FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

I am looking at replacing a bad TPI engine in my 89 IROC. I was looking at one of the BulePrint to replace it. See link bellow:

BluePrint Engines BP350CT BluePrint Engines 350 C.I.D. Cruiser Crate Engines | Summit Racing

BluePrint Engines BP3505CT BluePrint Engines GM 350 C.I.D. 390 HP Long Block Crate Engines | Summit Racing

I was wanting to use the existing stock TPI setup. Does anyone know if the stock TPI will work? Not looking to build a high HP engine setup at this time. Maybe in the future I will work towards getting more HP out of one of these engines just not anytime soon. I will be getting upgraded injectors and adjustable fuel pressure regulator. My biggest concern is will the stock TPI bolt up on one of these engines and run well. I am looking at $6000 cost for most of what I will need to swap one of the above engines. I don’t want to go higher than the cost I am looking at here. I am using new parts for most of the install other than the original TPI system.
I also don’t want to do an LS swap. Like to keep it closer to old school. Could be open to other engines just would like them to be new and not remanufactured.

Firechicken82

I think the TPI will bolt on but tuning will be an issue. I don't think your stock ecm/chip will work without a custom chip. There are people on here that can help w that. The TPI will be a little restrictive on the upper end of the rpm range w those engines but will still be fun to drive. You may need a fuel pump w bigger injectors. The biggest issue will be tuning it. Those engines w a standalone EFI setup would be much easier to tune and likely run a little better. That said, I get you have a functional TPI.

BigBlock73

iTrader: (1)

Do a search on facebook market place.
People are swapping and going LS.
Here's what I found doing a quick search.
Search TPI engine

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

The TPI would bolt up to those two motors and it will run. The 341hp version would be a better choice of the two since the cam duration is more in line with what a TPI setup likes.

The bottom end is a typical 1-piece rear main 350, so that's fine. Camshaft is a little bigger than stock TPI, but should be good. Heads look to be pretty high flow and will work, but the TPI will restrict them a lot, so you won't realize much of a benefit from them.

The heads do not appear to be a vortec intake style, so they should work with your TPI lower base. I can't tell if they are an early style or '87 and later intake bolt pattern. Worst case is you would need to elongate your 4 center intake bolt holes in the intake manifold to make it work. The heads also don't have an exhaust crossover, so your EGR system will not work. Either will have to have it tuned out with a custom chip, or use a Corvette lower TPI base and an external EGR tube connected to the #8 cylinder exhaust (some fab work would be required).

Since your '89 TPI system uses a Mass Airflow sensor, it's fairly adaptable to changes in the engine configuration. You could fire it up and run it with all of the stock TPI stuff, just go easy since the stock 19lb injectors will be undersized and would probably run out of fueling and go lean at WOT at high RPM. Good enough to get it running and driving, work out the bugs. I would use 24lb injectors for that motor, which will need a custom chip anyway, so go ahead and tune out the EGR at the same time.

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

Thanks!!! for the reply and useful information. I do plan on getting at least 24lbs injectors. I do have a set of new FIC Bosch injectors think they are the 19lbs injectors. Not sure if it would be good to push them. I have a set of TPIS large tube runners along with a larger aftermarket throttle body. New set of Hooker headers. I know it would be a good idea to have a tune done to the ECU. I think I may go with having the EGR removed as I no longer have to have emissions on the car due to its age. I would like to keep the fabrication to a minimum. I feel the less crazy I go the less issue I should run into. I need to learn more about tunning and what all I will need to be able to tune my ECU.

I will get in touch with BluePrint Engines and see if they also have some advice on getting this up and running as well.

If anybody else has any input/advice I am very open as I am still in the planning stages of this build.

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

After talking to tech support at BluePrint they said the engines would not work due to the fact that they do not have a cam sensor. I have had this happen before. It kind of makes ya want too just give up on trying to keep the TPI.

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

Blueprint is going to be no help in advising how to use a TPI setup on their motor. They should have responded "I don't know" rather than the incorrect information they just gave you. TPI doesn't use a cam sensor or a crank sensor. It uses the distributor to understand the position of the crank and cam. The TPI setup will work on that motor.

You said in your other post that you don't need to go through emissions, so I agree with just deleting the EGR and tuning it out so you don't get a check engine light. Use the hooker headers, TPIS large tube runners and larger throttle body you have. Those will work well. Port match the upper plenum to the large tube runners and grind out the EGR wall behind the throttle body. The stock lower base will be pretty restrictive with this overall package. It will work, just will hold back power in it's stock form. If you're good with porting, you can port it out and get some decent gains. You could also search for a used TPIS, Edelbrock or Accel high flow lower base.

I wouldn't use those 19 lb injectors. I would use 24lb Delphi injectors from South Bay Injectors and add an adjustable fuel pressure regulator while you at it.

For tuning, it's going to be a custom programmed replacement PROM chip. This should be a pretty simple tune and Tuned Performance should be able to do it for you.

https://tunedperformance.wordpress.com/

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

Thanks GTA350,

I am grateful for the information I will put the 24lb Delphi injectors on my list. Yeah, knew I would need the adjustable pressure regulator. You also helped greatly with the link to get the ECU tune. That has been one big thing I was lost on finding help with.

