samiam91RS

So Im not sure whats all the hype with the 2055's vs the 2460? besides personal preferance? im not sure. I already have a magnaflow catback so im going with headers and a Y-pipe next. and do you need that AIR thing? is that to make it street legal? can i just cap it off??? so im thinking about jus ordering the 2460 1 5/8 headers. but jus wanna make sure im doing the right thing first. anyone know what kind of hp and torque gains from the bolt on? and differ in sound?? please indulge me, jus need some help before i order them up. thanks guys.

Apeiron

The 2055 comes with a Y pipe, and is made from lighter gauge steel.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

San Diego = you need that A.I.R. thing.

Of course, they're made for the TPI application, and you have TBI.

samiam91RS

but someone posted a link for the 2460 and a y pipe that fits it. basically i just wanna know hey, if i buy 2460's with a y pipe will it bolt right up and be smog legal? and can i do the same with the 2055's? thats my question, i dont care about oh well this is made from metal that can withstand heat in outerspace next to the sun and are.38277473721 nano inches thick flange. thats just nuking it lol. but i know it matters somewhat. another thing i noticed is 02 sensor spaces. do they come on y pipes witht the hooker headers? so i can just slip those in?
----------
wait which ones are made for the TPI application?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

The 2460's don't have air tubes, and the y-pipe that you have to buy separate for them is pretty cheesy. The 2055's have the air tubes, a really sweet y-pipe that's included with them, and they're 50 state smog legal. If you don't want all the bells and whistles like you mentioned above, just get the plain, black painted set of them. They only cost about half what the coated ones do. As far as thickness goes, my 2055's are a hell of a lot heavier gauge than the Edelbrocks I used to have.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Here are some pictures of the two of them (I chose ceramic coating since they look better)

Hooker 2055




Hooker 2460



In all my time on Thirdgen.org, I've never seen anybody recommend the 2460 over the 2055. The ease of install on the 2055 what with not having to build or use a crummy Y-pipe just makes sense.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

For '86-'90 TPI single cat application. Don't forget, this is California, and little details like that matter to them.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I looked up the Carb EO number and it applies to all 82-92 thirdgens. The Hooker 2055's are the best for a TBI engine. The only problem is you need to fabricate the place on the header for the heat stove that goes from the manifold to the air cleaner. Dont get the Edelbrock ones for TBI engines. They are tiny and restrictive.

samiam91RS

ok i understand the difference now. so is i worth it to get them ceramic coated? just to prevent less heat in the engine compartment right? and looks i suppose. ill go with the 2055's thanks for the info mentioned above. but does anyone know the hp and torque gains from it? i have a stock tbi with a catback. will it make a sound differ?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's very surprising, since the EFE valve won't work with them, and neither will dual cats.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

EO #D-164-4 applies to all of Hooker's headers from part #2017 to #2077, regardless of make or model:

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...eo/D-164-4.pdf

To me that means you can mix and match headers from TPI car onto a TBI car, but I wouldnt bet a million dollars on it.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Look at the E.O. again - on page 1 it says, "...for the General Motors Corporation vehicle applications as listed in the Exhibit, which is attached hereto..." On page 4, for the 2055's, it only lists '86-'90 TPI 3" inlet slip-on cat 305-350.

If you go here http://www.holley.com/2055HKR.asp , and click on the Application Footnotes, it will bring information up for '86 thru '90, but not '82-'85, or '91-'92.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

The reason why they dont list the 2055's for 82-85 is because the y-pipe bolts to the cat differently in those years. I am not sure about 91-92 unless they are referring to the dual-cat vs single-cat difference in the y-pipe. Still those headers and y-pipe will bolt onto any single-cat 82-92 thirdgen, with some minor fabrication of the connection to the cat depending on year. And you'll need the heat stove tube on the driver's side for carb and TBI cars. That's the only reason they would list them as 86-90 as those are the only years they are a direct bolt on with no modding needed.

samiam91RS

the heat stove tube? does this need to be purchased seperately? jus wondering cuz i dont want to run into now what scenarios and have the whole operation on stand by in search of this tube. i want to put the headers on myself, whats the best way to go at it? from the top of the block or put the car on a lift and go from the bottom? if anyone has some prior experience for this...

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Put the headers in from the top. And you'll probably be able to install the headers but you'll have to go to a muffler shop to get it welded up to the y-pipe and cat.

LarsZ28

Here's my 2460's with ceramic coating, they slide in with ease from the top (with the way my engine bay is at the moment with the front accessories removed).

