Project 3.4 Camaro

I am basically an indecisive wreck as to what engine I want to go with, ultimately I am aiming for 500-700hp, I would prefer cheap, quick and easy, though unique would be nice also...

I can find a 3.6 for around $2k, possibly even with trans, but mounts would be completely custom, and it would be new territory, I did find a company that can flash the ecm to run the engine without all the other riff raff tying into the ecm. With boost it could hit the goal(5 psi puts it in stock ls3 territory)

The ls3 is expensive(was either 6.5k or 7.5k roughly), but makes gobs of power, esp if i opted for the GMPP cammed one that cranks out 525...but it would also be a brand new dead reliable crate that I wouldn't even have to open up to get more power out of. Would be almost as easy to swap as the ls1.

Lastly is the ls1, easy to find used with trans for under $3k, and swap parts readily offered in the aftermarket, but its been done to death, and would require some work to reach my goals.

Would like some votes, and some input as to why the given vote is chosen.

1gary

There is nothing common at those hp levels of quick,cheap,easy.You need to post what is your total budget.

blackbmagic

LS1. Simple, Cheap, reliable, and readily available. Quite an easy platform to hit 500+ hp with just heads and a cam.

Project 3.4 Camaro

budget isnt the concern per say, i basically want the best all around option, a balanced one, something that can make the power levels im after reliably, I guess you might say i want the most bang for the buck more than the cheapest motor necessarily. Lately I have been thinking I should just go for an ls1, as it won't take me as long to save up for as the ls3, but will still be an easy straight forward, proven swap.

1gary

With your post count I am sure you know that so many of these threads never develop into anything more than bench racing.I have recently took the position for me to get into a long exchange in a thread that I want to qualify based on a budget if the O/P is serious.I guess it has been too many yrs on forums for me to find out all the time spent was for a end result of the O/P doing nothing.And I don't mean to imply that is you,just wanted to explain myself.
Consider this early on.How you want to use this set-up does make the direction on how and what to build.Street vehicles should focus on torque and HP is misleading rating.Isn't that something how we all have been brain wash into thinking so much about HP??. But for to get to peak HP isn't a RPM range used too often in normal street driving.So you say you want the biggest bang for your buck building a engine with huge HP ratings and then not use that often.

I'll follow along to see how your doing on this and hope you get to your goals.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

So, in essence, you're saying "first of all, get enough cubic inches"?

Project 3.4 Camaro

Hp can work, you just have to know how, if you are biased towards hp and want to go fast on the street, you throw low ratio gears 4.10 or 4.55 and a high stall tq at it...but I am not asking for advice on how to build the car, I'm asking for opinion of which motor is the best all around option in terms of price, max power capability, and price to increase power, reliability, and ease of swap.

1gary

More sure does make it easier.

blackbmagic

Again LS1.

The only different is bore, heads and cam in the ls3 besides subtle differences. Why even bother offering that at a choice if you are going to be changing things to reach your goals anyway.

Ls1. Bore and stroke, pistons, rods, heads, cam, intake.

Ls3 will cost more money but take slightly less time in the long run.

3.6? Why? parts are hard to find, expensive, time consuming lots of fab work, too much work and power to reach that power goal.

Project 3.4 Camaro

If I bought the cammed ls3(the stock ls3 isn't what I had in mind), I wouldn't need to change things to hit my goal, its 525 hp right out of the box for 6.5k(or 7.5k, I can't recall which). I guess I have more or less ruled out the 3.6 llt in my mind, simply because the gap between it and my goal is too large.

But it seems to me after I've done all of that bs to the ls1, I'll have run up the cost past the gmpp cammed ls3 anyways, and replaced half the engine in the process, so why not buy an out of the box, brand new, ready to go 525 hp crate at the point? Realistically what will it take as far as parts, and cost to upgrade an ls1 to hit those goals? Or should i maybe look into building an ls from scratch?

blackbmagic

Seems like you are answering your own questions. I was assuming you meant stock Ls3.


