Step One: Design and information gathering.

I very precisely measured every single part of the driver's side louver (assuming the passenger side is identical and mirrored).

I then entered that information into AutoCAD in 2d...a little less accurate than the measurements due to my limited CAD skills.

Then I brought it to 3d, and started roughly sketching out my general idea. By the time it got to 3d, the actual louver "fin" sizes were off enough for it not to be considered accurate, as far as sending the drawing off to get fabricated louvers or something, but it more than serves its purpose for design.

Some screenshots of the design:

1. Shows a section through the louvers, after splitting them into individual "fins", and shows that the fins will have a long cylindrical pin mounted to the center of it, and then mounting (somehow) to the car, in a pivot hole. A cable will connect to each front bottom edge of the fin via a small hinge. The cable will run back towards the firewall edge of the hood to a vacuum actuator which will pull / relax the louvers under a certain driving condition. If I use full throttle = no vac and limited throttle = more vac, I will have it actuate so the louvers open to about 45 degrees more than stock look on WOT. As seen in the very last pic. Half throttle would look like the middle picture. Engine off would also mean no vac so I don't want the louvers to open, so it will be ignition activated as well somehow. On engine off, the louvers will lose all power and become limp and become completely flat and closed.

http://www.infernusgaming.net/87_iro..._7-30-07/1.jpg

2. just a 3d isometric view of the louvers
http://www.infernusgaming.net/87_iro..._7-30-07/2.jpg

3. shaded isometric view of the various stages
http://www.infernusgaming.net/87_iro..._7-30-07/3.jpg

4. top down 2d view of the louvers
http://www.infernusgaming.net/87_iro..._7-30-07/4.jpg

Also note, unlike the CFI equipped louver, it won't be all or nothing. And it won't be just those three stages, it should travel smoothly between the different stages as vacuum increase/decreases. And the louvers will be mounted and positioned via the rolling pins prior to being detached into the individual fins, to garuntee a stock look. I'm going to keep the stock plastic, hopefully it won't melt.

Other issues include water run-off onto the top of the plenum and etc.

Comments / Concerns / Questions?

Next step is getting some parts to work with, heh.


NOTE: the pictures are very large so please maximize the image if your browser automatically shrinks it, in order to see the actual quality

 

Just because you can draw it in cad doesn't mean you can build it.

What's wrong with an all or nothing deal?

 

There is also a neat press that punches louvers into sheet metal, all you would need is a piece of sheet metal the size of the louver it self and then press the fins into it with the press....viola functional louvers

 

Sounds like a cool idea. Very ambitious. i am a mechanical engineer and work on automotive parts at work (where I am now). I do all my work on CAD. Your CAD looks OK. Not great, but OK. If you really wanna do this you shouldn't be thinking of materials yet. At least if I were you. You should keep working in CAD till you have the entire project done in CAD. This might take a while but it will be worth it. Do you have the abiliy to get your hands on any other CAD programs? I use Pro/E. Great tool. After I make a part, and another and another. You assemble them and see if it all fits. Then you make blue prints for each individual part and review it to see if it is all machinable. Kinda pretend you are a mill and see if you designed anything that is just too hard/expensive to make. Redesign. Once happy, then take the blueprints to a machine shop and have them make all the parts, go home, put it all togeather and there is no guess work at all. Considering your CAD and install skills are up to snuff.

Hope any of this helped, if not, sorry.

Good luck.

-Dennis

 

I agree with Dennis. I love working in CAD...but for mock up and showing assembled parts its alittle funky. Pro E or even solidworks would probably be better for that.

It looks like a good idea though. Definetly a unique mod with a certain "novelty" feel to it. Im gonna keep an eye on this just to see if you get anywhere! Good luck!

Justin

 

thanks for the tips Dennis

I have thought of using aluminum or something but i don't trust my CAD skills enough to bring them to a machine shop to fabricate...i want them to be 99.99% identical to stock. The stock ones have a lot of curves and angles and etc, they are not just a flat piece of metal, they taper all over the place, heh.

Also, there will be no guesswork, I already know how I will make them fit exactly like stock. I will update the thread once I get some real things done.


83 Crossfire

I am well aware that you can't build everything you can draw in CAD, i work in architecture, so that is pretty obvious to me already. And CAD is just a tool for design in this particular instance. I started with hand sketches and brought it to CAD, refining a little each time I go. I feel I have brought it as far as I could with CAD, and now I will do my best to locate a hood and some sets of louvers so I can actually attempt some things.

