SeanTimothy

ok, i saw some stupid kit that lets you do this for 125 bucks. im assuming this is bs and you can do it the same way with 2 coils, two plugs, and some wire and a switch.

my question here is, Can this in any way lead up the exhaust and harm the engine or ignite some sort of deposits in the mufflef and cause an explosion of any sort.

if not, does anyone know a way to do it without the kit

txhotRS

to do it without the kit... you will need
1-bottle of propain, w/ nozzle and hoze
2-a match
3-smaller brains than *****
4-either way... it's not a very good idea
.... yes, it could ignite the baffling in the mufflers if your exit pipes are short, also, the fuel system could leak... and ignite the entire rear end of your car... which is where the gas tank is... = NOT GOOD

SeanTimothy

well my exhaust tips are about 2 1/2 feet long.......maybe 2 feet...not sure....in any event i decided against it due to the fact that it only shoots the flame when you let off the gas... at least the ones in the demo mpeg's did. thats just...gay.

txhotRS

well, either way, it would be interesting, not nesicarily safe, but fun

SeanTimothy

oh definatly lmao.....id either melt m bumper, blow my muffler off, get a ticket, blow my car up, or hurt someone.....or all of the above

Stingraye

well i'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do the setup with a coil, wire and plug threaded into the exhaust just short of the tips. I'm not using propane or nitrous or anything crazy like that (i'm not trying to kill my self here), but I've talked to a lot of techs, and have a very good idea of how to do it correctly and get a decent 2-3 ft flame from the pipes, should be sweet, i'll probably be doing it in a week and a half, so I'll let u know what happens.

SeanTimothy

how do you plan on making the spark pulse...cause i think the muffler will pretty much explode if the spark doesnt pulse....

Stingraye

Well that's what everyone I have talked to (professional technicians, and people on here alike) have said to use. Just take a junky ign coil from a car and just run it to a plug whereas it would go to a distributor. I don't see how it would make the muffler explode if it was just a solid spark though, what makes you think it would do that??

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

i think that its that the flame would be able to spread from the end of the tip and burn fumes that havnt yet made it to the tip, and that would continue into the muffer maybe and just burn things up. Get some vids though....definatly...lol

SeanTimothy

i dunno, im real cautious about blwoing off a muffler thats directly under a gas tank.....im just going by what others have told me on here, im not the flamethrower expert by far lol...i just thought the pulse allowed for it not to lead back by cutting the spark intervals.

and wouldnt it eventually weld the plug gap togather if it was a steady spark?? i dunno....

Stingraye

Well, as far as that goes, the whole instance of the hairspray and the lighter comes to mind. If you take a can of hair spray and hold a lighter 6 inches in front of it and spray the can, what happens? It becomes a flame of hairspray from the lighter out, and the flame dosn't travel backwards into the can because the force of the hairspray is all going away from the can. So I would think that doing this with your exhaust would have to be pretty much the same result, and the car is pushing all of the exhaust out of the system.

That is a good point, but you have to remember, how long are you going to have the system hot to throw flames? 5 second, 10 seconds? 15 at most, doing that once a week tops isn't really going to weld a plug gap shut too quickly. But I'm still doing some homework on some other things first to make sure I have it all down before I wire this all up and try it out. Any other pointers or suggestions are welcome.

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

ya still do that? hmm...i'm thinking ghetto flame thrower mod here.....
Just put a few cans of Lycol or bug spray or something upside down by the mufflers and just push a button to have them start spraying, then just take a match back there and POOF! GHETTO FLAME THROWER!

But yeah you did make a fairly good point about it going away from it.....

Rage13

i do hope you know its not to good for your motor, those kits just kill the spark to some of the plugs and allow unburnt fuel to travel down and out your tail pipes.. and i hope your tips are way out behind your rear, nothing like a melted bumper and paint to ruin your day

posbird87

i think he was talkin about the kit that uses a bottle of propane to burn instead of cutting the spark off from your engine.

id use a kit like that only if i had side pipes mmmmmm fried r!ce

SeanTimothy

see i thought about that, but have you ever stuck a dollar bill over your tail pipes --dont ask why i did-- it about sucks the doller bill into the pipe....its not a steady constant force like a can of hair spray....

