Sonix

iTrader: (1)

The source (circuit city) has nothing, but B&E industrial electronics has them, so i'll pick up a ~20ohm resistor today.

I fought with this welder last night, a few tips to anyone who might be considering this:

- If you mount the gas engine rigidly, it'll shake. That's a fact of life. If you use a turnbuckle to tighten the belt, it'll shake loose. I couldn't get more than maybe 30A out of the thing and I couldn't figure out why, finally realized to re-tighten that. I may drop some loctite on that.

- When the engine starts chugging, and sounds like a lawnmower running out of gas - it is. Yep, they do run out of gas.

- I tried jumpering across the rheostat to see if I could pull the 130A load - nope, it stalls out still. But 4-5ohms does burn HOT, maybe 90-100A, which is more than i've ever welded with before. It'll burn holes in things. Once I get more fine adjustment out of this i'll figure out where my limit is. I also need to get some scrap metal to practice on.

- I think I may install a cheapy automotive voltmeter gauge on this. It'll give me a visual as to what my output should be. It's more expensive to get an Ammemeter that'll measure over 60A (then try to read it while I maintain an arc? no thanks) but I can easily get a 0-15V gauge and use that after the resistor. I'll just get a feel that 9V is about 80A, 10V is about 110A something along those lines.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

remember that most inductive ammeters will not work correctly for DC output.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Sweet...got two generators in the back of my jeep with 10hp briggs and straton engins on them. Horizontal outputs on both. One runs sorta, the other will just be for parts. Nice heavy frames to build the welder into, and fairly large isolated fuel tank...which I plan to box in more with some steel to protect it from sparks even more.

Hopefully between the two engines Ill get one running good, and I can start to get parts together to build the welder.

Good info in here that I hope to use soon!!

J.

Mathius

What are the specs on this thing? Some of the technical information in this thread is beyond me as I don't know a ton about electricity or electrical components. If I tried to build one, I'd have to ask a LOT of questions.

What's the thickest material on average you could do with this? What can you change to increase that?

Will it do aluminum and stainless?

Mathius
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I am interested in seeing/hearing how you added gas support to yours, and also what you had to do to make the sewing machine pedal work. Does it have a similar range of control to that of a real TIG pedal?

Mathius

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I think i'm only getting about 80-90A out of it right now. The engine just won't pull the load. I'm thinking it's just a worn out engine or something. The lawnmower engine has a NIFTY load balancing feature, as vacuum drops, a spring lets the carb butterfly open more. This causes it to "bounce" in RPM when you load it sometimes. It's a little weird. Anyway, even if I jury-rigged the throttle to go to full 100% opening, it still bogs down once I load it.

There was a nice 6.5HP engine with a side shaft at Cost-co on sale for $100 the other day. I shoulda bought it....
That should do the full 130A. I might look into a 10-15HP engine eventually... For now I can just do multiple passes.

You can do DCEN or DCEP. So check online for electrodes, if they are recommended for DC usage. I'll save you time, yes, AL and SS are possible. If you upgrade to TIG, same thing. Very few materials "require" AC welding, mainly for highly magnetized steel, AC keeps the magnetism from blowing metal out of the weld.

I also think the *best* way to add heat range (aside from a pedal) would be to to use a **** style potentiometer, and use resistors and transistors to get the right resistance range, and power handling. It'll need to flow 2.5A or so, or about 30W through the resistor setup. 0-10ohms is about right for that. I'm using a computer power supply to give me 11.76 (rated at 12V) DC output to the field coil on the alt.

I just did some 1/4 steel plate the other day. butt weld. I could see a good sized heat mark on the backside, but I didn't burn through. It sure warped the plates good though....

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Question for any ARC welders on here:

I have a "normal" stinger, looks like an insulated ground clamp almost. There's the other style which is kinda like a stubby pistol, and the rod goes into the "hole", rather than right through it. Is there any functional difference there? Should I "upgrade" to that style?
Thanks

84Z28406

Just found this thread and it looks like an awesome idea. I've got an old 4 cyl engine from a 240 sx, think that'll have enough jam for this? Couple questions though, where would I go for the heavy duty cable, electrodes and handle, the local welders supply? And what kind of projects will this thing weld? I heard exhaust mentioned, but what else?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I went to princess auto, it's kinda like Harbor freight. Cheap offshore stuff mostly, farm equipment. Welders supply shop or a farm supply. Farmers use arc welders (sometimes gas engine driven) pretty regularly.

