aaron7

iTrader: (7)

There's a new law pending in Mass that, if passed, will ban ANY exhaust system component that raises the noise level above STOCK at ALL!!

They can't do that! In the news story about it they kept showing clips of r icers... maybe that's the problem?

One of the interviewees said that "people with loud exhaust tend to go faster all the time to make as much noise as possible"

If this passes, what are the odds that the state is going to pay for all our cars to be put back to stock? What about all the labour and parts costs that we paid???



What to do? (besides move to New Hampshire... I will in a few years, but I'm milking this live off the parents thing as long as possible lol)

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

They better outlaw corrosion as well. That can make "stock" systems louder. You may want to have this moved to your regonal forum.

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

thats what the law in illinois says. first time i got the car running today. hooker longs tubes, 2.5 catcos, x pipe, and 3 in bullets. sounds ****ing sick. too loud for my tastes, but the 3 cops i passed in a few miles didnt even follow to run plates or anything

nick418

wtf?! i live in Mass, i havent herd that law yet. Even tho the give us big fines and headaches. Where did you find this info Aarron?

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

It was on both Channel 7 news and Fox25.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

SEMA is dealing with that in several states.

A classic example of a) Not policing ourselves; and, b) over-reaction that attacks the symptoms instead of the problem itself.

As Paul Harvey says, "Self government without self discipline won't work." (or something to that effect.)

nolanr0413

you know how you fix that , get hedders and have a crappy cat back so it stays quiet and then put an electric cutout b4 the cat . That will fix em . Stock sounding and then flick the switch and it sounds like nascar.

nick418

LOUD PIPES! SAVE LIVES!

mdricken

It must have been that liberal *** John Kerry mother ****er who started the law!!!!!!!!

I swear - if I lived in Taxachussetes, I would head strait for the border on my 18th birthday. What a crock!

josh1988

so is this gonna happen or what? whens the vote on it or whatever?

Tom91Bird

iTrader: (5)

There is a similiar law here in FL that says that your exahaust may not be modified to be louder then originally equipted from the factory. NOW....I've never had to face this (came close once), and I'm not sure about how the Mass. Law will read, but I think there is a loop hole in the law. As mentioned before, exhaust rusts and aftermarket exhaust companies sell there stuff as bolt in O.E replacement. So there is a difference between "moddified" and "replacement". Now all you long tube dual guys, I don't know what to tell ya.

Tom

nick418

Mass sucks, I got pulled over a few times. And i never even drive my car that much

mdricken

In the end it's all about what the cops WANT to enforce. I mean take a look at all the harleys that rattle **** off your walls when they go by!

I'm sure there are noise laws in almost every state preventing you from having anything louder than stock. But in the end, it's not going to matter until a cop actually takes the initiative to pull you over. And he isn't going to pull you over when you sound like 80% of the other cars out there with modified exhaust. He's only going to pick on the excessively loud ones.

I think the reason harleys get away with being so loud is because EVERY one of them is that loud - when was the last time you saw a quiet harley.

1BadThirdgen

Your not straight are you?

For someone who is, we learn how to spell it.....

You must have went to the same school as Bush........

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

Wow, I wish we could all afford Yale AND Harvard... seriously, get the facts first

JMD83

This is ridiculous... If this law were to be passed then what is next? No distracting paint jobs... No cars faster than they were stock because you might drive fast... I guess my good old state of MA realy knows how to screw things up for everyone due to the actions of a limited few! The really loud exhausts out there right now are all those mini-me speed bike wanna-be things and the motorized scooters. Those things are annoying. They are great to get around the track, or in a specified area, but there are way too many morons who basically commute using those miniature terrors around here. I'm surprised there haven't been numerous deaths from accidents with larger real vehicles. Thank goodness the winter is coming... (I never thought I'd ever say that!)
On a side note, This one cop in my area used to always pull me over for going 5MPH over, give me written warnings and suggest that I "get my muffler fixed" because it sounds like I was going 100MPH. I guess he couldn't see the two mufflers under the car...

91formulaSS

John Kerry went to the same school as Bush.

