m300slr

iTrader: (4)

I am looking to buy a new converter for my car and dont know what the best type to buy is. Currently I have a 3" system w\ a flomaster, and the converter has been drilled through. So basically I have no converter. If you could tell me what type of converters any of you recomend I would greatly appriciate it.
Thanks,
Rob

25THRSS

catco direct fit

89IRO

Carsound (magnaflow) 3" in/out. That's what I got, and have no complaints. Just don't get one of those Random Tech ones, I hear they are WAY overpriced. -89IRO

25THRSS

Random tech metallic series is by far the best flowing cat you can buy, but to the best of my knowledge they do not make a direct fit cat for our cars. Overpriced, probably, but are they the best and highest flowing, yes!

89IRO

----Overpriced, probably, but are they the best and highest flowing, yes!

NO! A cat. is a cat. my friend. Don't let the advertising get to you. Of course they can make their cat. all shiny all call it the "highest flowing" and put a high price on it. And I don't think you even need a direct fit cat. converter, just get a universal 3" in/out and you'll be fine. m300- just go with a carsound or catco, you'll be happy. -89IRO

jfreeman74

Car-Sound flow just as good if not better and they cost about 25% of what a Random Tech cost. Don't get me wrong I like the quality of Random Tech. I have there Catback but come on. A Hi Flow cat is a Hi Flow cat. Don't waste your money on the RT cat.

25THRSS

metallic
http://www.provenperformanceconcepts...etallicMED.jpg

ceramic
http://www.provenperformanceconcepts...CeramicMED.jpg

http://www.mdpp.bigstep.com/generic.html?pid=51

You are wrong. Just like you said a sbc is a sbc, all converters are not the same.

jfreeman74

$329.99. Those things are a bigger waste of money than I thought.

89IRO

Nope sorry, you are still wrong. I think you are getting too caught up in this advertising or something, or maybe somebody is telling you some false info. I don't know. All converters function the same and were put on this earth to do the same thing. Just read what Jfreeman74 said. Aren't you the guy that went on the oil filter rampage, to see which oil filter is number one? If so, dude, you need to relax. -89IRO

25THRSS

I guess so, seeing as how I like to put the best on my car and I don't go cheap I need to "relax." When I modify my car I do it right the first time the only time. Why go through all thr trouble to mod something if you arent going to mod it with the best and get the most gain. Makes no sense to me. Like I said, the random tech cats are expensive, but they are expensive for a reason. Because they outflow all other catalytic converters on the market. Yes, all catalytic converters were put here to do one thing, reduce emmisions, but random tech does that while not robbing hp in the process. ALL SBC's ARE NOT THE SAME JUST LIKE ALL CATALYTIC CONVERTERS ARE NOT THE SAME!

formul8!!

For longevity and flow, the CATCO is the way to go. They have a cushioning mat around the converter element to prevent it from breaking apart prematurely.

89IRO

O.K. man, believe what you want, you aren't hurting me or anyone else. I know what's right, and that's all that matters to me. I hope I didn't make it sound like I enjoy putting piece of **** parts on my car, because I didn't mean to make it sound like that. I take care of my car very well. And when you have 201,000 miles that you just turned today, you have to know what you're doing. So I think I know what I'm doing. So go ahead and believe/do what you want, your car won't hurt from it, but your wallet probably will. Oh, and if I was going to "mod" my exhaust, I would take of the cat. completely. Please don't say a random tech. cat. will outflow no cat. at all. -89IRO

25THRSS

Yes I agree with you that no cat at all will flow the best, but some people who have to deal with emmisions can't take theirs off so the best thing for power woud be to install a random tech cat for them.

89IRO

I know that, I live in So Cal and I have to test every other year. So there is no way I can take off my Cat. Anything is better than my old, stock, clogged cat. that was making me overheat. You just stick to your random tech, you should easily beat me if we drag race then, since they outflow everthing.

25THRSS

I never said a catalytic converter will cause you to win or lose a race. I simply said the random tech cats outflow everything else.

jfreeman74

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...&highlight=cat

Check these flow rates out. Keep in mind that the Random Tech with the 703000 is not commonly used because they are over $500. The 813000 is the series that is most commonly used and it is the one that was listed for $399.99 on the website posted earlier.