The only problem with an automotive engine is you gotta rig up a cooling system. That's why i'd prefer an air cooled engine. Hmm, volkswagons have a use now afterall....

-Exhaust, which is tricky because it's thin, but doable.
-Sub frame connectors
- Home made control arms?
- Torque arm (i'll be doing this)
- panhard rod
- LCA relocation brackets. Any other custom brackets.

- Anything custom that you can think of really. Garage projects, shop etc etc. With 130A you can weld up to 1/4" in one pass easily. My 6.5Hp limits my output, but I can just make multiple passes.

84Z28406

Oh ok thanks. I thought most of those were fabricated using a wire feed welder, thats why I asked. The cooling system wouldnt be a problem, I have hoses and a radiator from my S10 laying around. Besides, the shed gets cold in the winter... So starting about now. Now i just need to find a use for the power steering pump...

Mathius

I've never seen the pistol type on an arc welder, but I know what you're talking about because it's a common setup on plastic welders.

Everything I've ever seen in a stick has been the clamp style and that's the "norm". I think I mentioned before, I'm with the sheet metal workers union. The fab shop I work at uses 20 ga minimum. We do a LOT of thick materials. I'm talking 3/16" sheet that we put through the rollers to make pipe. That sort of thing.

Every welder we use in the field is a stick welder, and they all have the clamp style stinger. Every welder I've seen on site (that is they are owned by the company we're contracted to, but we occasionally have used them when we do a job for that company) has had the clamp style stinger, and that's all we ever had in school as well.

I'd stick with the clamp. You get used to using the other kind and you'll probably have technique problems if you ever have to use the other kind.

Mathius

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Car engine… you need like 6-8hp… maybe 2x that if you ran the field coils at a higher voltage and right at the limit of melting… 99% of automobile engines loose more then that in friction, why would you bother unless we’re talking about an on board welder for a 4x4 or tow rig?

Stingers… the ones with the hole usually have a screw down clamp which grabs the rod more solidly and then you pick the hole in it facing the closest to the direction you need to weld in and bend the bit of right out of the stinger to get it just perfect… It’s supposed to be a more positive way of holding the rod, I suppose if someone gave me one I’d use it but I don’t know if I’ve had a problem with getting the rod held well, and hell, I’ve gone as primitive as jumper cables and 2 car batteries as a welder.

Multiple passes… I’ve tried that with smaller migs, it works but is almost always really ugly, so I wouldn’t do it unless you plan on grinding what you have left. Learn to weave instead.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I think the idea is that a car engine is free, or maybe $100 at most, and a 6-18hp engine costs more. I want to upgrade to a 13HP engine, but Princess auto wants $333 for it. I don't know where to find that size of engine used...?

Ok, cool re: stinger. I was just curious.

Yea, i'll be practicing weaves mostly. I just can't for the life of me get enough power out of this setup. I'm going to play with the resistance a bit more to get max out of it, but I swear there's no way this 6.5HP engine will pull 130A, or close to it. I'm already planning the bigger engine upgrade.

PS - Do you notice when using 6010 or 6011 you have to keep the rod moving quite quickly, or else it'll stick really bad? vs 6013 where you can move like a snail and it almost never sticks?

blimko

iTrader: (1)

sonix i might have a good motor for your setup..would you even bother to do a horizontal shaft setup? cuz i know i prolly got something big enough for you but its gonna need a little work. let me know.. i'll also dig through my junk pile and search for a horizontal shaft high horsepower one, i might have an 18 hp I.C. motor i'll check this weekend lmk

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

It wouldn't be worth shipping it that far though. Side shaft would work fine, i'd just have to rework my entire setup. Even if I got a bottom shaft engine I doubt it'd drop into the same place the current engine is. So when I upgrade engines i'll be making an all new tray for it.