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Not to beat a dead horse, but the way I read the E.O., and what I've heard from those going through the process (I didn't have my Camaro when I lived in California, had to deal with them for the '57, though), is the E.O. can be submitted for a range of products (page 1); if submitted for more than one product, it will also give the product part numbers and what applications any specific product meets the C.A.R.B. requirements (they say "attached", page 4 in this instance).

2055's are only C.A.R.B. compliant for '86-'90 TPI single cat vehicles. The reason they don't list them for the other years, induction type, and cat type, is they are not certified for those other years, induction types, or cat types. There are other headers listed for other vehicles (2051, 2052, etc.) that Hooker no longer makes. But that doesn't mean the other vehicles are covered for 2055's.

Just trying to avoid someone spending the $'s based on recommendations received here, only to be tossed out on their ear by Herr Inspektor.

Of course, what you might be able to sneak by them is an entirely different subject. . .

samiam91RS

If anyone has the 2055's that can answer my question, is will you be able to put 02 sensors in them? do they come with the holes for them?
----------
I keep hearing about these inspectors. are they always around to rape you with what you havve in your engine? when i took my RS to get smoged there were only 2 guys and they didnt even know how to speak english really. or are they just there sometimes? what do they look like?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

The driver's side header has the threaded hole for the sensor in the collector, basically in the same spot that your factory exhaust manifold has one. You can see the hole in the pic that Reid Fleming posted earlier in this thread.

ZackD

yes, there is an o2 bung on the left side where all the collectors merge, i didn't even see it at first but it talks about it in the instructions, by the way 2055 kit comes with all the bolts and gaskets as well as the headers and y-pipe. the way i see it, why not use the air system?

y-pipe looks very well made, nice bends, not hacked up cuts and welds (although there are a few places where its welded but not in the bends)

Mike305RS

I'm in the same boat as this guy. 91 with a 305 TBI and I was looking at getting the 2055's at everyones recomendation. What is this heat stove thing? I see that each header has a tube on top, is that for the AIR thing, what is the heat stove and do I need it? I am getting a open element air cleaner.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

You need it for smog but it doesnt work with an open element air cleaner.

Its the silver flexible tube on the driver's side going from the exhaust manifold to the air cleaner.

F_N_JUNK

iTrader: (4)

Actually, it's just there to heat up the air going into the TB for cold starts and such..... it is not needed at all, just raising the temp of your incomming air, which is OPPOSITE of what you want!!
----------
once again.... if you did not need to pass emissions, it is much better to go with the 2210's and a custom 3" dual set-up. It will cost you the same money and you will get MUCH< MUCH more power and performance, plus it will support LARGER mods down the road like bigger motor and such.

ZackD

Depending on your State, SMOG police / inspection will check for the presence of a stove pipe, heat pipe, whatever you call it.

It technically is an emission device, however it does not actually transmit any emission gases. It pre-heats the intake, the little flapper door inside your intake is supposed to close and open to allow the warm air during cold conditions.

F_N_JUNK

iTrader: (4)

Got ya.... I dont have emissions here where I live so I did not know that. GM does not make that part of their SMOG equip list though, strange they can enforce that?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The print-out for the '82 Camaro I just picked up, the California "Smog Check Vehicle Inspection Report (VIR)" has a visual inspection checklist. It includes "Thermostatic Air Cleaner". The so-called "heat stove" is mounted on the driver's side exhaust manifold, and is part of the TAC. I don't have a VIR for a '92 Camaro, but I'd guess it's similar.

I'm not sure what GM list you're looking at, or if it lists "Thermostatic Air Cleaner", but as we all (should) know, Kalifornia operates under its own set of rules.

MiScHiEf

Hi,

as previous people stated, i'm also looking to get the 2055's for my 88 formula tbi.

I however, have a open element air filter, so the heat stove tube was disconnected? so i imagine it shouldn't matter if i get the 2055's with no heat stove? i know the edelbrock ones have them, but they make headers specifically for TBI, and i don't want to get restrictive headers.

Thanks! any info is appreciated, just wish someone had that setup to tell me if it worked or not.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

OMG, it's only people who live in the smog **** state of CA that have to worry about something as retarded as the heat stove. I don't even have an open element air cleaner on my TBI and I ditched the heat stove a long time ago. Never failed a visual inspection that way, and my car starts up and idles just fine, even when it's 0 degrees outside. Yank that crap off, put a vacuum cap on the port at the throttle body unit, and be done with it.

F_N_JUNK

iTrader: (4)

the heat stove is a 18 gauge piece of crappy metal GM has to put on the cars to sell them in Cali.... dont worry about it.

Edelbrock does not sell "heat-stoves" on their headers, I have a set of 92 TBI Headers here in the garage, all they have is the A.I.R. tubes.

Go with the biggest primaries/collectors for the cheapest price.

