broski

New to the boards. Whatsup!

I just got a 1991 Camaro V8 5.0 RS

I noticed that when starting it up, after about 5 seconds, a poof of white smoke appears. It then goes away and I never see it again until starting the car again.

I had the hood opened earlier and then turned on the car too and saw a little bit of white smoke. The guy i bought it from said he hadnt drove it in a while but wasnt sure what the smoke was.

It is white, i dont notice a blue tinge, and it does sound like burning something. Im not to sure what burning oil or coolant smells like, not a real car buff, but I know it smells of something burning, i think.

Car seems to run fine, but again this white poof happens when starting.

Also the car has a slight tapping noise when first running. When you first turn it on , and drive for about a few minutes, u hear this slight tapping, but them goes away...

any idea guys? i hope its not a blown head gasket...

broski

Just a heads up, I was readinga little about the smoke. I read that if the smoke is CONTINUAL, it could be a head gasket, but if its at startup then it shouldnt... this is the direct quote from a mechanics forum "White smoke when first started is normal. If white smoke continues you have an internal coolant leak, i.e., cracked head/blown head gasket. Black smoke is caused by a rich fuel condition. Blue smoke is caused by oil consumption. The smell of coolant inside your car is caused by a leaking heater core."

So if this is just white smoke on turning on the car, here is another quote from another forum "White smoke is caused by coolant or water coming out the tail pipe. There is a chance that the white smoke was caused by water splashing up from a puddle onto the exhaust pipe. Keep an eye on the coolant level in the radiator in any event."

Hope you guys can help!

hgffrank

Sounds like valve guide seals are bad. Smoke at start up only is caused by oil getting by the valve seals. They are a very cheap and easy fix. the smoke looks white but does have a VERY slight tinge of color. I have had two 305 engine that both had this problem, new valve stem seals cured the problem on both. But my valve guides were good, sometime when the valve guides wear they will cause the seals to wear out and fail, so in some cases head rebuilding is required to correct valve guide clearances and allow new seals to perform properly for a long time.

the tapping is a worn hydraulic valve lifter. As they wear they dont hold the oil pressure well when cold and bleed the pressure out causing slop in the valve train hence the ticking. Usually in the beginning they will tick only when first started then progressively tick longer and longer after start up until they either completely fail and/or the push rod mushrooms and your valve train begins to self-destruct. Fortunately for you again this is a fairly cheap repair job if done yourself, a bit more if done at a shop. The lifters are only a few bucks each, its advisable to replace all 16 lifters at the same time since its likely several others or all are close behind the failed one. If you replace the failed lifters at least make sure you also replace the push rod for the effected lifters. Even a little mushrooming of the push rod will cause valve train geometry problems and possibly oiling problems and premature failure of new components.

broski

just an update:

when i turn my car off now, i get a pretty good amount of white smoke coming from the passenger side of the motor. its a good amount. doesnt smell odd. its white. doesnt smell like oil.

god can i get this fixed? its bugging the HELL out of me...

RS-Chevy-SS

Dont whine so much lol my 89 RS 5.0 does the same thing itll let out a puff of smoke when sitting for about an hour or two only on startup then it goes away. My smoke is also white not blue but it is indeed my valve guides leaking I have to keep adding oil which can be costly since i run synthetic only. Ill eventually fix it but just letting you know i feel your pain...Nothing like getting out of the movies with everyone looking at your nice car and then you start her and BOOM!!!! You smoke em all out lol

broski

UPDATE:

ok the white smoke from the engine wasnt actually a bad gasket or a need for a valve cover seal..

turns out it was just a hose that was leaking antifreeze onto the gaskets and then evaporating.

we just fixed the hose and boom, its all better

but the exhaust still smokes when starting it up. i assume its the oil getting to my exhausts but how do i stop that?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

My GTA has done the start-up puff since I bought it a year ago. A bud of mine's did it for YEARS. I'm not concerned about mine.

Jay

iTrader: (2)

My old IROC did that.. still does actually, just my friend owns it now It's got like 230,000 miles on the engine and runs fine.

Banger

My 88 RS does the same (white smoke) thing. Everyone said valve seals, so I had them replaced and it did not fix the problem at all. I do not believe the white smoke is oil.

I now suspect a small coolant leak somewhere, but diagnosis is tricky. Even my Chev specialist mechanic is stumped.

I have read a lot of white smoke reference on this site, but no-one seems to have a definitive reason. Most people just put up with it.

Wadebryant

For internal coolant leaks, check the dip stick for signs of oil/water mix. If the oil on the stick looks milky or like a blended chocolate shake.. check further. Inspect the cooling system for signs of coolant loss, also check the color of the anti freeze in the radiator. It should be green not brown (unless it's full of rust or oil & anti freeze).

A blown head gasket will tell on itself and you should see white smoke out the tail pipe all of the time. Plus, you'll be using and loosing coolant and most likely the motor will probably run hot.

Very common; Worn valve seals will let oil seap down into the combustion chambers when the motor is shut off. The oil will be burnt when the motor is started, smokey exhaust. The same thing is happening while the motor is running, you just dont see the same amount of accumulated oil burn all at once. Keep an eye on your oil level, add as needed.