Mathius

Could be the polarity of the rod. Can't say I ever remember using 6013 rod. 6010 was the norm when in school and doing my certs, but we had some 6011 rod there as well, and I tried that. I never really noticed any significant differences, but where I work now, the guy I work with swears that they use 6011 exclusively, because it's an AC rod, vs. 6010 being a DC.

Don't see that truly being the case, because I never switched polarities in class to run the different rods.

Then again, a lot of guys who learn things "in the field" instead of having formal training, sometimes don't understand how things work, they just go by what they've learned through trial and error, or what someone told them (whether its right or not).

The same guy who told me that 6010 and 6011 are supposed to be used on different currents, also told me that he just turns the welder up as far as it will go, and "runs like hell with it."

So it sounds like even at the top end, you'll never get this thing setup to compete with an actual welder/generator? What's actually determining the top end? Is it the motor, or the chosen alternator? neither?

Mathius

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

It's the engine. It stalls out if I try to run over (my wild guess) around 80A. I could jump the wires across my rheostat, to give the full 12V at the field coil, and see what 130A does (lots!) but the engine stalls almost instantly.
With a 12-18hp engine, and this alternator it'd work just perfectly IMHO. I'm not sure if its a tired 6.5HP engine, or 6.5HP isn't enough or what... I think i'm getting the full rated 6.5HP, and that's just not enough. Look for riding lawnmower engines or something like that.

84Z28406

Thats exactly it. I got the motor from a garage I was delivering parts to last summer for the price of "take it, it's yours." I realize it's probably huge overkill, but the next largest small motor I have is only 3 horsepower. Plus the 240 engine already has the alternator on the bracket, though it might not produce the current required. We'll find out I guess.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Alright, just a little update here:

I'm using between 4-6.75V at the field coil. Its tricky to get the resistance down to bring the voltage up more. I'm using a 25ohm rheostat with a 20ohm resister in parallel, which should give me a 9.3ohm rheostat. It seems like 0-5ohms is in the first 1/2" then 5-9 ohms is over the other 2" Either way, with 6.75V it'll bog down the engine to the point where it *just barely* runs.

I can burn a whole 3/32" E6013 rod without the engine stalling at 6.75V. I think I may still swap to a better heat control method, ie some kind of **** style potentiometer.

I'm playing with my weave technique for now. Trying half moons, full circles, back-forth type of things. Practice practice practice! I can weld 1/4" plate with a nice wide weave pattern, and realistically nothing on our cars needs more heat than this. If I *needed* to weld 3/8" plate I could always grind a V and do a multipass weave. If I needed to. If I wanted to weld 1/2" plate in a single pass I could have used a 13HP engine I suppose.

3/32" rods seem to be the limit, I cannot for the life of me get the 1/8" 7018 rods to work. Maybe i'll borrow some 3/32" 7018 rods and practice with those.

Another tip, the 6010 and 6011 rods take less current to burn them. ie. if i'm welding peachy keen with 6013's (heat setting wise), then grab a 6010 or 6011, I have to "run like hell with it". I think that's more the nature of the rod, basically it deposits the rod a lot faster (you have to lower it much faster into the puddle), and it doesn't leave as much metal behind vs the 6013's. More of the rod goes up in smoke, but it burns deeper. So if I needed better penetration i'd reach for the 6011's, burn it hot and fast (it'll still stick if you don't move fast enough, back and forth seems to work well with these), lay down a nice deep flat weave, then come back and lay a 6013 bead over it to make it look pretty.
6010/6011 LOOKS LIKE an ARC weld was done. Spattery, and the flux is harder to get all off. 6013 rods leave a weld thats hard to discern from a MIG weld. If I went over it with a wire brush in my angle grinder, then maybe a quick layer of galvanizing (or whatever you like) paint - I think some would be hard pressed to tell what was used to make the weld.