Stingraye

To clear up some confusion, here is what I am planning to do. I'm not buying a kit or anything, everyone I have talked to has told me the easiest way to do this, i'm not looking to spend a lot of money, or have to do anything crazy, or risk messing up my engine, I just wanna have a nice lil 2ft flame upon command. So what I am going to do is wire up an ignition coil from like a toyota or something, and have it's power supply running through a switch. The top of the coil will go directly onto a sparkplug wire, whcih will lead to a spark plug threaded into my exhaust about a ft short of the tips (which do stick out about 2-3 in past the bumper), so that when I throw the switch, the coil has power and sends a spark to the plug in the tail pipe which will ignite the rich fumes left over in the exhaust, beacuse I know my car is running plenty rich enough. No killing the spark to the engine and dumping raw fuel, don't need HUGE flames, nor do I wanna replace my rings, I just want a nice lil flame, and eveyone i've talked to says that this setup will work just fine. Hope that clears up what I have in mind.

IEatRice4dinner

hell ya:hail:

MrDude_1

you might want to hook up a button instead of a switch..

then you can pulse the spark by tapping the button.

SX Stinger

Sean

The way you thought is the best way to do it. My dad has it rigged that way on his 63 Chevy. It looks good and draws a crowd. The flame will be put out if it ever goes into exhaust Those fumes are carbon monoxide not oxgen so the fire suffocates and dies. Never had that happen in 15 years on my dads truck




Drew

SX Stinger

sean also on my dads truck they shoot out whe n you step on the gas. ( his is a four on the floor)
1. Flip switch to arm coils
2.Put in neutral
3. rev up to 3-4K
4.turn ingnition off step on gas and vuala FLAMES!!!!


His is hooked up to his fuel pump and the flames are fueled by raw fuel. A mechanicl fuel pump continues to pump fuel after engine is turned off as long as you continue to press the gas pedal so he pushes raw fuel through the exhaust and it hits the plugs and presto! However if you have fuel injection it will only work when you let off the gas.



Drew

LedZep

iTrader: (22)

I dont think your left over exhaust isnt gonna be flammable enough to do it. Most guys who do this have a seperate fuel cell in the trunk just to do this. Unless you can choke the car or you are running way to rich you wont get any flame at all.

Trans_AM_88

is it really THAT bad to dump raw fuel into a cylinder? are there any readings or articiles to back it up?

Stingraye

Well, If it doesn't work just running it regularly, my 700 Holley is a manual choke, so I can just choke it and rev it up, and that should give me enough fuel left over to burn a lil bit.

Well I don't know about any articles, but I work at a pontiac dealership in the mornings, and everyone i've talked to says that if you do this more than like a dozen times, you have to pull the engine apart and re-ring it, because when you dump raw fuel into the cylinder it just destroys the rings, so i'm not trying to do that at all.

Trans_AM_88

hmm. thats odd because got flames sells a flame thrower kit that kills the coil and dumps raw fuel into the cylinders..how can they sell that? sure they could just not care about what heppens to the customers' cars, but still, only a dozen dumps and you need new rings? i think every single person who bought those kits (and similar ones) would need new rings...

fyrechikyn

dumping raw fuel into your cylinders washes off the protective oil coatings on the cylinder walls and tears up your rings

Trans_AM_88

well technically theres raw fuel in your cylinders from the time it gets sprayed in until the plug ignites...sure its only a split second, but it happens over and over again thousands of times.

SeanTimothy

as many of times as ive had to limp home due to a burnt plug wire....and no spar was going to that cylinder......my rings didnt get fried.....i would think the fuel that gets thrown into the headers would ignite seeing how they are what....at least 500 degrees.....i dont see how the heat doesnt ignite the gas as it hit them.....

Trans_AM_88

im pretty sure its gotta be hotter than that to light up the gas...but even so...these flame thrower kits taht disable the coil would NOT work if the headers are so hot that they ignite the fuel

SeanTimothy

wait, did you just say my heads wouldnt be hot for the 5 seconds im not igniting the fuel in the cylinder? uhhhhh you obviously never tried to work on a car that had been driven all day and has sat for 15 mins.... --spits on header--- *sizzle sizzle* better yet....if thats the case i wanna know why ive seen engines catch on fire VIA faulty fuel line....and the fuel ignites off of the manifold

Trans_AM_88

wtf?