You're absolutely right though, a lot of these guys on here CAD something but that's the last you hear about it. You need the motivation and know-how to bring it off paper, bring it off the computer screen, and make it something real that works and works well.

I estimate it might be a few weeks before I can get over to the closest Pick-n-Pull to see what they have.

 

Well, people seemed to have caught both sides of what I was getting at, that first, you can sometimes draw stuff in cad that you can’t really build, and second, there’s a lot of stuff cadded, especially on boards like this that is never built.

I’m not saying this to pick on you, but this is not that complicated a deal, and most people that are going to approach something like this and do something cool with it would probably get some basic measurements/trace out some patterns and then just go and fab the thing and be done with it. I could see the point of going to the effort of drawing it out like this if you were going to mass produce them, but otherwise I’d consider it a waste of time.

 

Other than making your engine very very dirty, how do these really function?

No matter what it is for looks. Your engine bay will be filthy from dust and debri. I have a functional cowl and it still irritates me with the mess.

 

my engine bay is already filthy from dust and debri



your cowl is literally functional though....meaning when you drive, air hits the windshield and goes down into the cowl. A hole in the hood will do little if anything as far as allowing air in while driving down the road, as air will pass right over top of it....and it is not anywhere tall enough to capture the reflected air off of the windshield.

my only concern is that of water.....i believe I can find a way to deal with it tho, and reroute the water

sorry i meant functional meaning they operate, or move, whereas most people speak of functional louvers as just being the hole in the hood part, with stationary louvers

 

i believe the point would be heat extraction not as a cold air intake like crossfire
i would think alloy would be the way to go as the stock ones get so brittle to begin with and how would you attach them to anything being that there plastic
unless you plastic weld them to something but being that you would be extracting heat they may very well melt
i had a Friend that dose c&c work
try to do this for me but he said making them move would be a problem but he was willing to just make a stock replacement out of alloy but in a fixed stock position
the piviot point would be in the wrong area from your models it would have to be the edge
if someone is that worried about getting some water on there plenum then
really they shouldn't even try this

also you have to think how to attach them to the hood

i dont think its possible to make them move and look stock

i remember an ad back in they day calling them heat extractors

really thats all i would want anyway
i thought about something like this when i still had tbi with an open element

 

My cowl is functional because My air cleaner goes right up into the hole I made and sticks out. It gets cooler air and not hot engine air.

 

i thought you meant a cowl hood

http://www.resto-world.com/67-69%204...owl%20hood.jpg

 

We on the Same Page Now?

 

If you made the air cleaner sealed to the hood you wouldnt have all the dust. I am thinking something like an old shaker hood that sealed to the bottom of the air cleaner "box"

 

This is very true. It would look insane but could work out. However, that idea was not the authors. His was to make a device that opened or closed it. That was all. No functionality as far as performance. Plenty as far as making your engine dirty.

 

it won't make the engine dirty because all of the dirt air and debris will fly right over it.

also as a side note.....even hood scoops do little to nothing as far as air actually going into the engine bay

now water...that's a different story

the reason hoods like yours actually work is because the air hits the windshield and then goes down into the air cleaner


also....i tried to construct some cheap mock-up of what i want to do using balsa wood and wood dowels but it's too flimsy to work with.....i really just need to get myself to a junkyard and get a couple hoods and sets of louvers so i can work with the real materials

 

I hate to say it, but you're in for a rude awakening. Good luck dude.

 

 

Just because you make stick figure drawings does not change the laws of physics.

 

oh really because we went over this in advanced physics for engineers and that's pretty much how it works

 

I bet you think putting the tailgate down on your pickup will increase gas mileage too.

 

actually the tailgate up will cause better gas mileage, of the two options

not really any sort of significant amount though

 

Actually quite significant. To an ordinary pickup with a 26 gallon tank two exact trucks one with the gate down on up. The one with the gate up got 40 extra miles to the tank. That is quite significant.

 

1.54 extra miles to the gallon is not too significant of a difference

especially considering the fact that the test was not done under laboratory conditions keeping the same humidity, temperature, etc, and not including slight changes in driving style, which is by far the greatest determination of gas mileage (lead foot anyone)

listen, this has gone on quite long enough, if you don't like my idea, that's great, you've expressed this fact, noone is forcing you to follow this thread. i disagree that my engine bay will become filthy due to this mod. i know it has no performance gains associated with it, I didn't plan for there to be and ive stated that.