25THRSS

I cant see the results because I'm not registered.

89IRO

I can't see them either. Maybe you can tell us what the results are. 25- I thought you would sense the sarcasm. There were a few people on here talking about a cat. converter test, and random was one of the worst flowing. Maybe that is the same one he is talking about. Oh, and 25, the stuff we say on other posts are meant for those posts, lets not be retarded and start talking/arguing over them on a totally different post. -89IRO

jfreeman74

Here are the basics:

Catco-365cfm
Carsound-400cfm $70
Random 813000-327cfm $399.99
Random 703000-535cfm Way too damn much

89IRO

That makes me love my carsound even more. I'd still like to see the dino sheet though. I think there was another one out there that also proved random wrong. Hehe.:lala:

25THRSS

I have the 700000 series metallic cats on my LS1 which produces about 550 fwhp. They cost me $250. $500 The cheaper 810000 series is only $165.

jfreeman74

I don't care how good the 7000 series is there is no way I can get on here and recommend someone pay that that much money for a cat. I would gut the damn thing before I spent that much money on a CAT for goodness sakes. That is just rediculous. There comes a point when going for the best just isn't realistic unless you have more money than sense. Just my .02 cents. M300 it is your car and your money.

jfreeman74

That's $250 each for the small LS1 cats. It's not the same cat that goes on a 3rd gen. The 3rd gen cat is larger and more expensive. Either way, $250 is still way too much for that small of a change.

jfreeman74

Even on LS1 cars that would be $500 total. You can get 2 Car-Sound Cats for $140. I can think of a lot other things to spend $360 on other than cats.

tbfirebird

id go with carsound with the money you save you can get it welded inplace and while your there you can buy a exhaust cut-out with the extra money saved.

89IRO

Exactly. A Cut-out would be somewhat illegal here in so cal though. Still would be cool at times at a press of a button though! Hey, does anyone know how much a shop would charge to install hooker 2055s in my IROC? Today I got quoted for $65 an hour and he said it would take about 5 hours= About $325--Does this sound fair for a shop? Thanks. -89IRO

25THRSS

That doesn't sound too bad, but just do it yourself. It's not that hard and it will give you a chance to get fimiliar with your car.

m300slr

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the advice, I think that I will go with either the catco or the carsound. I dont plan on doing any racing where I will ever need the cfm of some of those other converters.

89IRO

Trust me, I'd love to do it myself, but would I need to lift the engine? If so, I don't have tools to do that. Then I would have to connect the air tubes, then I would have to take it to a shop anyways to have it welded up, and the list goes on.....Plus, I am familiar enough with my car so I don't think I need to be laying on my back putting headers in all day long. But if it comes down to it, I just may get the courage to do it myself. ****, that is gonna be one big pain in the ***.

25THRSS

It's not as bad as you think it will be. You might have to jack the engine up slightly to have enough clearance for the headers to slide in, but that is easy. Just unbolt the motor mount and put a piece of wood under the oil pan and jack it up an inch or 2 then the headers slide right in. It will prolly take the better part of a day, but in the end you will feel real good for accomplishing something like that and it will be worth it. I'm kinda weird, I'm the kind of guy who actually likes to be under the car. I could lay there all day and just look and clean things up and try to figure out what everything does, lol.

jfreeman74

I just don't like to pay someone else to do something to my car that I can do myself. I replaced my own transmission just to save $400. I have done my own headers also. Let me tell you, replacing the headers are nothing compared to replacing the transmission. What a PITA, but like 25THRSS said, it gave me a chance to get a little more familiar with the car. I had never replaced a transmission before.

tbfirebird

I thought the oil pan isnt strong enough to support the weight of the engine.

89IRO

So as far as unbolting the engine mounts, how many are there? And when I unbolt them, the engine will still be held in place right? It's not like when I un-bolt them, the engine will come crashing down? I'm pretty sure the bolts just hold it in place while the mounts cradle the engine, let me know if I'm right. O.K., then where is a good place to put the jack stands, front sway bar? Oh, and what about what tbfirebird said? Thanks. -89IRO

ctandc

On the cat converter issue...go talk to an exhaust shop...a REAL peformance exhaust shop and ask 'em about a "high flo" cat. Now one of two things is going to happen.

