joshp14

i have read endless posts about whether to stay with the AIR tubes with headers, or toss the whole emissions system.

I have yet to determine which is better...or if it even matters.

Sooooo....my question is do you lose power with AIR in headers?

I live in Iowa and we have no emissions here. People have also said since states are expanding to emissions, they say to keep it cuz the state may go to emissions.

I need your opinions on whether to keep the AIR tubes or not.

llvll4l2c91350

We have no emissions here in FL either but that can change anytime. I would rather have the tubes in there knowing that if we ever get emissions testing, I will be fine and won't have to buy another set of headers.

Dewey316

if it helps, i am keeping my car legal, in case i need to move for a job, states get emmisions, whatever. i would rather loose a couple of ponies then have to hassle with it.

wyclefsirocz

yeah u lose a couple hp,and they are less more for a better dallor value, but i'm still kepping them, only cause i want to beat people and rub it in there face that i'm 100% street legal. hehe

bigals87z28

i say, rip it off. It doesnt effect NJ emmisions, and we are 2nd worse, if not tied for the #1 spot. Its only a visual thing... you lose some weight and free up some power... Iowa is not gunna have sniffer tests in the near future... and when they do... the car will probably be a collectable...

MikeS

If your car is in good running condition, you can pass a dyno emissions test with no AIR system. Actually, I just did yesterday. The only time that I would worry about not passing without AIR is if the state had an in depth visual check. Some places will fail you for not having all of the factory emissions control equipment, no matter what comes out of the tailpipes. Others will pass you as long as it tests clean.

MetalliCamaroRS

iTrader: (15)

Is lifting the motor necessary to install headers with AIR? I heard it was.

llvll4l2c91350

I don't think it matters whether they have AIR or not. The problem is the bottom part of the driver's side header hitting the steering linkage. You can either lift the driver's side, or just disconnect the linkage. I found it much easier to just remove the long thru bolt from the motor mount and lift it up about a couple inches. Header went right thru.

Z28 Boy

without a doubt in the world...GET RID OF THE AIR TUBES!!!

you will be WAY happier without them...it really is a huge difference as far as the looks of the headers go, and it cleans up under the hood.

they have nothing to do with the computer of the car, so you wont have to worry about getting any SES codes.

the only thing is that i heard that if you take them out, you may shorten the life of your cat. not sure....mine is in a box in the garage.

just my opinion...

-Brian

92BLKL98

Speaking to the guys at Random Technology the only concern they had was emission compliance, if you remove any emission device the car was certified with the vehicle is out of compliance. It will not hurt your cat. In my state all the visual looks for is a cat, a good gas cap, and a passing sniffer test. Personally I've removed the AIR ( no inspection yet but it looks so much better) and I'll worry about it if Georgia ever decides to do a more comprehensive visual. Do keep the hardware just in case. BTW it won't help power.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I have the Edelbrock nickle plated TES headers w/air tubes, and they look fine. It does make it difficult for repairs.

If you decide to get rid of the AIR tubes, simply run a hose from your AIR pump's outlet and straight to tube that runs to the CAT. It'll run just as clean.

You can then remove the AIR management valve (the stupid big plastic thingy with hoses), And it still cleans up the engine bay if you get headers w/o AIR tubes.

BTW...I beleive the CAT does require the air being pumped to it in order to help activate (help warm up quicker) the catylist. If you take long trips...no problem, don't need the pump cause it'll get hot enough.

But take alot of short trips were your car really isn't warm then w/o AIR, it may eventually plug. JMO....05

92BLKL98

I thought the same till I spoke to the guys at Random Technology. They said AIR really wasn't needed and it wouldn't hurt the cats to run without it as long as the engine was clean. What really kills cats is rich mixtures oil burners and backfires. Just keep the engine in a good state of tune and you will be OK. Why do some vehicles have AIR and some don't. My '92 Z does, my '91 Blazer doesn't. Even tho the Blazer has different emission standard its cat doesn't seem to be no worse off.

black89ws6

According to the manuals I've read (forget which, I've got a haynes, a chilton, and a helms), the AIR tubes at the manifold (or headers) only run during engine warmup. after that, the air flow is directed to the cat. I would say the purpose there is to cancel out the rich mixture required to start a cold engine. While the engine is warming up, the mixture is rich, and the AIR tubes dump air into the exhaust right at the manifold, which provides enough oxygen to finish burning the leftover fuel.

If in fact this is all correct, removing the AIR tubes to the manifolds shouldn't affect your emissions directly. However, the extra fuel that will make it to your catalytic converter isn't going to do it any favors.

