Sub frames (final design and build)
#153
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
First off, allow me to commend you on such an amazing fabrication. You have skill, determination and knowledge that many of us desire.
My question is why so many of the SFC have a bolt on aspect at the LTA.
I want to put SFC on my mild engined 86 IROC but I think it would be simpler just to make SFC's identical to the ones above this post and not bolt onto the LTA but rather just weld it alongside the mounting box.
So my question is, would not making to box that bolts to the LTA remove alot of the structural integrity of the design?
Thanks for all your input!
My question is why so many of the SFC have a bolt on aspect at the LTA.
I want to put SFC on my mild engined 86 IROC but I think it would be simpler just to make SFC's identical to the ones above this post and not bolt onto the LTA but rather just weld it alongside the mounting box.
So my question is, would not making to box that bolts to the LTA remove alot of the structural integrity of the design?
Thanks for all your input!
The box around the LCA mount is probably just there to make installation easier, so you can bolt it on before you weld it.
#154
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Car: 1986 Iroc
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Stephen,
Don't mean to state the obvious but I asked a direct question about 3 posts up...
To clairfy...the boxing and bracing made on the subframe connectors where they connect to the LCA/LTA...are they necessary? Or can you just weld directly to the LCA/LTA mounting block instead of bolting on the brace...
Don't mean to state the obvious but I asked a direct question about 3 posts up...
To clairfy...the boxing and bracing made on the subframe connectors where they connect to the LCA/LTA...are they necessary? Or can you just weld directly to the LCA/LTA mounting block instead of bolting on the brace...
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Greg,
Thanks!! That's exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks!! That's exactly what I was looking for.
#156
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
That and you want a nice 360* weld in which having these sort of box in the LCA mount for a nice solid connection.
Can't wait to see these installed.
*Stephen, your hilarious.
Can't wait to see these installed.
*Stephen, your hilarious.
#158
Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
to answer it simply... yes it would sacrifice some integrety. if you notice the stock LCA mount on the body is 1/16" steel, but since the LCAs only apply pushing and pulling forces to the mounts the 1/16" stock steel is sufficent for street driving. the reason the aftermarket bolts into the LCA mount is for convience, its something that is universal(allows for perfect fitment where they want it) on all 3rd gens and 4thgensm not to mention its the only real place that allows you to bolt on a pair of SFC on the back of the car without drilling new holes, it also allows u to reuse the stock LCA bolt hardware as well as reinforces the LCA bracket at the same time. since the LCAs dont twist really or see much if any side forces to compromise the weak stock design they work fine for the pushing/pulling forces of the LCAs. i would think tho with enough power and enough traction that the stock LCA bracket would "bow". adding the aftermarket SFC with the LCA reinforcment would prob eliminate/lessen this.
as far as im concerned the only thing on these cars that dnt need to be reinforced are the front Kmembers... otherwise id reinforce everything.
on a side note... fueledsoul. ive kind of copied your design and made myself some perimeter SFC to weld onto the inner thru floor SFC that ive installed on my car already. the arent as creative as yours but they should do. i ended up using 1"x2"x.120" rectangle tubing and 2"x 3/16" flat stock. the SFC tuck up so well u cant see them from the side of the car even if your laying down on the ground lol. dnt mind the messy garage
as far as im concerned the only thing on these cars that dnt need to be reinforced are the front Kmembers... otherwise id reinforce everything.
on a side note... fueledsoul. ive kind of copied your design and made myself some perimeter SFC to weld onto the inner thru floor SFC that ive installed on my car already. the arent as creative as yours but they should do. i ended up using 1"x2"x.120" rectangle tubing and 2"x 3/16" flat stock. the SFC tuck up so well u cant see them from the side of the car even if your laying down on the ground lol. dnt mind the messy garage
#159
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
You guys are awesome! Thanks again...I'll be doing my fab this weekend so I will put some pics up...Hope nobody minds me borrowing ideas here and there...
