88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i was just thinking this off the top of my head.. do you guys think that within the next 10 to 15 years that lsx types engines might be cheap enough to the point where people will start saying "why do a 350 swap when you can do a ls swap" kind of like the today's thing "why build a 305 block when you can get a 350 or 383 block".... do you guys think that the good old 350 sbc will the dog motor in the future just like the 305 motor is today..

with todays ls v8's starting to be more powerful than most bolt on gen 1 350's can do and the ls1 engines getting cheaper as the years go by.. i would think that they will slowly start replacing the good old "350" swap....

shortyskater

I think so. Its almost like anything else. As years go by, most things will become cheaper than they were. And there will always be something more powerful/better than the original. So yes I think the LSx motors will become the new "350" replacement. The LS1 swap has already become very popular in the last 10 years or so. There will always be the old school guys who stay original and true to what they grew up with. Kind of like the carb'd generation and the FI generation.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

First gen 350's will alway be choice for old school hot rodders. Though there is truth to what your saying.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

i think the biggest changeover issue, for me atleast is that i like the fact that our cars are computer controlled, yet it can be worked on without a scanner, obd2 is a big fear for some people but id be down with the ls swap if it was cost effective

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

its just with todays car, our performance cars seem slow today.. i minus well just stick with the gen 1 350 because all im looking for is a 350whp daily driver and i dont need a ls or any other engine that gm throws out..

it just seems like everyone is trying to go bigger and better or try to out do the last model. i always knew that there will always be bigger and faster engines as the years go by but..the ls engines are already fast enough and even quicker with mods.. i dont see gm replacing the ls engine for a LONG while if they ever do..

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i bet soon we will see alot of 400 plus horsepower family and sedan cars in the next decade and people will say 400 hp is no big deal lol...

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

the first V8s that ford made only produced about 50-65hp, and that was top of the line for those early cars. The ford V8 cars were the fastest and most powerfull production cars of their era. Not so now. A 20yr geo metro could out run one of those easely.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i'll be damned if my gta gets beat by a future weak car like that lol...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i might just have to supercharge my build just to keep up with people.... I will never change away from the tpi look.... i want it to look original but with attitude..... i want my 80's technology to still keep up with current cars....

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

I got a 5.0 TBI, and I can at least keep up with people now days. And with some bolt on parts, new exhaust, and open air element, better intake manifold, and some better rear end gears, I should be abel to do more than that, Cam and heads would be better. Engine swap would be best.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i can outrun alot of cars today but i would not mess with the new 11 stang and camaro and a few other factory cars....

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Well yah but those are meant to to be the most BADA$$ muscle cars around. 4th gens and '05-'10 mustangs aren't to hard

Guest

The FEAD problem, the oil pans problem, cheap shorty headers that fit already available Y-pipes, these need truly low-cost, widely available solutions before the LSx family can outnumber the SBC in a ratio the reverse of what we have now.

Guest

Until the mid '60s, the Ford Flathead was the universal favorite, before that honor passed to the SBC. Here we are 55 years later, and that honor is passing to the LSx family, but finding a Ford flathead is like finding hens' teeth.
The SBC won't get into this same boat as the Ford flathead for one simple reason: fuel. We'll be done with gasoline, and "progressed" to other fuels, long before that point.

1gary

I have had, given my age,the privilege to watch the advances from the flat head days to current.We know more the how and why today then days ago.We used to call a build a dog in one case and another case same build was just a killer never knowing what was different between them.Computer controls has refined all the top haft improvements we now see outputs that without that we would have never achieved before.The performance Industry will always follow the money and as the demand goes up for the new stuff,hopefully the price will go down.It might take major racing organizations like NASCAR going to a EFI to truly change the direction of the volume of parts built.The bad part of that is as new tech come into play,the price really doesn't change.The example of that is the 3500 series Edelbrock's no longer being supported by them and the Pro Flow's are still very expensive.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i have no interest in buying a ls type block.... i can achieve everything i want with what i got... sure i can get more power from a ls but im not building a 500hp car either.... if i ever decide to get a ls block (which is very unlikely) that would be considered old tech and everyone will be jumping on the next big thing.... You can never have the "best" engine so minus well stick with what i got and try to get the most out of it which will be more than enough for me.

would be cool thirty years down the road to see a GTA with an old school built tpi still keeping up with the cars.... I dont think these cars are old enough to get the wow factor or old school factor..... if there was a car show 30 years down the road and there were two gta's, i would be waaaay more interested in the gta engine with a highflow tpi sitting on top or a FIRST (or any tpi base engine that defined these cars) than a new swapped over engine.. cause people would say "hey i remember those intakes when i was in my teens" or "man what an 80s classic"

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

SBCs will never die. Just too darn many of them and a HUGE aftermarket allowing them to still be potent mills

LSx stuff is still relatively new. If GM is still turning them out at this rate in 10-15 years, they may become about as popular as the old SBCs were in years past, but they will never replace them entirely. As production numbers rise, aftermarket will fill the void and prices will come down. Not SBC cheap, but lower than current. Heck, just look how the headers have came down in just the last 5 years

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

it would be nice for the aftermarket sbc crowd to cheapen the price of sbc heads.... i still think they are way too expensive conisdering that lsx stock heads flow better than afr 180 heads out the box and are a fraction of the price... 1500 for new heads can almost get you a ls1 if you know where your shopping...