The only reason to remove them is to make it easier to reach things like spark plugs. They dont' weigh anything, and they don't cost you any horsepower. The only emissions causing hp loss are by the restriction of a cat, and the drag of spinning a smog pump, which, of course if you've taken one or both of those out, than you may as well take air tubes too.

bigals87z28

if you get a cat with no air tube, this solves this problem....

92BLKL98

black89 is quite right but according to a recent post I read an engineer from GM claims you can rejuvinate a slightly poluted cat by driving it for an extended period of time. I can see where this would be true even the emissions inspector I use tells me you should give the car a good warm up before an inspection. The engine is in closed loop, and not in its rich warm up, and the cat is good and hot to do its job. Apparently the cat can recover from these short periods of rich operation. It is continued rich operation that kills them. Most replacement universal high flow cats do have AIR fittings but some (the Random Technology units) come with a plug kit so you can close off the fittings. As I said before according to the folks at Random Technology it doesn't matter to the cat. When I removed my tubes at the cat and ran the engine the air delivery was so slight I was surprised that it would be worth while. I just wish I could have tested it on a new AIR pump (any one with experience with this) mine still seemed to work but had 200,000 + miles on it.

86BirdSE

Where I live in PA, there is also talk of returning emmissions, but it's only going to be for cars up to a certain age. The nice part is that thanks to burocracy (who said the government dragging it's feet is a bad thing?) my Bird most likely will be long past the date for the dyno test.

I'm probably wrong, but I think it's a 12 year limit, something to do with the average age of a car on the road. The way it looks, it's going to be even less than that, limited to OBDII cars or something. It's at least another year away, sp who knows?

I honestly am in favor of a hood-closed dyno emmissions test. It gets the cars that are the gross polluters repaired. Let me do what I want with my car, so long as it passes their sniffer. Unfortunately, we are the ones holding the bag because we have "performance" cars.

92BLKL98

The idea of a closed hood is great but they still need an ignition signal for RPM on the dyno. I guess they could use a vibration type sensor. With my MSD ignition that's the only way they can get a reference. At idle with an induction tach sensor the system reads 2500 rpm at idle, with the vibration sensor it is correct.

MikeS

Here they use one that rests on the hood near the cowl over by the driver's side where the gauges are. I don't know how it operates, but judging from where they place it, it doesn't seem like a vibration sensor to me.

92BLKL98

They place it there because it's most convenient to the testing equipment. I promise you your car's instruments do not transmit RPM info. It could be picking up EMP from the high energy secondary wiring, but that could be on either side, front or back above the engine. But then a steel hood would probably shield any EMP. So I deduct it is probably a vibration sensor. These have been used for some time testing small engines

MikeS

It may be a vibration sensor. Everything you said makes sense, and I agree that there is no significant signal for it to detect. The signal to the tach is low voltage and low current, so I don't think that is it. The location is definately not convenient to the testing equipment here though. They end up dragging that thing halfway around the car to get it there. They have set it on the dash before as well. The only thing with it being a vibration sensor (as it probably is) is that places like that could end up showing some other frequency of vibration, not necessarily rpm. Oh well, guess I'll just have to call it a vibration sensor even though I'd like to believe otherwise. Oh, one more thing. Why is it so big if all it is is an accelerometer?

joshp14

so basically i should drop the AIR tubes, and then block off the air fitting in the cat? or do i need to run a tube to the cat..for some reason?? i got about 50/50 responses...

86BirdSE

if they plug it into the ALDL it's transmitting RPM info.... among other things too....

92BLKL98

I removed the AIR pump, lines and fittings. You should plug the cat fitting(s) or you will have an exhaust leak. If you want to leave the AIR pump on you could keep the tube to the cat(s) and the system will supply air to the cat(s). Keep the check valve in place it will protect the pump in event of a backfire. The AIR system doesn't cost but about 3 hp on the top end so it doesn't hurt. I removed mine cause the engine is prettier that way. I am going to reinstall the cats when I get the rest of my header and cat back stuff. For the most part I'm going to maintain the emission stuff. Georgia does have an emission inspection, but it checks for a cat, a good gas cap and a passing sniffer test. No comprehensive visual.

VERTIGO Z28

iTrader: (1)

I live in IOWA too and I just tore all the junk out. Get some shorty headers stand there in amazement about how good your underhood looks and enjoy your new found HP. Ive never looked back yet and am not worried about passin some inspection that we will never have. Just do it.