An ls1 will have no problem making 500hp at the crank with heads, cam, and bolt ons. Either way a used ls1 cleaned up, rebuilt, with heads, cam, bolt ons and tune will be less than 6-7k. Problem solved.

Do some research, on ls heads and cams to find something that fits your needs. Texas speed makes some nice cams that a lot of the ls guys run.

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

both of the aluminum blocks are going to be pricey, an LQ4/9 would be cheaper to get going and more stout for higher power levels.

as nice of a motor for what it is, i'd skip the 3.6 altogether if you're going for high numbers, street manners, and reliability.

but you'll have to do a lot of other work to the car to get that power to the ground; trans, rear, and a good amount of body stiffening would be in order

paul_huryk

I would say LS3 as you can put together a 570hp one with just ported heads, cam, intake, and tuning. Of course you will lose some HP with the smaller LS1 and LS2 engines because of less ci, but the power/ci is going to be about the same.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

500 to 700 hp.... Thats quite a broad range of power.

Cam/heads/intake LS1 can do 500-550. Cam only LS3 can do 500-550 fairly easily. Probably can get close to 600hp with some head work and big cam. Thats 500-ish whp. Definately doable in a LS3 motor. Getting at or over 600hp n/a is gonna cost some coin no matter what you do.

700hp is more along the lines of a fully built 400+" LS motor with fully ported LS3-LS7 type heads and LS7 102mm type manifold. I'd run LS7 based heads with some port work for 650-700hp all motor. Thats an EXTREMELY stout motor and will require money to build. Once you start goin over 1.5 hp per cube, you are making some powerful motors and that cost money because you need well designed/ported heads/cam/intakes.

It be easier and cheaper for you to find a LQ4/LQ9 like said, and just throw on stock LS3 castings with matching LS3 intake. Match valvesprings to the cam of your choice and make a solid 450-500whp, which is 500-600 hp on motor somewhere.

Project 3.4 Camaro

My goal is that broad because I don't know what its going to take to satisfy me, but I have driven a 3.6 llt recently, and it does not come close to satisfying me, its no slouch, but its a long ways off from the power I want. If an lq4/lq9 is an iron block, that is not an option, I plan to autocross this car in the future, and am adamant that if I get a v8 it be aluminum to retain decent balance.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

the lq4/lq9 is the iron blocked lsx found in trucks. id say if you have the coin go for the ls3. if you want the satisfaction of saying YOU made 500+hp, go with the ls1 and rebuild it with some better bolt ons. since youre gonna be autoxing youre gonna need to build it with the optimum power band in mind, not peek HP numbers. a peak hp number of 525 doesnt mean crap if you have to rev it to the moon to get it there. while autoxing, youll be keeping the car in a 2 to 5 or 6k rpm band, so thats were you want to make all your power.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

With that broad power band, you'll like a turbo setup...quick and easy way to get from 500 to 700 in a few seconds by turning a boost control ****. But its not the best for autox since power can come on and off fairly quickly and make it difficult to control tire spin

Parasoth

iTrader: (1)

5.3 pullout special, 1 Ebay GT45.

Cost effective, reliable, 500-700 HP. Later down the line you can add another GT45 and shoot for 1000+

I don't see how a turbo car which can produce a needed lag coming out of a turn is worse than an NA car which has to watch its throttle at all times.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Key would be balancing lag time with torque onset. If its too large of a turbine, it will likely lag alot and then at a certain rpm point, turn on like a light switch...producing a huge rush of power/trq to the tires. Something like that would come out of a turn slow, no power and then light tires up with the huge rush of power.

You'd need to size it right. Too small and spool to quick, you get same effect of large rush of power to the tires in a very short period of time. Ofcourse you can control torque output with a good timing control function. Pull timing in the mid range as boost comes on and really limit the power, but watch out for high exhaust temps...