BlueLightning

Hey guys i have a few questions before i start towards a new engine swap. My planes are to go from a stock 305 LO3 to a 327 in my 1991 Camaro RS but i would like to keep the TBI. The 327 will either be fresh built, crate, or pulled from an old car i have not decided which yet. I was wondering could i do it and if so how hard would it be to do. Would have i have to do a lot of tuning to the computer and TBI. Another thing is, would i be able to use any of the old Parts from the front of the 305 such as the water pump, AC or other things. Also would i have to do any modifications to make it fit i don't think it would cause it is a small block to small block swap but i might be wrong. Lastly am i missing any questions or thing that will need to be done. Rate Swap difficulty on a scale 1 to 10

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The 327 is a small block Chevy, same as any other. Water pump, AC, etc. will all bolt right back on. Assuming of course, that you use a pr of heads with the accessory bolt holes (69-up)... without those bolt holes, they won't.

Since all 327s use the old 2-pc rear main seal, you'll have to get the flywheel or flex plate for 83-85 Camaro/Firebird.

Tuning requirements will depend on the specific motor, particularly the cam.

A better question would be, why a 327. There's nothing special about that size. In fact I quit building them in the late 70s when 350s became cheeeeeep and widely available; got tired of getting beat. Remember, the 327 and 350 share the same bore size, the ONLY difference is the stroke. The difference between a 383 and a 350 is also ... the stroke. By the exact same difference. (¼") You don't see people going out of their way to nut a 383 back into a 350; you don't see people (ones with common sense, or ones that WIN, anyway) reducing their motors to the old obsolete small size, for the same reason.

As far as hard, on a scale of 1 to 10, how hard is brain science? rocket surgery? that depends on whether or not you're a rocket surgeon or whatever, no? whether you went to rocket medicine school for 8 years? whether you have a nice fully equipped OR with scalpels and lasers and all such as that? a staff of nurses and anesthesiologists? Same for swapping a motor. For me, what you propose (or rather, what I would do instead of what you propose) would be about a 2. First one I did, was about a 8. What it will come out to in your case, will depend on your facilities, tools, prior experience, and willingness to listen to sound advice and take it even if it doesn't agree with your preconceptions (like the 327 thing).

BlueLightning

Thank you that was very helpful. And to answer your question about why a 327. Because every one is going big block or yes a 350 and i my self would like to be different. the car is not becoming a race car just a little project they i can to to a car show and say look what i did or things of that nature. 327 can get over 350 horse and much more and that is all i need just to be able to punch it every now and then at a red light and roar down the road. But mostly it is is just a fun project to do.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That's a good one. Never heard that before.

No, actually, that's EXACTLY what I expected you to say. TO THE VERY LETTER.

It costs, EXACTLY, right down to the last penny, the EXACT same amount of money to build a 327, as it does a 350. Only thing that will be different is, at the end, when all the money is spent, you'll have LESS MOTOR if you spend it on a 327 instead of a 350.

Imagine you go to the grocery store with $10 to buy a steak. You kinda look around, and you see all these other people with their $10s, buying steak too. They're picking it up off the counter, putting it in their basket, and going to the cash register, and every one of them is getting one pound of steak for his/her $10. You're trying to figure out what to do.

Do you: decide you're going to be "different", pick up a slightly smaller steak (let's say, ¾ lbs) and walk up to the counter, and tell the clerk, "hey I wanna be DIFFERENT from all those other people, I wanna buy this ¾ lb steak for the same $10 they're all getting 1 full lb for!" Well that's EXACTLY what your plan is. The hot-rodder equivalent of paying $10 for ¾ lb when the price on the tag is $10 for a WHOLE lb.

If you would do THAT, if you would actually be foolish enough to go out of your way to be that kind of "different" - the kind where the people at the car show say they're not laughing AT what you're doing, they're laughing WITH you - then going out of your way to build a 327 instead of a 350 is FOR YOU. Because LAUGH they will.

There's a basic equation that applies to hot-rodding:

Fun = $$$ x CID

What this means is, for any given amount of $$$, you get more Fun if you start out with more CID. Or conversely, for any given CID, then to reach a higher level of Fun, you have to put in more $$$. You can slice it and dice it any way you want to extract the relationships available between Fun (results), cost, and engine size, It's REAL SIMPLE that way. That's why people put big blocks in cars that didn't come with them: it's because you almost don't have to "build" a bigger motor AT ALL to be able to beat a smaller one... you just plop it in as-is and start opening the cans of whoop-***.

Since a 262.5/265/267/283/302/305/327/350 engine looks the same from the outside no matter which bore and stroke is on the inside, "car show" (where people LOOK AT things and that's the "point") is totally independent of things like "327" except for the "numbers matching" type situations. I.e. where you want THE RIGHT block, heads, etc. in the ENGINE to match the CAR. Since that doesn't apply to putting an obsolete small motor into a car that it didn't come in, not a good idea. Meanwhile, there IS a big difference among all those in what happens when you press the skinny pedal on the right.

