paul_huryk

Just returned from the big PRI show in Orlando - had CTW Motorsports' wheels displayed at the D-Force Wheels booth and walked around a bit...

At Dart's booth, they had a display of a SBC short block using a brand new SHP engine block in various displacements (372, 400, & 427) and also different levels of rotating assembly parts (regular or fully forged). Checking the prices, they are really competitive with builders who reuse factory blocks and build from there ($5,550 to $5,700 per Dart).

Wondering if anyone has used them in a swap and if so, how they like them. I figure that 550 streetable HP of the 427 (similar to their spec build) along with an aftermarket fuel injection system should put my Camaro into the 10's with traction and be competitive with the price of an LS3 conversion at the same power level.

Links to their website:

http://www.dartheads.com/products/sh...rt-blocks.html

http://www.dartheads.com/products/sh...k-builder.html

watajob

iTrader: (29)

The TPI comparo that's been floating around for years shows 500 HP out a 383 w/a miniram. A 427 should easily best that by 50 HP. Plus, Dart's stuff is always quality so it has to be better than a rehabbed stock block. There's a lot of improvements cast in. My retirement project, God willing, is a 427 miniram in the 'vert using that block. Check this out:
http://www.tristarengines.com/catalo...hortblock.html
With a set of AFR's CNC'd 195's? Gives me goose bumps just thinking about it!

http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=24_29

paul_huryk

Yes, the 500hp 383 seems cliche at this point - whether it be a carb, or TPI replacement intake tract. Although a well balanced combination will put that 500hp near 6000rpm, not 6.5 or 7k.

I only put together one 400 based engine - way back in 1994 for a friend's car. 406ci, AFR 195 heads, roller cam, carb in a 3rd gen - made 514hp at 5800rpm and was 100% streetable. I personally drove the car to 11.6 at well over 120mph on street tires, untouchable for that time.

Actually i spoke to AFR at the show too about head choices for engines - they like to use the 195 for 383 based engines and the 210 for 406 and larger (4.125" bores). They said that due to the overwhelming amount of TQ a 406 and 427 can produce with smaller cc heads, the larger ports kill off a bit of low end while giving more upper mid and upper rpm power. I can believe that since my small port 350 has the bottom end of a 383 despite the shorter stroke.

You hit it on the head - new block with improvements vs. an old reconditioned factory one for the same price. Although I would go for the forged internals as it is marginally more $ for strength and peace of mind.

But when you add heads, valvetrain, oiling, exhaust, fuel system, and intake - it pushes right past $10k pretty quickly...

1gary

There are various versions or options.What you guys are pricing is street/strip ones.When you get into race versions the price of the block alone can push near or slightly of the 5k level.Then you have to fill it.Our first gen 9.90 race engines are in the price range of $30,000 to $35,000.My point is there is still a place for OEM blocks use and to post for the record what you guys are price quoting.

paul_huryk

While I doubt the 725hp I would need to get my car into the 9.90's is possible with what Dart is selling, you aren't going to get a stock 400 block into that range either - even with perfect machine works and excellent parts. Sammy Maloof quoted me $25K for a 825hp 427 SBC that would only run on race gas - useless in my application, but impressive none the less.

Then again, I will be happy with the 550hp to 575hp that the engine would make and be fully streetable for around $10K - a second slower than your engines, but also about 1/3 of the cost I'm guessing. I plan on swapping my 150hp nitrous kit from the 350 onto the motor for "more fun" anyway.

1gary

Paul,some of our 9.90 engines where in fact filled block 400's of various sizes.

watajob

iTrader: (29)

"How fast is it?"
"How much money you got?"

cuisinartvette

Easy to get in over 10k with one of those lots more stuff to buy.
If approaching the 15k mark (again) Id go straight to an SB2.2
Ultimate smallblock imo.

700+hp easy thats still driveable.
It will take a modded Busa to keep up with you.

Oh well dreams are for free lol. Til then Ill work on blowing my mismatched 383 up

1gary

But these facts are well known by all of you.If a 350,why not a 383,but if a 383,why not a 400,but if a 400 why not a SHP,but if a SHP,why not a BBC 454,but if a 454 why not a LSx,but if a LSx,why not a big BBC 498,but if a 498,why not a BBC 565,but if a 565,why not a BBC 632....................

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lol i would place lsx below bbc... There is no contest there but build the biggest inch motor you can afford for a street car. The powerband is more favorable to street driving with big grunt engines. But i certainly dont mind a high winding build either, a 550 hp 355 can be done but you will need to spin some rpm. The sound alone from that motor could be well worth the lack of low end and the required high stall and gear ratios

paul_huryk

Sweet!

paul_huryk

Problem is budget and if it fits into the car...

If a forged 383 or 396 costs only a few more $ to build than a 350, that is a no brainer - more inches is better; unless you run in a ci limited racing class. 400 drops in into the same hole left by a 305 or 350, but can cost more to build correctly. For every person I know that built a really potent 400 based block, there are 5 that ended up with boat anchors.

While I like BBC engines, shoehorning one into a 3rd gen with stock strut towers is not something most would want to do - power differences aside.

I do like the LSX route - especially with the 100lb aluminum weight savings vs. iron. The only thing is that you need to essentially rewire the whole car with either OEM stuff or go aftermarket EFI.

Speed does in fact cost money - lots of it...

paul_huryk

I estimated that the full engine with all the accessories, headers & exhaust, fuel system with aftermarket stuff, crossmember and some other chassis parts is going to run $13k to $15k - depending on some variables... But I'm talking car not needing anything other than small incidentals.

At PRI last week, I had seen some SB2.2 stuff - I doubt it is streetable in everyday driving; the ports on the heads are monstrous - at first glance I thought they were for a BBC. Not saying you can't make it work decent, but It would be a hard go.

700hp in a 3400lb car won't crack 140mph in the quarter and a Busa will beat it pretty easily. 200hp nitrous would make a winner though...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

My buddys nitrous oem 400 motor went 9.8's i believe and cracked the block. It was a 10.0's car for several years til it went to sealevel track and upped the shot. Surprised it lived that long, i think it was a 2 bolt main!

86iroc2try

My motor has an SHP block...awesome piece...and at 3095 lbs i went 9.88@135.8 mph..with a motor that dynod 590 hp (@ 7000 rpm) with a set of small 1 3/4" hooker headers.

700 hp would get me into the 9.20 range easily. Remember combinations and average hp are more important than PEAK horsepower.

paul_huryk

590hp is one strong 355 - what is inside the motor?

86iroc2try

12.5 compression with an erson solid roller...brodix track 1 heads...lost 15hp from the dyno headers to my hookers. So its 590 with my headers. Lol

Adding a vac pump soon too to get 630ish from it.

paul_huryk

Sounds like fun - at the track at least!