The 2055's are super fancy, but also super pricey... check out Doug's Headers in the midlength. You get them ceramic coated and you can get a y-pipe to match. They are 1 3/4" to 3" collector for $500.

Headers
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...0002_528845_-1
Y-Pipe
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...0002_528858_-1

Firetag

Is there any difference in 2055's for bbl vs. tbi or tpi?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

No, because they're only listed for TPI applications.

Using them on the other applications is very common among members.

MiScHiEf

Well, the non-ceramic coated 2055's, http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Is $449, around the same price as the edelbrock Ti-Tech Coated ones, heres a pic of those http://static.summitracing.com/globa...dl-68753_w.jpg , i could be wrong but that looks like the heat stove to me, on one of the headers, not that it matters, i'm getting the non-ceramic 2055's.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

No, actually EVERYONE has to worry about it, as the heat stove on a TBI or Carb thirdgen is considered part of the emissions devices. And its a violation of FEDERAL law to remove any emissions device from a street vehicle. But if your state doesnt enforce it, *shrug*.

MiScHiEf

Haha, u just got to know the right people.

I know a guy at Car-X, and he removed my cat with straight pipe, put the air tube back inside the pipe tho, but yeah hes like its against the law so do me a favor and don't tell anyone. duh i get my inspections there too since he'll pass me.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

GM has been putting that stupid thermac/heat stove getup on their cars since the early 70's. How many carbed, 2nd gen f-bodies do you see that still have the ugly, stock air cleaner on them instead of a nice, shiny, aftermarket, open element unit? I'm with Mischief on this one. I also know plenty of people to where it's never a problem getting my car to pass. Putting that aside though, I can guarantee there's not a shop anywhere in my whole county that'd ever fail me for the heat stove, including the state's own testing center. You have every last ounce of my sympathy for having to live in a state with smog laws as brutal as California's are, and still try to hot rod cars as a hobby. You need to take the whole idea of living in California into context before giving advice to people who don't live there. In every post where someone asks about removing a smog device, you get up on a soapbox admonishing us how it's a FEDERAL VIOLATION to remove anything. In most states, you really don't lose any sleep worrying that the feds are gonna bust down your door to arrest you, or stop you on the side of the road and handcuff you on the spot because your heat stove was removed. I think it would be a better deal if you simply tell people to check their local rules before attempting to remove something. A lot of states have a visual inspection, but only a few are really strict about it. Most places, as long as it passes the sniffer, you're good to go. Reality check here, even though removing smog equipment is a FEDERAL VIOLATION , people do it every day. Even some of the cops around here who are friends of mine have asked me who my "connection" is to get their personal vehicles passed. Lol.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I just find it hilarious that people are removing your emissions devices on their 14 second, 15 MPG cars, thinking they're gaining 50 HP. While we in CA are running 12's, putting down 325+ HP to the wheels, and getting 20-25+ miles per gallon, while passing CA's "****" smog inspection.

And I make my soapbox post because it wont be too long before enough hippie liberal tree huggers get elected to office, and people want to "go green" so they start thinking it would be a good idea to "go green" and start smogging all cars. Then what are you going to do since you've thrown out all your "smog crap?" The more we hot rodders are seen violating the laws, the tougher they want to make the laws to try to stop us. I for one dont want to see that happen.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from too. And don't worry, I'm not so extreme on the idea of removing all my smog stuff that I just threw it away. It's all packed away nice and neat in a couple of boxes just in case the day ever comes that I'll need to put any of it back on. It seems like all the smog extremists are located on both coasts. California is definitely the strictest, but I've also read posts from guys in NJ, MA, CT, and so forth, where they say it's pretty strict there too. It appears that us landlocked, cornfed states will be the last holdouts when it comes to that crap, but I'm sure it'll reach us eventually. Hopefully I'll either be dead or too damn old to drive a hot rod by then anyways!

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

just to clear something up dougs headers are not equipped for AIR and they have the same dimensions as the 2055Rs
Doug's Headers #776-D3320

Metallic Ceramic Coated Headers1982-92 Small Block 265-400
1-5/8'' Tube Diameter
3'' Collector
SAP Port Shape

for 560$ id say go with the hookers(460)... i got mine for 100$ cash on craigs list

91camarosRS

iTrader: (5)

correct me if im wrong but the 2460 and the 2055 are both shorties????? and the 2460 is cheaper? i have the 2460 and love them

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah they're both shorty style, but there's a pretty vast difference in the construction and quality. The 2055's come with a beautifully made 3" y-pipe, whereas you have to fabricate your own for the 2460's. They also have a ball flange type collector instead of the flat, 3 bolt style, so there's no gasket needed to seal the collectors, and the pipes are made from a heavier gauge steel. They also come with AIR tubes already on them. I think you can get the air tubes on the 2460's under a different part#. Either style will do the job, but a lot of guys don't mind spending the extra money to have a nice y-pipe already included with the headers.