#160
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
If i ever do more then my cage and spohn mammoth frame ties. The main goal will be to be able to run duals, larger then 3". Pretty much channeling. This looks to be very structual and nicely done. I just want to know why you didn't heat up and bent some of the parts.
Very nice and I am glad you are doing this stuff yourself, I do the same thing. I am just handing out more idea's for others.
I am not picking on ya....
Very nice and I am glad you are doing this stuff yourself, I do the same thing. I am just handing out more idea's for others.
I am not picking on ya....
#161
Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
If i ever do more then my cage and spohn mammoth frame ties. The main goal will be to be able to run duals, larger then 3". Pretty much channeling. This looks to be very structual and nicely done. I just want to know why you didn't heat up and bent some of the parts.
Very nice and I am glad you are doing this stuff yourself, I do the same thing. I am just handing out more idea's for others.
I am not picking on ya....
Very nice and I am glad you are doing this stuff yourself, I do the same thing. I am just handing out more idea's for others.
I am not picking on ya....
#162
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
torches acetylene/oxygen work just fine and I have bent some serious stuff what way, with a good heavy work area. Like a thick steal table to weld up a jig or weld the part to, while you heat a certain area to bent. I just take my time. It just makes all the parts look pro or factory made.
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Yes and no. If it is white metal, there is more of a tendency for the weakening of the steel as the heating of the metal and rapid cooling causes the crystal like molecules of the steel to rearrange and become more susceptible to weakening/cracking. Done properly, all metal (including white metal) can be heated without structural concerns as along as it is done in a controlled manner (controlled heating and controlled cooling). The worst thing you can do to metal is dip it in water after super heating (ever done this to a glass haha). However, you can quench (type of tempering) metal by this process, but you better know what your doing or it can be dangerous (i've seen flat bar shatter by someone doing this improperly)
#165
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
This would HAVE to be one the most useful threads on this forum. Thanks Fueledsoul, I will be making some SFCs for myself very soon as it is too expensive for me to import some, and so I will be borrowing (stealing?) your design for the outer SFCs, and I may make a set of inners later.
#166
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
I have the round tube Alstons on my RS- do the job great(sound tube is stronger than square) but they hang too low and scrape on EVERYTHING. And I haven't lowered it YET!!
Are you going to market your design, because they look killer!
Are you going to market your design, because they look killer!
#167
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Finally i got these fully welded! I will probably clean them up media blast and powder coat them but not till after im done mocking up and install my exhaust...
Here is a shot of of converter clearance,
Since i think someone assumed there would be interference...
Here is a shot of of converter clearance,
Since i think someone assumed there would be interference...
Last edited by FueledSoul; 05-15-2011 at 01:29 AM.
#168
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
amazing work as always
#169
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Thanks
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Unfortunately 2 years ago when you started this project I decided to cut my homemade SFCs out and at least go for some better mounting like yours. Just wanted to say thanks for a bit of motivation.
Now I just need to find the time to get started.
Now I just need to find the time to get started.
#171
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
#172
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
thanks from eastern canada...
me and another fbody owner are doing your design. Well done!!
me and another fbody owner are doing your design. Well done!!
#174
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
I know this is kind of old but do you have measurements for these? What kind of changes would have to be made for dual exhaust that may be in the future?
#175
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
I hope they don't hang down off the floor, but stay tucked up against the floor.
#177
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
As far as updates go, I have some small tweaks to do to get them to fit like they did when i built them on the car since the welding warped a few spots. They are temporary back on the car since im currently working on fabricating a y-pipe and hooking up the rest of the exhaust so i needed these in place. It looks like i might have to modify one of the lags that connect to the front drivers side frame rail, its not necessary but im tucking my exhaust up as close as possible to the chassis. after that im double checking the frame measurements i will also get these cleaned up, powder coated then i will fully weld them in. The underside of this car is going to be ridiculous! Just for fun Here is teaser pic of the exhaust...