1. He recommends the brand he carries as a high flo cat. = profit margin.


2... and most likely. He's going to either look at you like you're an idiot or just die laughing...or both.


The difference in flow looks great on paper, but in REAL LIFE, when installed on a car, it's nothing.

The most I've ever seen from dyno runs on cat converters was going from a newer aftermarket 3" Catco or carsound ( don't remember ) to a hollowed stock cat. Result? 2 HP...


That's (2) TWO HP.....

now if you're current cat is the stock cat from the 80's....sure, you might see a bigger gain...with ANY current technology cat installed.

I always weigh ALL my performance mods on a power gained vs. $ basis.

High flow cats rank right up there with true duals on a 3rd gen. If you've got crappy exhaust now, yup, sure you'll see a gain...but in reality a true dual system on a 3rd gen has a REALLY bad $ per HP ratio, unless you weld up your own and your labor / time is free....

In a perfect world, you need 10HP to decrease your 1/4 mile ET (1) one tenth.

You do the math.

I personally don't care what other people do to their car, that's their business...it's their car and their money. But advertising and marketing, and following trends have made lots of people millions of $$$ and alot of people still looking for more power..


Just my highly inflated 2 cents.


As for header installation....

I have Hedman's. No jacking up of the motor needed. Take off old manifolds, move some stuff up front around to fit the driver's side in, and bolt 'em up. Passenger side dropped right in.


And yes, if needed, the oil pan will support the engine if you use a block of wood to distribute the weight on the metal of the pan so it doesn't collapse.


HTH

GKK

I had both Random Technologies Direct replacement high flow Cat and a Car-Sound Direct replacement Cat installed on my "91" Camaro RS.

I first put on the Random Tech Cat along with the SLP Y-Pipe and Flowmaster exhaust when I first bought my camaro and a year and a half later when I took the first smog check the car failed because of lack of back pressure for the EGR valve to work. well, before I found that out I had a smog pre-inspection done and the technician said the Cat might be bad (I doubted it) and that's when I replaced the Random Tech Cat with the Car-Sound Cat.

At the muffler shop I just told the guy that I just wanted a replacement Cat and after they were done I noticed they installed a Car-Sound Cat. I asked the guy if it was a "high flow" Cat and he said all Modern Catalytic Converters are high flow.

Well, after examining the Random Tech Cat, I saved it since it still looked brand new, I noticed that the mat inside surrounding the catalyst protrudes about 1/8" into the exhaust flow where as the Car-Sound mat is recessed flush within the converter shell.

I liked the construction of the Car-Sound Cat better because of this and it looks to me that the Car-Sound Cat is built with a higher Quality than the Random Tech cat.

Both are High Quality Cats and flow well but, Because the Random Tech cost me $279 and the Car-Sound $89 I think I'll stick with the Car-Sound.

Here's a picture showing the inside Mat construction of the Random Technologies Cat:

89IRO

Cool, thank you to everyone that makes random tech look like a waste of money, I'll stick to my carsound tool. As for headers, I know for sure I am going with jet-hot coated hooker 2055s- no question about it. I think I am going to do it myself to save all that money. I do have to admit though, it does look like an intimidating job. I think it would really help if someone could make a list and list the procedure to take of the old manifolds and install the headers. Also, should I install those shorter spark plugs? Install them before or after I put the headers in, which would be easier? Thanks all. -89IRO

25THRSS

The oil pan will support the weight just fine as long as you put a piece of wood across it to distribute the weight evenly. When you unbolt the motor mounts you just have the jack under the oil pan before you start and once everything is unbolted it justs rests on the piece of wood on top of the jack. You dont have to jack it up very much, maybe an inch or 2 to clear the headers and then once they are in you just lower it and bolt the mounts back up and you are done.

