'm suck through a small straw, so instead of sumping my tank I am going to a fuel cell. Not street driving this car at this time.

Shagwell

If you intend to keep it as a track only car, then a switch to a front mount cell may be the way to go. I would not put one in something that has the possibility to see any street miles, as a street car is more likely to end-up in a head on collision.

Front mount cells not only eliminate then need for the rear bulkhead, they also considerably lessen the strain on the fuel system, since the pump(s) don't have to fight the g-forces of the car launching.

In a car like yours that is not heavily modified, I would just sump the tank.

I could post pics of my front mount, but unless you intend to do some major mods out front, it wouldn't help you.

AlkyIROC

As mentioned above, do it if it's a track only car.

When I took out the factory fuel tank, it was around 20 or 25 pounds empty. Can't remember exactly. A full 18 gallons of fuel will add about 108 more pounds. You don't need all that extra weight for the track.

A poly or aluminum 4 gallon fuel cell might weigh 5 pounds or so. I run a 4 gallon poly cell up front and refill it after every run. I could make 2 full passes without refilling but a third pass might not get me back to the pits. Running gasoline, you'll have better mileage.

I also don't run a full size rad so I have room beside it to mount the cell.

dmason

Yeah I am still debating. I have an aluminum RCI that will fit in the old battery location, I haven't seen anyone do this and it should be pretty clean. I keep believing I will street drive this, but I never do....I guess there is not a wrong decision here. I can always go back to the other way. Shoot, gives me another excuse to spend time in the garage and not doing honeydo's! Sure is tempting to put it in the rear with all of my plumbing finished back to it though.

AlkyIROC

I was considering an aluminum cell like that mounted in one of the corners. With the tubes I have mounted from the top of the strut tower down to the frame, I don't have enough room but that's a perfect alternative to mounting it right at the front.

Technically mine isn't legal. Although it's within the body lines, it's not completely within the frame and is supposed to have a protective bar in front of it. Nobody as ever said anything about it. I think it's sort of a grey area. It has slightly less protection from an impact than mounting it in the battery location which would also put it outside the frame rail.

Yesterday I sold an old diff and the buyer was asking about a rear firewall. I told him I just have a battery back there inside a box. The fuel cell is mounted up front. I think I surprised him with that one.

dmason

Here's where I am at with the install, more pix in my public album, not sure if this is the best way to do post or not. Planning on routing 1/2" hardline to filter and pump but keep it just outside of the front tin which would put it inside of the previous bumper mount. Thought I would route it just in front of the radiator but near the bottom of it. The filter and pump would be just outside of the engine bay. Would keep things cleaner. Will I be ok with tech? Can't find anything in the rule book to suggest otherwise.

jg04222

as far as i know that is nhra legal. looks good so far.

Shagwell

With the pick ups pointed forward it can easily cause a starvation issue during launch. It woulr probably be ok on an NA carb motor, because the initial g-forces would subside before the bowls went dry, but I wouldn't run it that way with n2o.

dmason

Another view. OK no criticism about the roughness.....I will clean it up and repaint and make it all pretty....I promise!

dmason

Yep, I agree. No nitrous here. It is foam filled and does tilt slightly forward although the pix doesn't show it well. My front end is pretty low. Planning on keeping it full. I can turn it 90 degees and have the outlets in the engine bay, it just is not as clean a fit.

AlkyIROC

You can always cap off the outlet fittings and have new ones installed coming off the sides or even one coming off the rear just over the frame rail.

Does it look good and fit well? Yes.
Is it NHRA/IHRA legal? It's inside the body lines but outside the frame so like my fuel cell, it becomes a grey area that only a tech inspector can say yes or no.

Send a picture to your NHRA tech division and let them make the decision.

The rulebook states;
The fuel tank must be within the confines of the body

Then under general regulation 1:5
When permitted by class regulations, fuel tanks located outside body and/or frame must be enclosed in a steel tube frame constructed of minimum 1-1/4 x .118 MS

So although the fuel cell is within the confines of the body, it is sitting outside the frame and technically needs a hoop around it to be legal. Chances are a tech inspector wouldn't say anything about that location or how it's mounted. I'd do something like that myself if I ever decided to change my fuel fell except for the tube previously mentioned is in the way.