And to keep this on topic.........Mass sucks.......

I heard another rumor, that they are having so many problems with the new emissions tests that they are scapping that whole thing. I wish. :lala:

JMD83

I just wish that the cutoff were still 15 years or older. This 1983 and back only cr@p is just not cool. If it were still the 15 years deal both my 1984 Trans Am and my newly aquired 1986 Monte Carlo SS would pass inspection with flyiing colors!

mdricken

Um, if I wasn't strait I would be the one voting for J ****ing Kerry.

More regulations lead to ****tier places to live (Mass, DC, etc). And we all know what party stands for TIGHTER regulations... John Kerry's party the Democrats! How many times does history have to repeat itself...

91formulaSS

Right on brother. How's that ZZ4 engine treatin ya? I want to do that swap too, but the tree huggin liberals here in MA want to take away all my fun. total

mdricken

Wow that must SSSUUUCCKKKK living there having the MOST liberal, governtment loving senator in congress. I feel for ya man.

The ZZ4 swap is awesome - I HIGHLY recommend it. It was swapped in one weekend and drivable in 2 weekends. It went really smooth and the thing has AWESOME torque now. Total cost is about $4k for the engine, carb and miscellaneous stuff.
As far as emissions, I dont know how to get around that - there are no emissions laws here in IA. I think if I was you I'd move to another state.

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

I agree... can't wait to move to NH!!

Also, I too heard that since there are so few up-to-date emission testing places in MA (since the new law, nearly no place can do the testing!!!), they will be scraping it in January 05 and it will take some time to re-think it all or something like that.

91formulaSS

Hey, we did elect a Republican Gov. and trust me, we here in Mass have had 20 years to get to know (hate) John F 'in Kerry and his older brother (Teddy) in the senate. the rest of the country has only had 1-2 years.

But I digress

Anywho, what carb did you go with for that ZZ4? I think I can get by on emissions if I keep the cat and don't go too crazy with the carb. I have to get a new cat everytime I go for emissions as it is. My tired 182,000 mile L03 eats 5 quarts of oil in between changes and last time I had to get it re tested 5 times before I passed. I think a new crate engine (even with with a carb) will burn cleaner.

As far as moving to another state. I live on the border of NH and have contemplated making the leap many times. But my G/F doesn't like NH for some reason. (the drivers there are A-holes)

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

I as well live right on the border (like, 5min) and I think that the drivers there are way better than here!! Also, everyone I have met from up there is so much nicer and more willing to help. I dunno... someday

mdricken

I used the Holley Street Avenger 670cfm vacuum secondary carb. I found one that was opened and never used on ebay for about $250 or so. Also had to buy the $75 fuel pressure regulator from Summit for $80 because I had TBI.

It would be nice to have a 750cfm double pumper but I can get 22mpg on the highway with the 670.

And since we are on the emissions topic, I always wondered if it would pay to swap in a newer emissions compliant 4 banger into your car just to pass emissions for one day. It would be a weekend long swap in/swap out but when finished you could cruize around with whatever motor you want. Have any of you guys in those emissions states every thought of doing this??

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

I bolted my cat back in for the testing once... didn't work though! I found a guy that passed me by putting a giant fan in front of my car, putting the hose thing only halfway on, and running the test like 6 times lol

nick418

oh great now political war

josh1988

yes, its been thought of, but at least in my state, if a cop has half a brain and figures it out, its like a $25,000 fine.

chio987

i used to work at a chrysler dealership and they had sooo many problems with the new emissions machine (the ODB, not the tailpipe) and they kept running into problems with working on a car with the battery disconnected and then u can't run the test...the dam things need to have like 100 miles on them and it wastes the tech's time. so they end up sending the person home and they get pissed.....i hope they stop the new test...but then again it's only for cars like 96+ i think..sooo o well

91formulaSS

Not in Mass. I think it's like '83 or something rediculous like that.

chio987

r we talking about the same machine??? all they do is plug into the diagnostics port and start the car...then it just reads all the sensors...but in an 83 what would it read??? the O2...i can't really think of anything else off the top of my head... i just know they don't do the tailpipe with 96+ cars anymore (i'm not sure if it's 96+ )

91formulaSS

In MA they put your car on the dyno, and run it up to 35 mph. while checking the emissions out the tailpipe the whole way.