I never said anything remotely close to that. I said IM PRETTY SURE (hint hint "PRETTY SURE" doesn’t mean it’s engraved in rock and is a proven fact) that the HEADERS (no, not heads) aren’t hot enough to ignite fuel thrown into the headers. But that's where I left it. I didn’t go into detail since I was only PRETTY SURE. So I went on to say that IF it was true (raw fuel would ignite when it gets thrown into the piping hot headers) then how could one possibly sell kits to thousands of people and still be in business? According to that statement, the fuel would’ve been ignited way before it even got to the tips hence there’s nothing to ignite when the spark plug in the tips fire...

dennis6

I would find a 555 timer circuit to control the coil spark. You could have the timer turn the coil on and off rapidly and vary that timing with a pot.

That being said, you somehow would want a fuel line injecting fuel into your exhaust after your muffler and the spark plug after the muffler. You do not want unburnt fuel being pumped through your engine.

Finally, this is a good way to get blown up.

Trans_AM_88

how can someone sell such a kit thats so unsafe?

dennis6

You can sell unsafe kits, by using disclaimers.

SeanTimothy

some of the kits i read claimed to not kill the spark going to the engine at all....said that there was enough fuel left over after combustion to ignite out the tips.....i like the idea of a variable timer though. thats a good way to get the spark to pulse....im about to see if the spark will ignite anythig out the exaust without having to cut the spark to the engine.....

Trans_AM_88

so what about the people out there whos spark plugs no longer spark, or the ones whos spark plug wires burned. theyve had cylinders not firing for a decent amount of time...are their engines shot?

SX Stinger

Hello, I am Sx stinger's Dad, Let me clear this up. First of all, I have had flame throwers, or afterburners, on my truck since I was in high school, back in the late '70's, early '80's. I learned to do it from my dad who did it back in the 1950's. I am using a model T coil. The model T coil has a set of points that vibrate and continuously re-charge the coil. A standard coil is just a capacitor and will store energy just for one spark when it is grounded, or discharged.
Anyhow, the coil is wired to a switch and then back to 2 spark plugs about a foot from the end of the pipe.
The way to get this to work is to either rev the engine up, or just leave it in gear and coast if you are already moving.

You turn on the afterburner coil, then kill the ignition, the engine will continue to spin and pump raw fuel out the tailpipes. The raw fuel is ignited as it leaves the pipe, mashing on the gas pedal fuels the fire.
OK, now, On newer vehicles, this is hard to do, for this particular system to work, you must have a manual transmission, carb, manual fuel pump, and a non-locking steering column.
so that rules out anything built after about 1973.
Yes the gas will wash the cylinders, but i had this system on my truck for over 10 years on the same engine, and rebuilt it after the cam wore out, with NO MEASUREABLE WEAR ON THE CYLINDERS. Still good after the last rebuild 5 years ago.

basicaly the engine is an air pump when you kill the spark, so all the gas WILL be pumped out the back, also, when fuel burns out of a pipe it causes a vacuum and sucks the air OUT of the pipe, and cannot go back down the pipe.

The reason you can't do it on you newer vehicles is, first when you turn the key off, you won't be able to steer, secondly, the electric fuel pump will shut off (no gas), and it is a very bad idea to drive an engine through an automatic tranny as in coasting in gear.


It all can be done with some of the newer kits out there, auto-loc has a kit. But they key here is a constant spark from a re-chaging coil, similar to a stun-gun.

I love it when some idiot gets on my butt and I have to flame him with 8 ft flames at 70 mph. Good luck with your projects.

Trans_AM_88

well then GotFlames? and similar kits seem to be safe for engines

Keith_Indy

Here's the got flames basic kit. They don't guarantee it will work with cat converters...

http://www.gotflames.net/hypercart/p...?Sku=Flame+Kit

http://www.gotflames.net/hypercart/faq.asp#45

Sure would be cool though...