Other than finding some way to bolt it down, the only other thing that it needs is a grounding wire running from one of the bolts around the filler neck to a chassis ground.

Without a sump, those outlet fittings mounting in the current location or relocated to the side or back will suck air when there's still a fair amount of fuel still in the cell. Too bad you couldn't weld a sump type section off the side and have a fitting coming off the bottom just in front of the steering box.

dmason

Just got off the phone with the tech people at RCI. He stated, "If you keep it more than half full you should not have any problem with it sucking air, but they are intended to have the fittings pointed to the rear so gravity keeps the fuel in the line."

So, I will look at turning it around....I can do it at this point and it will keep the filter and pump in the engine bay. Cool, another night with the sawzall!!!

AlkyIROC

Since turning it around will mean the outlet fittings will go into the wheel well, check to see how much tire clearance you'll have first for fittings and lines. Weight of the car on the tires then turn wheels from stop to stop although turning right should be the only direction to cause problems with your cell in it's current position.

You could also cut out the remaining rad support and turn the cell around, keeping the fittings on the outside of the inner fender. Make a support that goes over the cell and around the fill opening to join back up to the fender.

I think it looks fine right where it is. Just get a fitting installed at the rear above the frame rail.

My 4 gallon vertical cell is filled full before every run. Same amount of fuel, same weight makes calculating an ET easier.

dmason

OK, I think I got it now. Have a couple of more shots in my album. Turned it around and cut a 2 inch hole in the fender well. Only the cap of the unused outlet will be there and just barely inside, nowhere near the tire. This is much cleaner now with the outlets facing the correct direction and I will keep the lines and pump inside the engine bay. Thanks for all the help guys I would not have solved this correctly without it. Funny how you get your mind set on a direction and can only seem to solve a problem from that perspective. I will fab up a brace and fill in the fender well where the horn used to be. A coat of paint and all should be good.

dmason

AlkyIROC

Will there be enough room to put an elbow fitting on the remaining outlet? I'm assuming that's a -8 fitting? A notch may need to be cut into the inner fender for an elbow to clear.

dmason

Should be, it's going to be tight, yes it is -8 fitting. I might be able to gain a 1/4 inch or so forward but yep its tight. I hate seeing the "chop" job in the pix, but I'll get it cleaned up. I feel a lot better about this solution though. I probably could have saved some of the supports I cut if I had started this way. It never dawned on me that it would fit like this. Once I got some of the tin out of there it made sense. I also now have room for the vent to clear the hood, I was going to fab it some, but now I should not have to. Thanks again for your help.

Shagwell

Just make sure there's at least an 1/8" gap around the fitting if you intend to run the anodized aluminum fittings; they will crack very easily under vibration/rubbing.

Seeing now that it's a bird/TA, you would have had issues with the headlight brackets(assuming you still run them) with the tank facing forward anyhow.

Looks good man.

Tony V

iTrader: (5)

I mounted mine in the right front battery tray area. The sump faces aft and the fuel pump is mounted under the right front bumper mount. The only thing I added was a piece of sheetmetal to the forward wheelwell in order to shield the tank from anything the front wheel would kick up. Here's a couple of pics.

jg04222

looks good.

AlkyIROC

With the breather/return lines at the top, will there be enough room to close the hood?

dmason

I need to post some finished pix of mine, hood clearance was an issue. I 90'd off the top then went to some braided, coiled it then ran it inside the fender well and capped with the old efi fuel filter that was laying around. Only problem I have is trying to keep it full, put a 950hp on it, runs awesome but the fuel keeps dissappearing.... Was going for a quick drive around the block last nite and noticed my pressure bouncing around 1 to 2 lbs....Empty cell, again!

Tony V

iTrader: (5)

Yes......barely