donnis618

I'm stepping up to new headers/y-pipe. I know everyone is on the 2055 kick, but why pay more for a header just to cut the air tubes off? Or even cap them making an eye sore. Looking online I see they have a y-pipe that fits the 2460. Has anyone actually used this combo before? Most of the quality comments seem to be from readers who just jumped on the band wagon of the 2055's. I may just order the 2460's and y-pipe and give it a try. Anyone?

donnis618

Btw, hooker Y-pipe for 2460 p/n is 16767.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

And you'll spend as much again modifying that y-pipe so it's half-way decent.

FlippindaBird

iTrader: (10)

if you dont want the AIR why dont you just do long tubes and a custom Y ?? have it dump into a single 3.5" system thatd be plenty of flow for most 355s

gta_knight

Ive been looking through loads of threads about these 2 headers now, im from the UK and we dont need any emissions stuff on our cars over a certain age, not even a CAT, im going to be gettting a custom made stainless exhaust next year so ive been thinking some headers will do it justice ! If i can fit them myself before it goes to the exhaust place then that will solve a lot of problems.

I think after seeing what people have said i will just go with the 2460's as i dont need to worry about a Y pipe, or any of the air pipes etc, makes sense to me. And also im not really after mega performance, i just want the car to make a nice burble and go well when i feel like it, im not into going to track days or anything.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

From a performance standpoint, either of the header sets ought to work good for what you're aiming to do. However, the advantage of the 2055's is since they come with a matching y-pipe, it saves a lot of hassle. I have the 2055's on my car, and I gotta tell ya, the y-pipe is a real work of art! It's so nicely made, it really is worth the extra cash. Another nice thing with the 2055's is the collector flange is the ball socket style, which doesn't require a gasket of any kind, so you never have to worry about burning or blowing out collector gaskets, which is honestly a very common problem with the old, flat 3-hole style flange that the 2460's use. I'm pretty sure you can order the 2055's straight from Hooker with the AIR tubes already removed and the holes for them spot welded closed. Or you can cut them off yourself and weld up the holes. I had them removed on mine, and it really makes a big difference clutter wise. Makes it a lot easier to change spark plugs, routing the plug wires, and getting the valve covers on and off. I actually have to go through emissions where I live, and they didn't even pay any attention to the fact that the AIR tubes weren't there! Since you don't have to worry about emissions in your area, I sure as heck wouldn't have the stupid AIR tubes in the way. If you're not too worried about the cosmetic appearance of your headers, you can save a lot of money by just going with the standard, black painted headers instead of ceramic coated ones. Yeah, you'd save a bit of money going with the 2460's, but it really is worth the extra cash to go with the 2055's. If I remember right, there is a y-pipe available for the 2460's, but it's only 2.5 inches in diameter, whereas the 2055 y-pipe is 3 inches. Also, I'd highly recommend using these header gaskets. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-66011/ They never burn out, and I haven't had to re-tighten my header bolts a single time since I first installed them. The link I posted is for the round port ones, and they match the ports on the 2055 headers perfectly. Those gaskets are worth every penny! One last recommendation is to use this style exhaust clamp to attach your converter to the y-pipe. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WLK-33272/ It's a band style clamp. It doesn't crimp the connection at all, which makes it a piece of cake to remove the cat whenever you have to take anything apart. I had to remove mine after having it on there for over a year, and I just loosened the clamp and slid the cat right off the y-pipe! I use a "test pipe" in place of a converter, but I have to put a cat on once a year to get through emissions, and using that band clamp makes swapping it out a 20 minute job! You're welcome to send me a PM if you have any other questions. I definitely recommend spending a little extra for the 2055's though. You won't regret it!

dabird07

iTrader: (10)

so basically the difference is the ease of installment of these headers and different sized y pipes correct me if im wrong i have the 2460 and plan on installing them tomorrow when i get my heads hey came with gaskets so id figure i use those

i just gotta figure out if i can use this ac delco o2 sensor i got from a friend afs-20

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, since you already have the 2460's, that would definitely be the cheapest option for you. If you don't have the y-pipe yet, you'll need to purchase that. While you can fabricate your own y-pipe, it's FAR easier to buy the one that Hooker sells for the 2460's. On that O2 sensor, yeah you'll want to enter that part# on some parts store website and make sure it's a match for your engine. If it's not, it's pretty cheap to buy the correct one brand new.

Andrew James

iTrader: (3)

Hooker 2460 has this y-pipe selection: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOK-16767HKR