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Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
Well, it was going too smoothly and I knew I’d hit a wall. Between yesterday and today I’ve dropped my engine and transmission into my ‘82 (LS 5.3 LM7/4L60E w/6 bolt tail). I was installing my UMI crossmember underneath and noticed that my factory Torque Arm was about 1.5 inches too far forward and needed to be moved back to fit in the UMI bracket. Secondly, my driveshaft is about 1.5 inches forward also. My LS1 oil pan in just about to push into my engine crossmember so I know I’m not going to get the 1.5” from that. Is it possible my rear end/axel is pushing forward while I have it jacked up in the front? I was told this would all be compatible and I wouldn’t need a different drive shaft or anything.
I’m looking for any useful tips as this is my first 3rd gen Camaro and I’ve only had it about 2 months so I’m pretty new to these cars.
If you have the rear end fully unloaded and the axle is at full droop then yes the rear axle moves forward as the axle moves down. All driveline measurements need to be done w the suspension loaded normally. As the axle moves up it moves back, as will your torque arm and driveshaft. But don't be surprised if you need to change the length of the drive shaft. You also may need an adjustable torque arm. You're adding a bit of power. You may want new rear suspension components either way.
If you have the rear end fully unloaded and the axle is at full droop then yes the rear axle moves forward as the axle moves down. All driveline measurements need to be done w the suspension loaded normally. As the axle moves up it moves back, as will your torque arm and driveshaft. But don't be surprised if you need to change the length of the drive shaft. You also may need an adjustable torque arm. You're adding a bit of power. You may want new rear suspension components either way.
how would I plan on changing the length of my driveshaft? I planned on upgrading the torque arm to the UMI one but I just haven’t ordered it yet. I thought all of this was supposed to be a drop in factor replacement sort of thing without having to modify the driveshaft or anything
how is your engine mounted? Meaning what K-member and engine mount combo are you using? You may have to play with different mounts if you are combining multiple aftermarket brands of components. Any competent driveline shop can shorten and balance your driveshaft, make that the last thing you do once everything is bolted in.
how is your engine mounted? Meaning what K-member and engine mount combo are you using? You may have to play with different mounts if you are combining multiple aftermarket brands of components. Any competent driveline shop can shorten and balance your driveshaft, make that the last thing you do once everything is bolted in.
I’m just confused as to why everyone else is able to use the factory driveshaft but somehow I need to get mine shortened? I would much rather go by a driveshaft from a junkyard or something off of a car. Someone is parting out versus having to go and pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars to have a driveshaft shortened.
i'm pretty sure 82 camaros had one year only transmission options: 3 speed automatics and 4 speed manuals (as opposed to 4 speed automatics and 5 speed manuals for the rest of the thirdgen years). i suspect these 82 only transmissions required different length driveshafts which may be the cause of you not being able to do what "worked for everyone else".
When you have everything installed, then measure for your driveshaft. As battmann mentioned you may be able to get away with a more common shaft. You can buy an LS1 aluminum driveshaft for around $120. I paid $150 to have it shorted and rebalanced. Not too hurtful. However, you may not need to shorten at all, like many other swappers. What engine mounts are you using? If you are using Holley, they position the motor differently than the other brands out there.
When you have everything installed, then measure for your driveshaft. As battmann mentioned you may be able to get away with a more common shaft. You can buy an LS1 aluminum driveshaft for around $120. I paid $150 to have it shorted and rebalanced. Not too hurtful. However, you may not need to shorten at all, like many other swappers. What engine mounts are you using? If you are using Holley, they position the motor differently than the other brands out there.
I’ll take some measurements when I get home to see how long the driveshaft is. Do you know about how long the factory LS1 driveshaft is? Also, what should I do about shortening my torque arm since it’s too long as well. When I get home I’ll put jack stands under the axels instead of on the frame and take new measurements.
i'm pretty sure 82 camaros had one year only transmission options: 3 speed automatics and 4 speed manuals (as opposed to 4 speed automatics and 5 speed manuals for the rest of the thirdgen years). i suspect these 82 only transmissions required different length driveshafts which may be the cause of you not being able to do what "worked for everyone else".