Trans_AM_88

correct. but other than that, it should work on most vehicles. they aslo claim that it doesnt hurt engines at all

FastBack

is there anyway to get this done with an automatic, EFI engine. it seems like everyone that has done it has a manuel, carbed engine. i think it would be tight to get this done on my car.

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

I dont know why it wouldnt work with an automatic.....from the way it looks, what you want to do is ignite the flame as the rev's are dropping....so if you have the car in neutral, rev it up to a few thousand RPM's, then just push the button and let off the gas it would be the same as if you were using a manual tranny.....or if you were cruising along and decided to show off a little bit and just get the rev's way up there, ignite the exhaust and let off the gas for a few seconds.....
I've been doing some research on this while i've been away from Thirdgen.org and the reason its easy to do on carb'd cars is that you can just push alot of fuel into the engine without the spark plug igniting it.......with EFI the computer controls the amount of fuel into the engine, and its goal is to use as little gas as possible to be more economical, where as with a carb its totally up to you.....you wanna push more gas than can be ignited into the engine and get 2 MPG, thats your call....but with EFI its a little more tricky.
I've talked to the guys at Got Flames and they say it will work so yeah

SX Stinger

Okay as I have said before My dad has it set up on his 63 chevy truck. It DOES NOT do damage as long as you can read directions or use common sense. They do sell kits that do it. How do you think they got it to work in 2fast2furious???? So by establishing that several cars with fuel injection and automatic in the movies can do it so can you, just depends on the size of your wallet and how big you want the flame. I mean come on why put it in the movie if all the Nopi ricers can't put it on their car, I mean this movie sells a bunch of stick on crap so why cant it sell something that actually functions??? Speeding penguin the new kits you may have to let the rpm drop before igniting but on the truck I have ( my dad's ) you have 1. flip the switch turning on the coil and arming the system. 2. put in in nuetral( 4 speed manual). 3. rev engine and turn key off and badda bing you have flames old lady behind you freaks out and swerves off road. It is easier with carb and mechanical fuel pump because when you turn off the ignition the pump still draws gas for a few seconds , harder with fuel injection because once the ignition is off it is off no more fuel from the pump but it can be done.. Oh and as a side note I DO NOT GET 2 MPG . I am pulling down 18 MPG and do it at least 10 times a day to the unsuspecting fools tailgating me. My two cents take it or leave it.
Drew

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

lol sorry man...i wasnt serious with the 2MPG....but what i was trying to say was that with a carb you could set the carb so rich that most of the fuel wouldnt be able to completly burn.......if ya left it that way, lemme take a good guess......bad gas mileage? haha

Stingraye

Or you could just do like what I plan on doing, which is just pulling the manual choke 2 seconds before i hit the switch to give it barely any air and a lot of fuel...

SX Stinger

Speedingpenguin, I see what you mean by the carb being set to rich at first I thought you meant just by setting that up you would use that much gas for a tiny flame, I was thinking something isnt right with that. But i understand what you are saying now with the carb running too rich. Guess the best way to do it is trial and error.



Drew

MrDude_1

wrong.


the best way is to use a lil common sence and intelligence. and thats somthing this thread is severely lacking



the only one in this thread that even mildly seems to know how these things work is SX Stinger's dad.... and even then, hes doing the classic hot rodders approch. effective and cool, but IMO not the best method for FI cars. i prefer the self contained propane setup..


the main reason people dont tell other people how they do it isnt to hide it.... its because of other, stupider people trying to copy them. noone wants to be responcable for getting someone hurt.. so being able to know whats going on and do it yourself is a kind of prerequisite to doing it.


anyhoo, here are some vids of a thirdgen with flamethrowers. (not mine)

http://venomavenger.gq.nu/TORCH/Torch.html

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

Good link, good vids :-D
Yeah, maybe trial and error isnt the BEST way to go.....and no, most of us are not experts on flame-throwing, but we're just tossing around different ideas....not saying its the definate way to go....

Z28GEN3

I like that idea better, I still may tr this after i get the beast running.

FastBack

Mr_dude1, where did you get that kit from?

MrDude_1

there are no complete kits.



heres a hint to what im doing:
THIS plus THIS equals THIS

with ofcourse the proper saftey equipment. (regulator, backup valves, proper ventilation, window switch, ect )