As mentioned, the tapping lifter is worn and the noise goes away when it gets enough oil pressure to take up the wear. The bad side to this is that your cam is suffering. A rebuild or replacement of the worn parts should be on your to do list very soon.

Good luck and welcome to TGO.

hgffrank

Any reputable tech should be capable of diagnosing smoke from the exhaust. If not, then I'd be finding a new tech to work on my car.

Seems most tech's these days have their thumb's up their kazoo's. so hard to find a good one. I gave up on them years ago, and just fix my own stuff. But fortunately for me I am a technician. Most people are just kinda stuck having to deal with the crappy tech's or trying to find a good one.(good luck)

but just a comment: when my 90 305 smoked at start up, I drove it another 60,000 miles before I finally fixed it, so other than the embarrassment, its not a big deal.

I think I paid less than $15 for the valve stem seal kit so its an easy/cheap fix.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

What's involved in putting new seals in? I assume just pulling the valve covers, pulling the rocker arms, the springs, putting new seals in, the reversing everything, besides getting the valves adjusted right.

Banger

I think what you have said is basically correct. But they use pressurised air to hold the valves up while doing the job, else they may fall into the cylinders.

But note, the valve seals did not fix my white smoke problem.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, I left out the air fittings replacing the spark plugs, or air pressure to hold the valves up.

broski

how much would it be to replace a lifter? of at least to fix that tapping

hgffrank

Yes that is pretty much it. I have also jammed rope into the cylinder which also holds the valves up, but certainly the air method is much easier if you have the fitting and an air supply.

What I suggest is that you have another person start the engine while you wait at rear of car. get a good whif or the smoke. if its sweet smelling AT ALL then its a coolant problem. If it smells burnt then its oil. Also when I first started noticing the puff of smoke I thought it was white but when I looked really good I noticed a blue tinge and the smell was an oily burnt smell. the bigger the leak the bluer the color.

One thing I noticed that I missed somehow is that you say it happens after the car has been ran, shut off and sat for a short time. In this situation I am going to say it may be caused by worn valve guides. If this is the problem then replacing only the seals wont fix the problem, and the valve guides need repair or replacement. If the engine only puff's white smoke after its sat for extended periods then its usually just the seals.

If you think its coolant getting into the chambers then you would normally have an overheating condition or coolant level that goes down without any sign of external leak. So if your coolant level is staying full and your not overheating, then I doubt its a coolant issue. My bet would be on the valve guides and/or seals. You can check the coolant system by installing a pressure tester and pumping up the system to the systems normal operating pressure, then wait 5 minutes and check reading, if it dropped a lot then you have a leak somewhere, if it dropped a small amount then pump it back up and recheck in 5 minutes, if it dropped again then you have a leak, if it stayed up the second time then you dont have a leak. I advise this test be done when engine is cold AND hot due to the expansion and contraction or components and the possibility that a seal or gasket may leak only when hot or when cold but not both. If you perform this test cold and hot and no pressure drop occurs then you can be sure that the smoke is caused by oil getting past valve seals and guides.

CAUTION: when performing a pressure test on a hot engine I advise you to install pressure tester before warming up engine or else you will probly get the crap burnt out of yourself when you remove the cap. Just shut off engine when it reaches operating temp or when near normal operating pressure. If near normal pressure is not achieved then you have a leak somewhere.

hgffrank

lifter cost depends on year, the older flat tappet type are cheap. I paid about $4 each for mine for my 83 LG4 305, but the newer roller types are $10 to $15 each. I cant remember off the top of my head, but I think 87 up are hydraulic roller engines. If I'm wrong someone please correct me on the year they were changed.

I suggest that if lifters are replaced, then the pushrods should also be changed and rockers inspected and replaced if damaged. Many times when the lifters have gone bad the pushrods will be damaged too.

broski

how much would that cost for a mechanic to do? i dont trust my self haha

hgffrank

Last time I looked up valve seal labor rates it was for my 90 bird(roller lifters) and the labor rate was about 4 1/2 hours just for the seals, so based on that if you know what your garage charges per hour for labor then that will give you a ballpark estimate. I havent looked the rates up for lifters but if you have the seals done at the same time then make sure they dont charge you full rate for both jobs. I would guess that lifters would add another hour or so to the job if its a carbed or tbi car, a tpi car would be more time. Removing the induction system also requires the cost of gaskets/seals, so you should plan for the cost of an intake gasket set. Also plan for push rods just in case($2 to 2.50 each), because they may be damaged too. Its also possible to have damaged rockers.

As you can see the job could get very expensive. Personally, if I had to do it again, I would just go for a complete new set of lifters, pushrods, and rockers or else you may be back in the same position again, and that sucks. Last time I replaced bad lifters only, about a year later I had another lifter go bad. I hate doing a job twice.

Honestly if you were bringing your car to me, I would replace all your lifters,pushrods, and rockers at the same time or I would refuse the job due to liability. Seals can be replaced anytime and it doesnt make any difference if all or just a few are done, but obviously all should be done or your problem probably wont go away.