If your car came from the factory with some form of emissions control equipment, they expect you to pass.

JeffW

had my sticker done in july on my p/u and they told me all are cars are exempt from emisions this year since there are problmes with the systems. now CT has scrapped there system i think for the second time as it was not reading correct and failing cars that would of passed.

as for who posted this bill i would like to see a link for it, as for john kerry he will get my vote cause with bush all he does is maintian his own adjenda and not ours. did you watch the debates ? what a babbling fool. why do we still have our boys and girls getting killed in iraq? why is the nations deficite 100 times higher than when clinton left office. and the most important part to remember if florida could use a voting machine gore would be president right now and if nader would not run gore would of been president. oh well who like politics any way.

nick418

yea and mass elects a senator thats a murder (kennedy) Mass always sucked period

mdricken

But how is the cop going to know your V8 didn't pass emissions? He isn't going to question your motor if you make it look half way stock in the first place. And even if he does suspect it, legally he coudnt prove it unless the emissions stickers put the Engine VIN on them. AND if they did, he'd have to crawl under the car to find the engine VIN - that would make it worth it right there!

josh1988

ok well first of, at least in ma, most emissions places, toss your hood up, and they do check your vin, so there may be a question or two if your supposed v8 suddenly has a 4 banger (not sure if there is a legality issue here) Also, again, at least in MA, you'd be surprised how much the cops, at least state troopers, know about cars, and you'd also be surprised to know how often they will check vins, its random, but i've seen it done twice. So i mean, if you went out of your way to make everything looks stock, you could probably get away with it, but if your exhaust is a tad too loud and the statie decides he wants you to pop your hood, most are gonna know that you shouldn't have two 4 barrels under the hood of your 92 camaro. Although, i think the cop looking under your hood follows the same rules as him looking in your trunk, so i suppose you could avoid it, but regardless, there's always a chance... then suddenly you can get smacked with that 25,000 dollar fine again. oh and obviously, im exxagerating on that number, but enviornmentally illegal stuff in MA will get you crazy fines. fines that are not worth taking any chances.

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

I don't think the cops or the inspection place decode the VIN, they just make sure it matches the registration.

josh1988

im really not sure about the cops, but the inspection places must, how else would they know which engine your car origninally came with and what your emissions levels should be?

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

They don't. No inspector has ever looked at my VIN or opened my hood. Maybe it's part of the registration number (from the title, might be in the system) but as far as I've encountered... it could be a rotaty for all they care, as long as you pass!

91formulaSS

I own 3 cars. I've gone to many different inspection stations. And I've never once had the tech open my hood to make sure the engine matches the VIN on the dash board, or for any other reason. If the VIN says V8 the expect you to pass for V8 emmision levels, they don't go under you car and check the engine VIN and make sure your numbers match. LOL

josh1988

of course they dont make sure your numbers match... only the fbi does that. When you run a vin(or in an inspectors case, when you run a registration), it gives you the engine that should be in the car, not the ACTUAL engine, just whether it is a 4 banger a 6, or an 8. You could easily switch from a 305 to a 350 and get away with it. But good luck getting away with switching from a tpi setup on a late model thirdgen to a dual carb setup or anything crazy(not that your vin has much to do with this, but if the guy isn't a moron, he's gonna know that if you have a 91 camaro, it should be fuel injected), that was my point. thats it. Because regardless of whether it passes, it is still illegal in MA, Im sure there are plenty of inspectors who will let it slide, but its still illegal to do.

91formulaSS

My 91 TBI 305 would look identical to a carbed 350 w/ the air cleaner on.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I wanted to respond to a few of the rumors here.

First of all I'm a Police Officer in Mass. Some of you know me off line, others, well hello!


Rumor #1:

In regards to the pending bill, it would outlaw the sale and installation of aftermarket exhaust components. This is at the retail level. Basicly, it would mean your only limitted to purchase OEM replacement exhaust components.