#178
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Since i'm in the mites of doing exhaust now, i contemplated doing dual exhaust i would still have the same clearance with dual 2.5 as what i will have now with a single 3"
Last edited by FueledSoul; 05-15-2011 at 02:03 AM.
#180
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
That's what i thought about doing, however i already bought this cat-back brand new about 5 years ago
#181
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
I like the overall design and this inspires me to see if I can make something myself instead of just buying it off the shelf. However I will say up front yours are in a league by them selves and mine would not compare. I just need to get the car in my shop drivable.
#182
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
I too will probably use your design. I was going to buy a pair but now I have a fun project in store for the near future. Great job... Really great job.
#183
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Thanks! i guess since this is still a semi active thread i will give an update if that's what you wanna call it so...
UPDATE:
I still haven't got around to getting the sub frames blasted and coated but im thinking i will do that with in the next few months so i can get them on in the spring and be done with them and by done i mean
(by permanently welding them in place) I had used a trim gauge to trim out my car and everything seems to be good but im going to run some more measurements before these become a permanent fixture of my car.
The exhaust turned out great and hopefully it will inspire more people to try there hand at fabrication i will post a link below in this post.
I will share what had to be modified on the drivers side sub frame like i said earlier in one of the above posts i want my exhaust really tucked up...
Link to the exhaust fab:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...-fab-long.html
UPDATE:
I still haven't got around to getting the sub frames blasted and coated but im thinking i will do that with in the next few months so i can get them on in the spring and be done with them and by done i mean
(by permanently welding them in place) I had used a trim gauge to trim out my car and everything seems to be good but im going to run some more measurements before these become a permanent fixture of my car.
The exhaust turned out great and hopefully it will inspire more people to try there hand at fabrication i will post a link below in this post.
I will share what had to be modified on the drivers side sub frame like i said earlier in one of the above posts i want my exhaust really tucked up...
Link to the exhaust fab:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...-fab-long.html
#184
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Car: 84 camaro, 88 trans am, 98 camaro
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
I changed my mind last last minute about welding them on the car... I decided to make them bolt on... Now i have been slightly against bolt on sub frames but that's why i went over board with mine not only does each sub-frame have 15 nuts and bolts and backing plates holding them in place (cough* that's 30 total) but do to my design i was also able to incorporate the boxed seat tracks on the floor boards... I think this was a better idea then welding them in place since i was able to cover more area with clamping force with longer plates in the frame rails...
30 locations (in red to make it easier to see)...
30 locations (in red to make it easier to see)...
Last edited by FueledSoul; 06-09-2012 at 10:47 AM.
#185
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
#186
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Here is where they now connect to the seat railings, i will also weld in tubing like i did with the sub frames...
Washer showing hole locations
Washer showing hole locations
#187
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Great job, thanks for sharing. I see a weak spot in the design from UMI, The long tube that steps down could be reinforced with a guset running down verticaly on both sides where the two tubes are pieced. This would only reinforce the vertical riggidy. Dont know if their are space restrictions preventing this. or if it would even be benifical for the application. Im a newb when it comes to car mods, These threads have given me a little push to get my feet wet..
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
any more updates, maybe picks of the interior side..
thanks
thanks
#189
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Finally got them powder coated!
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Those look great! I can't wait to see them on the car.
#191
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Yeah, i'll post pics once i bolt them up
#192
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
I need a pair of those, could I have black though please?
#193
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Done and installed - They now bolt in 32 locations...
#194
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Some pics before i bolted them in...
#195
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Some underside shots and an idea on the clearance... they sit about the same height as the UMI transmission cross member... actually the lower relocation brackets and rear of the torque arm hang lower then my subframes...
#198
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
Ok I wanna know how much to have you make me some!
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Re: Sub frames (final design and build)
FueledSoul - WOW...JUST WOW.
Makes the UMI sfc's look small by comparison.
How much for a set again?
Makes the UMI sfc's look small by comparison.
How much for a set again?