So be SMART instead of "different", and realize that sometimes, there's A DAMN GOOD REASON why "everybody" does certain things a certain way; and that you're not going to suddenly re-write the whole history of hot-rodding by making that hilarious tired old n00b mistake. Remember, all of us with experience, have made a bunch of those n00b mistakes too, as we were learning; take advantage of what we had to learn THE HARD WAY (which spending money on a 327 and getting your *** whipped by somebody that spent LESS on a 350, certainly counts as THE HARD WAY, since you can't go back and undo it cheeeeeeeply or eeeeeezily) and learn from us the EEEEEEZY way (reading on the Internet).

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Oh sweet baby Jesus. You're killing me here.

Somehow any time someone says 327 anything, the motivation is always either to be "different" or because they believe the 327 is some magical silver bullet engine.

327's are so 1990's. These days, all the real special snowflake, rebel cool kids, bucking the status quo, are building stroked and bored 305's with Ultimate TBI mods and Black Echo's School of Horsepower.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

1990s my tailfeathers...

1960s.

That motor has been obsolete since the 350 was introduced, in 1967. It was dropped after, what, 1971, for that reason. There was no longer any valid purpose for keeping the shorter stroke. Even GM, in the mental haze of the beginning of the Malaise era of total laziness, lack of forethought, and reliance on "the storied history", figured that one out.

I built a few 327s through the 70s; didn't have the money to go "state of the art" for myself. Toward 1980 I built more and more 350s and less 327s. Last 327 I built that I can remember was in around 1981, for a customer that wanted to "be different" and "old school". (yes, the term had already been invented back then, no you millenials didn't make it up) Going in some mid 70s Monte Carlo (lead sled) IIRC. He was sorely disappointed: here he was dreaming about some L79 Nova some one of his uncles had had, even had me put a L79 cam (151) in it against all advice to the contrary, but what he ended up with was a LOSER. He spent I guess it was around $1400 on it, AT LEAST; that was just with ME, on the long block proper; probably another $1000 or so on headers, carb, etc. In other words he was into that thing to the tune of almost $6000 2016. Motor ran GREAT, but just didn't have the nads. He liked to run his mouth and let it write checks his car couldn't cash. He lost every street race I ever saw him run. Butt hay... he was DIFFERENT!!!

battmann

iTrader: (9)

Is all the bashing really necessary?? Who cares why someone wants to build XYZ engine. That's what he wants and asked questions accordingly. Sofakingdom's first reply had some good info but after that all comments went off on tangents about bashing. If someone is willing to build their own engine and perform a swap they probably already understand the differences / costs involved in a 327 vs 350 build.
The swap is no harder than a 350 swap and ultimately will cost the same or a little more. Front 305 accessories will work on the 327. The 327 heads may not have accessory bolt holes but you can drill and tap the DS head if need be. Some 327s had staggered bolt holes for the valve covers and not straight across ones. Some also had a road draft tube. Some things to watch for.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

It's not about "bashing": which is what YOU'RE doing to ME.

It's about helping someone with NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER, by his/her own admission, from making THE SAME STOOOOOPID MISTAKE that others have made before him/her, in fact have been making for OVER 40 YEARS now. S/he DOES NOT understand the differences between the different displacement small blocks, by his/her own admission. It should be obvious to anyone that knows what they're doing that if s/he DID understand that, s/he would not have asked the question in the first place.

No you CANNOT drill and tap the old no-bolt-hole heads. There's NOTHING THERE to drill and tap.

No no 327 heads had the staggered valve cover bolt holes. The last year of that was 1959 if memory serves (could have been 1958 but you know how that goes...) whereas the 327 was introduced in 1963.

Since you have nothing useful to add, and even worse, are posting stuff that's WRONG, please go away.

battmann

iTrader: (9)

you can drill and tap a non-accessory head - i've done it. i know by your above post that you'll say i'm stupid for doing so or whatever, but i've done it and it has worked. i had to drill and tap a hole on the PS head for the alternator. i posted a picture below.

in regards to the valve covers, i'll admit i was mistaken. when i built my 327 i remember seeing corvette valve covers offered in both staggered and straight bolt patterns. i didn't realize no 327s had the staggered pattern. you could have been more tactful in your reply, but i still learned something so thanks.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You can't drill and tap a no-bolt-hole head; if you think you did it ONCE, you just got REAL DAMN LUCKY. Doesn't mean it'll ever work for anybody, including yourself or anybody else, ever again.

Giving people "advice" based on ONE instance of pure dumb luck, marks you as a FOOL.

I happen to have personally known someone at one time, who was out skydiving one day; and his parachute failed to open. Yet he survived. So I suppose, by your lack of logic, that he should now get on the skydiving forums and tell everybody all about, "you don't need a parachute when you skydive, see, I'm living proof!" ?? Right?

Thanks for admitting that you're mistaken about the other thing though. Good move.

IROCKMY90IROC

Man, you're kind of a dick

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You went through the multi-step process of joining the forum just to say that?
Man, you're kind of a dick.