The Bill IMO is crap, and won't pass.

Now the bad news is, aftermarket exhaust is and has been allready illegal in Mass.

The citation is a 90-16, and is $50. The text is as follows:

"No person shall use a muffler cut-out or by-pass. No person shall operate a motor vehicle on any way which motor vehicle is equipped (1) with a muffler from which the baffle plates, screens or other original internal parts have been removed and not replaced; or (2) with an exhaust system which has been modified in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the exhaust."

I've spoken with a lot of Officers on this. The general "opinion" is, if the car is slightly louder and driven normally, don't cite.

If your holding the pedal to 7k in first gear with a fart pipe, and can be heard from 3 blocks away - your getting pulled over.


Rumor #2:

Emissions. Tampering with emissions system is prosecuted by the EPA, not municipal Police. If you see a green truckwith blue/red lights following you around, get worried.

If you FAIL emissions in Mass, you have 60 days to fix it. If you don't, the state IS stating to suspend registrations now.

Rumer #3:

The IM242 emissions testing units have issues. It's a 50/50 that you'll pass. The state is working on replacing the defective units. If you failed an emissions test, goto another station and try again.

Rumer #4:

You can upgrade your motor, you just have to pass emissions. They do check if the engine is there. Federal law states you can upgrade a motor in a passenger vehicle, as long as the new motor was designed fro the same class vehicle, for the same year or future year of mfg. Basicly, this means any 88 or newer vehicle must have a fuel injected motor from a car, that passes emissions. Pre 88 vehicles can have a Carb that is emissions legal.

For example: you can transplate an LS1 into your '88 V6 Camaro. Infact, your emissions will prolly be better.

My Supercharged 355 scores so low on the emissions test it's not even funny. Just cuz somethings fast, doesn't mean it won't pass a sniffer. It's all about tuning.


If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to ask me.


-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

It's actually illegal federally to put a carb on any car mfg after 1987.

-- Joe

chio987

anesthes, here in pittsburgh, PA if u drive less than 5k miles a year, u r emissions exempt from the sniffer and visual inspection. so they say i need it and it needs to work, but yet no one can fail it for not working (bcuz they can't do a sniffer test) or fail it for not being there (bcuz they don't check for it) so i mean it's really messed up. do u have anything like that in mass?? if so, what do u guys do about that...

i also got all the info from PENNdot and DriveCleanPA EP so i know it's right. it's just odd.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Anything MFG year 1983 or older is exempt from emissions testing, however, the inspection station is suposed to fail you if an emissions component is obviously deleted.

I've always praised the PA rule on this. It's a really nice benefit to folks who build a hot rod, but don't use it as aprimary vehicle.

I think a minimal use vehicle, such as a hotrod should be exempt from exhaust and emissions requirements.


-- Joe

91formulaSS

anesthes,
Are they supposed to do a visual check of your emissions equipment in MA? Last year my firebird failed 4 times befor I changed the cat and passed and no one ever even opened my hood.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Suposed to, yes. But its becomes hard to prove.

If the Cat is missing, thats an obvious one.

You can delete the air injection, and run an emissions control system from a late model car that doesn't use air injection, and be in compliance.

If you get a failure sticker, just goto another station. Not everyone has a clue in life. If they were legal experts, they wouldn't be working at Midas.


-- Joe

josh1988

Thank you Joe. I knew I had the jist of it, i just was unaware of the specifics.

josh1988

Also, I was aware of the aftermarket exhaust already being illegal in MA, I had a very nice state trooper explain it to me one night at about 3 in the morning after he had pulled me over (it was understandable, it was that time of night and I had 3 other kids in my camaro) I wasn't speeding or anything, he was more or less checking on how sober i was i guess, but he made a comment on my flowmaster american thunder exhaust being illegal, so i asked him to explain. Anyways, my question is, doesn't flowmaster market their stuff as being 50 state legal? I know my edelbrock headers say 50 state legal right on them and they came with a c.a.r.b. certificate that i carry around in my car. I beleive that is the case, and if im correct, how do they get away with that?