 

Not that I really care but the windsheild has nothing to do with the way his cowl hood works.
On the other hand depending on the direction your louvers point could cause a negative pressure in the engine bay and pull heat out of the engine bay. The fact that more air moves through the engine comartment WILL cause it t become more dirty over time. That is just how it is....

unless you completely seal the compartment....

 

First off your calculation of the mileage is incorrect. In order to calculate this you need to know the mileage of the truck tested.

The trucks were both F150's brand new. Fueled same pump, only accelerated by cruise control and were on the road side by side.

Maybe it is all make believe though because you do not believe it.

Beats me

 

In the end, chances are this project will just give you problems. It is a huge hassle, especially if you don't have the CAD skills, or $ to have the parts made right. If it was a race shop doing this, yeah, maybe they could get it to work well. But for one person to get this done and done right it will be WAY to much $ for trial and error. Thats all there is to it. After you spent all that $, you are going to wanna look at these little flaps, and say "damn I could have gotten X for what I spent on this". And they will just make your engine a bit more dirty. (Not really an issue, just friggin clean it)

Either way, if you are sooo determined to do this mod, then go for it and post pics of the work, I am sure many are interested.

 

your quality of life will increase if you just do your project and post the results, instead of a play by play.. not that we dont appreciate a play by play, but if you take the time to respond to the some 50,000 boneheads on this forum, you will waste all your time bickering instead of fabricating

 

I'm confused. What is the purpose of this? Is it to let heat out? If so, then why would you need it to open a varying amount depending on throttle position? Unless, of course, it's just for fun/the challenge.

 

agreed, dont see the necessity for them to pivot, all you need to think of is how to keep the water away from the distributor, but realistically just try not to go for cruises on rainy days, if this is your to and from work car probably not the best of ideas.

i think designing it is an awesome idea, i would make a first model without the pivot points as i dont see the reason for them, then if that works out maybe go for a second one if you really want.

i've been thinking about this idea for a long time and started to realize, if it did function as heat extraction, is there a possibility that air going under the nose of the car, especially at highway speeds could get sucked up out of the hole in the hood, causing a lot of front end lift?

 

No. If anything, it would help keep the car down because the air won't build up under the hood. It will keep pressures down. askulte mentions it in this thread https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...ut-making.html

 

I find it funny that people are making a big deal about the engine getting dirty. Its an engine...not a dinner plate.

I know some people have done quite a bit of work to their engine compartments to make em look nice (me for one, though not on my IROC)...but most of the time dust and dirt are the of the least concern on an engine. More like oil leaks and such...

Biggest issue I see is the water. I've thought about this (making the louvers functional) myself...but I have no plans to make them open and close. KISS...its usually the best method...a simple tray under the louvers to allow water to run off away from critical components is all thats really needed.

 

It has no main purpose other than I think it would look cool and it is also for the challenge.

I was driving behind a porsche the other day and the idea came to me.....as it's louvers on the rear flew open when he went WOT.

I want them to vary because I don't want to just have to go WOT for them to do anything.
----------
water is definately the largest issue

depending on how much room i have to play with when the louvers are open to their maximum position under WOT, I might be able to install a tray like you said and reroute the water.

also...those worried about the distributor getting wet....if everything is in good condition that won't be a problem.....hell....it already get's plenty wet if you drive it in the rain. I could very easily just install the distributor cover that connects to the plenum that i don't have on there now, if i wanted the extra protection.

 

I looked at your design, and noticed it close to what I drew up for opening louvers for something else. I noticed that there is a design flaw here from mine.

The control rod is the problem. Think of your piston rod. It moves in a circlar pattern, and is usually diagonal while the piston is always straight due to the cylinder it is in.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...man/LOUVER.jpg

To put something like that on the underside of the hood without having a little box filled with the electronic gears and wheels, would be a hydrualic cylinder.

Much like a hatch support, but a bit smaller. But then you need a system for that. I don't see a system being any smaller or efficient than a small control box with the electronically controlled verison I thought of.

UPDATE~!
I made a small concept model out of legos, and found that there is a problem with my control rod. Apparently, it moves in a hemi sphere. This is probably goign to cause a design problem.
Video:
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...uver.movie.flv

To deter this "hemi-sphering", I decided that perhaps an oval like section for the control rod's bolt to slide up while it is pulling the louver open. This should keep the control rod straight.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ermodified.jpg

I have also noticed that this problem was noted on my original sketches for opening louvers, though I had not figured out how to fix it.