I was told by multiple sources that it was the 700R4 from the factory but after running the Vin it looks like it was the three-speed TH200. So now what? Haha
I have an 82. The 4speed manuals and th200 are shorter than the t5/th700. When I swapped a t5 in it needed a new shaft and again when I swapped a t56 it needed one. There are also 2 less bolt holes on the subframe for crossmember mounting. I agree w your engine mount/crossmember positioning should be checked. Try and stick w all the same brand parts for the conversion. Measuring for a proper driveshaft length is easy and you should do that last. You may be able to find an 83 and up shaft but I'd measure first. Ive done a number of driveline swaps. A new shaft is usually part of the deal.
I have an 82. The 4speed manuals and th200 are shorter than the t5/th700. When I swapped a t5 in it needed a new shaft and again when I swapped a t56 it needed one. There are also 2 less bolt holes on the subframe for crossmember mounting. I agree w your engine mount/crossmember positioning should be checked. Try and stick w all the same brand parts for the conversion. Measuring for a proper driveshaft length is easy and you should do that last. You may be able to find an 83 and up shaft but I'd measure first. Ive done a number of driveline swaps. A new shaft is usually part of the deal.
sweet, since mine is a 4l60e Do I need to try and stick with parts off a car that has a 700 or a 4th gen 4l60e?
It really depends on where your engine mounts have the driveline sitting. I'd measure, then see what will work. You may get lucky.
so I called UMI since I have some of their products and they informed me that the 3 speed auto, 4 speed auto and all other factory 3rd gen options came with the same driveshaft and torque arm lengths. With that being said, they told me any driveshaft or torque arm in my car will bolt up to any 3/4th gen 4l60e and that if my driveshaft and torque arm are 1.5” off that it would have to be something to do with my rear end since my engine, transmission and crossmember are all bolted up in the factory location. It looks like when I get home I’m going to have to crawl under there and see what’s going on.
if that's true i assume you'd easily notice your rear wheels not being centered in the rear wheel well. they would be off-center towards the front of the car.
i'm not so sure UMI is correct. this transmission comparison chart below shows the TH200 and 700R4 are not the same overall length. the engines of all thirdgens mount the same so the only way to make up the difference would be for the tranny crossmember to be installed further forward with a longer driveshaft
if that's true i assume you'd easily notice your rear wheels not being centered in the rear wheel well. they would be off-center towards the front of the car.
i'm not so sure UMI is correct. this transmission comparison chart below shows the TH200 and 700R4 are not the same overall length. the engines of all thirdgens mount the same so the only way to make up the difference would be for the tranny crossmember to be installed further forward with a longer driveshaft
oh wow, that’s an awesome diagram for reference. I wonder if the torque arms are different lengths too. I’m surprised the guys at UMI didn’t know that since that’s what they do for a living… I’m just ignorant because this is my first Chevy and I know nothing about transmissions
if that's true i assume you'd easily notice your rear wheels not being centered in the rear wheel well. they would be off-center towards the front of the car.
i'm not so sure UMI is correct. this transmission comparison chart below shows the TH200 and 700R4 are not the same overall length. the engines of all thirdgens mount the same so the only way to make up the difference would be for the tranny crossmember to be installed further forward with a longer driveshaft
You were right!
Well I found my issue. UMI was wrong and they did make different length drive shafts and torque arms in the 3rd gen’s. I found out my roller originally had a TH200 3-speed auto which is 2” shorter than a 700r4. My driveshaft was 51” long so I found one for sale in my area for $40 that came out of a IROC that was 49” long. That fixed my problem.
awesome! can't go wrong with a $40 fix.
does your original torque arm fit or will you have to replace that too?
I’ll have to replace it. My stock one didn’t look too good anyways but I was hoping to get it all in and running before I started worrying about doing suspension upgrades
Well I found my issue. UMI was wrong and they did make different length drive shafts and torque arms in the 3rd gen’s. I found out my roller originally had a TH200 3-speed auto which is 2” shorter than a 700r4. My driveshaft was 51” long so I found one for sale in my area for $40 that came out of a IROC that was 49” long. That fixed my problem.
My guess is UMI just doesn't run into the bastard '82 cars enough to know of the differences. Or some book they have says everything is the same length.
Pat <-- with a bastard '82 that originally had a T10
My guess is UMI just doesn't run into the bastard '82 cars enough to know of the differences. Or some book they have says everything is the same length.
Pat <-- with a bastard '82 that originally had a T10
well, I just hope that when I get my torque arm from them I don’t run into anything crazy since I swapped over to the 4l60e
05-28-2024, 06:17 AM