I'm going to weld LCARB's on with this welder in the near future, and maybe even make up an adjustable torque arm, and a little mounting bracket that'll go behind my stock tranny crossmember to mount it to. And while i'm there, a driveshaft loop

Mathius

Yeah, I was going to say that 7018 will probably require hotter temperatures than the 60 series rods.

7018 is usually favored for a weave/wash. When I earned my first cert, on flat plate (didn't know at the time that vertical would have covered flat and horizontal anyways), I practiced with 6010 rod, and it would take me about an hour to fill up a 1" v-groove.

After I got good with that, I switched to 6010 for the root pass only, and 7018 for the rest, and I was able to run a test in about 15 minutes.

You can quite literally turn the welder up hot and just make a great big pool of metal with 7018 on thicker materials.

I hadn't stick welded in about 4 years, but lately I've been doing it quite a bit at work and I find that it was much more enjoyable than I remember. But then anything beats MIG'ing, if you ask me.

Mathius

84Z28406

I just found the the new alternator I bought the day before I totalled my old dodge truck. Its a bosch unit, 90 amp. Is that going to supply enough current to weld with or should I look for the 130 amp ford unit that was spoken of earlier?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

You'd be on your own when it comes to figuring out how to wire up directly to the field coil and bypass the regulator 84Z28406.
That'll be enough to weld, that's probably all i'm using now. But i'd recommend you get the other one. I paid $30 at pick a part for it, it's common as borscht (and Ukrainians) in Winnipeg....

84Z28406

The wiring would probably be the easiest part. The 1990 halfton it came off of has a separate regulator thats located up by the firewall so there are two threaded stubs on the back of the alt. Well, three if you count the positive for the output. Does it matter which stub I use for postive and which for negative on the field coils? I imagine that changing then input polarity would change the output polarity, but only if the alt didn't fry in the process.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

No, I don't think polarity matters for the field coil excitation.

You can weld with either DCEN or DCEP, so output polarity doesn't matter either. One will just work *slightly* differently.

84Z28406

"Slightly" huh? I guess I'll just have to play with it to see which works better. Got the trans off, now i need to get it to my shed. Anyone who tells you import motors are light is lieing to you.

Mathius

Ran some 7018 at work the other day for the first time in like 4 years... Something that came back to me right away... 7018 sticks easier than the 60 series rods. Not because of any polarity or attraction issues, just the fact that it makes such a bigger puddle, you have to move faster, and keep the electrode away, or it will literally melt into the puddle and stick.

Mathius

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I still can't get it to work right with the 7018's.. I did realize that as you strike the arc you must pull the rod much further back compared to 6013s, until it stabilizes, then you can go back to work. I still need more power to run it right though. Once I bring the rod close enough in to get the right penetration it sticks. Drives me nuts. Needs mo-powa.

My adjustable resistor has very little adjustment below 4ohms. I can basically only get up to 6.75V. Otherwise I can jumper it to the full 11.7V.
6.75V will bog the engine down somewhat though, but I think I can run it at 8V at least.

I'm tired of that, so i'm getting a rheostat from digikey, 25W, lets hope that it lives for a bit. If not i'll just rig up a circuit with a few 50W power resistors and a 6 position switch, then just have some discrete settings for the welder.

I think tomorrow night i'll get a chance to try the new rheostat, and see what it can do.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Stumbled on this thread, and figured - what the heck - might as well update.

I am now using Q=2 alternators, and a 13hp engine. I have a lawn tractor battery to start the engine with.
I have a dual belt sheave on the engine, so that each alt gets it's own belt. When I tried with one belt, I had a hell of a time getting it tight enough. This works better, since I don't have to ruin the bearings keeping it tight.

I *cannot* stall this engine now. Even flat out, 12 VDC to the alternator, and i'll obliterate 1/8" rods. I have no idea what the amperage is, but I can weld damn near anything.

I do have a TIG bottle, and a 125A and 200A air cooled tig torch. I also have the "pistol" style ARC welding torch. I can weld anyway I like.

Haven't had an opportunity to weld much lately (busy with other things), but I have high hopes on this thing working well. Only problem is when it's 0* outside, and i'm running a gas engine in my garage, you really want to put the exhaust fumes outside....