I don't think it would be possible to build working opening and closing louvers in this small of a scale. Please prove me wrong.

 

okay


here's a suggestion for you to try since you seem to be interested

replace the rod you're using to pull open and closed the louvers, with a piece of wire or similar

and replace the cylindrical side mount motor with a straight shot vacuum actuator

 

I don't see why you want the louvers to move with the throttle. That part over the hood is a low pressure area. At speed functional louvers will let hot air out, not cold air in.

They will went out hot air and possibly lower under hood temp slightley.
They could also release some under hood pressure at speed redusing aerodynamic lift at the front end.

None of theese has anything to do with the throttle position.

 

damn ppl stop bashing the guy. he jus wants something cool that noone else has done. he has already stated there is no other purpose except to reduce under hood temp. i think it would be pretty cool. think of it like fins on a blower w/ the throttle position.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ladybanana/442485325/

 

The thing with those is that they are moved at the hinge(mid section of fin). This louver design is moved at the bottom.

I'm not too sure how you would package that, but It could work with a rack of teeth pushing the louver's small tiny gear attached to their mid section.

The throttle body connection is just for looks, like how you see the example above. It looks neat when you rev the engine.

A straight shot vacuum, not too sure what that looks like or how it works, maybe send a few examples to me?

 

 

exactly, it looks cool when you rev it is why i want them to move.

vacuum actuator is very simple. low or high vacuum it pulls or pushes the wire back and forth

there is no rotation involved let alone an electric motor.

it will not require electricity at all

damnit i need to get to a junkyard! maybe this weekend.....

thank you to the few people interested in this and realize for what reasons im doing it

 

Like perhaps, vacuum secondaries on a carb?
I'm going to try to work a wire in and the rack idea. Be back with results later.

 

UPDATE

I went to a junkyard and got a pretty decent z28/iroc hood. it was the only one there and it wasn't dented in the spots that mattered so i grabbed it. it only had half of one side of the louvers but oh well. at least now i don't have to hack a good set.

Here is the progress I've made in just one day, im pretty happy with the results so far.

step one.....cut holes in hood and leave bolt in points so louvers can be placed in stock position.


step two....measure exact center from flat edge and match on opposite end, attach 1/8" rod


step three.....locate where rod hits car from underneath, mark location with pen and drill holes accordingly


step four... remove louver from the set and place into the holes...note that the louvers individually do not sit straight and have a very odd shape....when they're all in place though....it is a garunteed stock appearance.




i need to grind back the the holes a little bit more as the louver just barely hits it, as you can see in this video of it pivoting....but that is pretty much the process i will do for the entire set of louvers each side in order to locate where they go. ive decided to ditch vacuum and just use a basic brake cable type thing from a bicycle attached to the throttle directly to open them up. might go back to vacuum tho if that puts too much tension on the throttle....i picked up some vacuum actuators for HVAC from different cars at the junkyard so I can play with that if needed.

VIDEO: 6mb http://www.infernusgaming.net/87_iro..._8-12-07/1.avi

 

haha great job man. glad to see your goin' thru w/ it. cant wait to see finished product

 

i made some headway today continue on the way i was going. I got the half-set of louvers I had to work with placed, holes drilled for their locations, split them apart, put them into place. they all look stock. but, i've noticed it's a lot of work, and it'd be hard to reproduce this thing, especially as something that someone else could take and put onto their car.

You have to either chop away a large portion of the sides of where the louvers sit so they can swing properly, or chop the louvers a small amount at the proper locations. It's quite a bit of work.

So I'm also going to play with the idea of make a bolt-in bracket type system, that will just bolt into where the existing bolt holes are for the stock louvers, with no cutting involved. that way if someoned wanted they could go back to the stock look. the pivot for the louvers would be on the front edge instead of the center and they'd sit a little higher than stock but I don't think it'd be too terrible.

I'm going to finish one side using one method, then the other side using this new method and see which one works out best.

no picture this time...too lazy =/

 

Contrary to the stick figure picture above the reason a cowl hood works is because it creates a low pressure point under the hood and it "Draws" air in. Not because it hits the windshield. Second the flaw that no one discussed is that the louvers will have to actuate against the air flowing against them. Which as they open will create another low pressure point that will try to reclose them. Thats the part that will give you the most trouble. The louvers and rods will have to be made of some very strong material.

 

the amount of air traveling that low over the hood is extremely minimal.

won't be a problem

thanks for the two cents tho