25THRSS

Oh and about the random tech converter, I had already previously posted pics of the 2 different styles. Looks high quality to me.

m300slr

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the info guys. I never thought that I could get this much info. I think that I will go with the catco converter.

bigals87z28

cheapest place to get a catco? Jegs or Summit? or other? ill try summit now..

trans87

No it's not. You can put a cut-out on a car without breaking any laws. Sound level is where you might get in trouble. Keeping it open and getting away with it really has to do with what kind of engine you got running. I drove my 305 for almost a year with an open cut-out on the roads. Didn't have one problem. For smog you cap it and you are good to go

89IRO

In Cal., you have to have the cut-out after the cat. converter, therefore, it wouldn't be "open headers". So that is kind of pointless. And any mod to the factory exhaust except smog legal headers, or an aftermarket muffler and cat. will fail you when you get your car smoged. You cannont increase the pipe size, or move it to a different location. Must stay factory position. -89IRO

firebirdconv92

just do what I did. Register your car way out in the boonies and take the cat off! I just registered mine at my grandpa's and replaced it with a good old "I" pipe!

Beast5spdGTA

1 thing for those expensive random tech cats price ~$220 each. They are TINY I mean extremely small, it's a 4" dia tube that is ~5" long. They look like a 5" long bullet muffler.

I don't think they're worth it for a stock replacement type, but maybe someone trying to do duals and 48 state emissions leagal (ha kinda of an oxymoron) since they don't take up anymore space then a reg piece of 4" tubing.

It would be interesting to hear more power differences between no cat and high flow cat, or high flow cat 'A' vs high flow cat "B"

lavamadness

How do Random Tech, Catco, Carsound, etc compare to stock in terms of emissions and longevity?

Here are some of the things I've heard murmured, but never really directly addressed. Perhaps someone here could clear some of them up?

Aftermarket cats are cheaper than stock cats because they have less catalyst (platinum). This means they aren't as good at reducing emissions as stock cats.

Along the same lines, they achieve a higher flow because they are like a coarse filter. Letting more of the exhaust flow through without coming in contact with the catalyst. Meaning it's less effective at reducing emissions.

Another thing I've heard said is they go bad much quicker than stock ones. (I've heard this is related to the lower amount of catalyst, but I don't understand why..). So even though they are cheaper, they end up needing to be replaced more often.

Can someone separate the BS from fact out of all this?

I mean, if aftermarket cats increase emissions (just not enough to fail) or don't last as long, that's fine. Would just like to know for sure. I just think there must be trade offs going from a stock cat to an aftermarket cat. Otherwise, why wouldn't GM be putting these better cats on their cars?

Z28GEN3

Here do this buy 2 cats, one with the lithium block and the other one you gut, simply bolt on, when u pass emissions take off the good cat put it away and put on the gutted one on, free flowing is just a gimmick. does a 3" in/outlet qualify as FREE FLOWING? are you willing to pay a few 100 dollars more for the larger ID pipe?
most of the old cars today put out less polution then the new ones do, because the people that maintain their muscle, sports, antique or collectable cars, tune them to run the best, with or with out Cats, and most of them dont put 10000 miles on them in a years time. Arizona is as strict about the Catalytic converters issue as Cali. If the inspectors see no cat they fail you. Since when did they start putting "platinum" in cats, its always been a "lithium monoblock" I used to work on just installing Cats. And just for comparison a 96 Mustang Cobra in Arizona must have 6 catalytic converters as stock equipt and 4 Oxy sensors. otherwise its a Felony charge(10years) for each cat not in place for the mechanic who does the work on a car w/o cats. If you have money that is just burning a hole in your pocket then just waste it, Free Flowing exhaust is Free Flowing when there is no Cat present. "take ctandc's advice" go to a shop and ask, ive laughed at people that wanted BETTER Cat, and I always put on the cheapy like they ever knew the difference.

89IRO

Damn, I thought mustangs had 4 cats. (which is still a lot) but 6? Jees. I guess it has to do with them small cubes/high output motors heh? And those ford engines just look huge from the outside, don't they? My neighbor has I think an '02, V6 mustang, which I think has 4 cats., but that V6 looks a lot bigger on the outside than my 350 TPI. BTW, it sounds pretty ****ty and loud for a v6. No thank you, FORD. Oh, AZ, was that '96 cobra you were talking about have a single or dual setup? Later. -89IRO

Z28GEN3

True dual with the X-pipe, the state made the owner install all of the cats, or else no registration no tags

89IRO

Wow that really sucks. 6 Cats., I still can't get over that. -89IRO