I was thinking of porting the Plenum and base to port match the runners and heads. I read that the biggest flow restriction of the stock TPI is the MAF Sensor. So not sure what can be done to improve the air flow through the MAF.

I just talked to the owner of CME Engines out of South Carolina he offered to set me up with a 383. So I am kicking that around also. Still thinking the BluePirnt may be the way to go as they come with a 3 year 50,000 mile warranty also it’s a new engine. For the price leaning towards the BluePrint.

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

The MAF sensor will flow enough for your needs. Removing the front and rear screens will help. Back in the day, people would also grind out the internal aluminum heat sinks for some additional flow, but I don't think you'll be at a power level where that would be necessary.

Port matching the lower intake is good, but the biggest restriction is about 1-2" in from the cylinder head-manifold flange (just behind the injector). The stock manifold can be opened up some in that area with careful porting with a die grinder, but there isn't a whole lot of material there and it's easy to blow through. The aftermarket manifolds have larger cross section and more material to port out if you so choose.

I would not bother with a 383. The gains over the 350 will be minimal and not worth the extra money when using a TPI setup. You'll end up with similar horsepower numbers as the 350, just at a lower RPM.

Nsty_6.2

LS swap you wont regret it at all, just be ready to put in the work and piece everything, but believe me in the end you will be happy you did

LiquidBlue

Another option you can look at is a GM Vortec crate engine. You would also need to buy a Scroggins Dickey intake manifold (back in stock) and then you have all the same problems you have listed above (from what I read) - No EGR, have to tune it out, which appears easy if you have the equipment - amounts to setting the values so high, they are never reached, so you never get an error code. There is also a water bypass issue, but I think that is easily overcome. Using that engine, I'd pop in a slightly larger cam and you could be done with it. Think they are around 250 HP out of the box. Everything else you have bolts right up. I'm guessing Scroggins Dickey can also give some good advice on a TPI setup, after all, that is why they have the intake manifold.

Just a hunch, but those HP figures on the BluePrint engine are probably at some RPM that a TPI system could never reach, and they could be taken somewhere beside the rear wheel or where ever it is they take them to pump up the numbers that you will never see on a dyno.

rt66er is getting sub 6 second 0-60's, that is a good strong pull to have some fun with.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...31-r-swap.html

hessm70

The OPs post looks similar to my initial post on going with a crate long block whether it be BluePrint or a GM Vortec L31. In my case, I wanted to stick to TPI but then get the most out of it I can but ensure its reliable. At the end of the day all options had some variable/limitation that led me to re-building an L98. Now in my case, my L98 runs but has 110K on it so I found a used L98 and broke it down then took it to a local engine builder to assemble the long block with AFR Enforcer heads. I had Jim Hall (TPIS) do the porting of the top end. My plan is to yank the old one out this Fall and install the new one around Christmas time.

LiquidBlue

Why didn't you just rebuild the known L98 that was already in your car?

hessm70

Mainly time and I thought the engine in the car was hurt. In the end, it’s now been through two Hot Rod Power Tours and seems to run well. Nonetheless, I wanted to have the new engine ready to swap rather than wait weeks/months for my shop to get it ready. I really only used the short block from the donor with new pistons/rings…

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

Liquidblue,

I have thought about going with the GM Vortec. What I found was going to run around $1000 more than the two non Vortec options from Blueprint. I don't want to have to deal with a core refund so looks like new crate engine is the way to go. From what I have seen BluePrint has a great warranty that I can't get from other crate engines.

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

The Vortec L31 350 works too and it used to be a very economical option. Used to be a $2K brand new long block from GM. It’s now $4,600. At that price point, there are other options to consider.

LiquidBlue

are modern heads surpassing vortecs ?

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

The Vortec is a very good flowing head for short money, but there are a number of aftermarket heads that flow better.

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

Ok, if I used the FiTech Ultimate TPI Standalone ECUs 38350 could this be used as a replacement to having the stock ECU retuned.

FiTech Fuel Injection 38350 FiTech Ultimate TPI Standalone ECUs | Summit Racing

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

I have no experience with that system, but likely would work. However, it will involve a lot of wiring work and integration into some parts of the car’s original wiring. Then, you have to tune it or have it tuned.

The motor options you are looking at aren’t that far from stock and the original ECM with a custom PROM will handle it.

LiquidBlue

what needs tuned? timing? what else tho?

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

Not much really. Biggest thing is to change the injector contestant to know that is has 24lb injectors. Tune out the EGR and then some minor trim on the fuel and spark maps.

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

Thanks, I was not sure what all would need to be reset in the ECU. If it only needs a few items reset, then yeah. I will just try and get someone to help. I did send tunedperformance a request from the link. I just have not gotten any reply back.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Check your junk mail, responded Friday

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

I checked both Inbox and Junk mail. I even did a search for the email address. I am thinking that would be the one listed just below your address. I could not find anything sorry.