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

SBC heads ARE cheap compared to LSx heads

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i actually never looked at prices for performance heads for the lsx type motors since they do so well with stock heads...... with a sbc its almost a must in order to get any real power out of them....

shortyskater

I agree its going to be interesting down the road to go to a car show and see our cars and remembering different features about them compared to what will be the "new". It will be almost like the 50's, 60's and 70's cars today. They are the classics. Ours, yet 20-30 years old are still relatively new. I'll be looking forward to when I'm 50+ years old walking by a 3rd gen saying "Hey I remember that".

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Hell I do that now.

I put a lot of work and money into my 355 and I wish I had just gone with an LS swap now. Screw the LS1, way too expensive. you get a 6.0 or 5.3 truck engine with aluminum heads, throw an LS1 intake/oil pan and trans in your car and go to town. Those little 5.3's are 300hp stock, compared to L98 at 245. Put a big roller cam in there and you'll toast stock LS1's all over the place in fourth gens (thirdgens are lighter so they tend to, with equal power, beat a 4th gen). Plus if you keep the EFI, you get better gas mileage and better streetability.

blakecharles

I work at the federal building in SF with the EPA (they set the smog standards for the state). They are working to pass a law that will ban the use of carb cars and some injected...

as if that's not bad enough, even cars that where smog exempt will be forced off the road unless they swap the engine from a car 1995 or newer and get certified by a state ref..

cali sux, forcing such a thing on us. the 1st generation platforms will be a thing of the past.

Guest

That'll make me do a 180 real quick. I suddenly love Obama for working to force Cali to stop doing their own smog laws and start complying with federal laws.
The only good thing about that Cali news is that '95 LT1s were still OBD1.
When I go to a car show, and I see an obsolete engine has been "built", I just ...IDK. There's no sense in trying to save any engine that has the valves in the block. Way too inefficient.
Maybe once real enthusiasts get control over direct injection, then I'll be able to love it.
But what Cali is trying to do is like trying to make it illegal to be poor. That can't be. Riding a bus to work isn't so bad, but they'd have to add so many busses and routes...and make riding free...it can't be done. They try, they'll see a real revolt.
And the few remaining old cars aren't even any problem anyway.
Their leadership has lost touch with the needs and desires of the average guy. People don't follow such leaders. Never have, never will.

DON 88T/A

The lsx platform will most likely never even approach the original sbc legacy...the original sbc has been installed in millions of cars and trucks over the past 55 years,and has an aftermarket that is more than most other engine familys combined...fewer cars today have v8 engines in them,and I'm afraid if things continue(cafe,global warming crap,ect) there will be very few cars if any in the next 10-15 years that will even have the option of a v8...thus fewer engines made,fewer available....I doubt we are going to see 400hp sedans,eventually this horsepower craze will drop off,and even if we do I bet its from a direct injected v6,which btw are now approaching the stock numbers ls1 were making just 10 short years ago....that said its just too easy to make a 500hp sbc today,and much ,much more with the proper parts...so no its not going anywhere

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

lsx motors are becoming more popular for their reliability, fuel economy, and good street manners at high horsepower levels. However, they require a lot more wiring and tuning than the old school stuff, which will always be a turn off to some. The SBC will live on because of these people - simple, cheap, and they work.

If I ever get around to doing another swap, I'd like to do up a mutt - sbc motor with lsx fuel/ignition control. Cheap, readily available engine parts with great power at all rpms and very drivable in any weather while also keeping the MPGs up.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone figured out how to run the LSx on OBD1?

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

a bit of a step backwards; slower refresh rate, requires burning chips, limited tuning, less feedback (error codes) compared to OBD2. not at all worth the time and money required to make something like that happen.

however, there are a couple of great threads of putting the lsx pcm setup on a gen 1 block with some very nice results.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Use a distributor kit and sure or possibly build a megasquirt system for it. Dare I ask why this is even crossing your mind? OBDII isnt hard and is MUCH better

GMPP and a few others offer carb intakes so even "EFI sux!, tune it with a screwdriver" kind of people have nothing to gripe over. On top of all that lots and lots of companies offer harness services or brand new stand alone systems to minimize the troubles of the customer

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

meh, just curious. I've got a 2004 Malibu V6 running on OBD1 in my '89. It was pretty easy.

OBD1 has some advantages, the major one being that it's much cheaper to tune... and you can tune on the fly with an emulator which is great.

just my opinion.. now back on topic.



IMO, Gen 1 SBC's will never go away, they're dirt cheap to build and maintain and they are just so easy to work on.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Things is, to make performance, you have a few options if a crate motor is not your thing:

1) Buy a core 350, might get lucky, score a Vortec 350 and use the short block with some head work to make them work with a cam worth a damn, add springs, pushrods, new cam, roller rockers, intake, distributor, and extra money for a real ignition, ect, it adds up and you are limited by RPM due to the heavier valve train and smallish heads, or spend aq butt load on heads and ect, to make it run decent.

2) A big block that has not so friendly header selection for clearance ect, poor fuel economy, expensive to build and heavy.

3) Get a 4.85.3,6.0, used 200$ cam, 300$ for some springs and pushrods and spin 7000 RPM making allot of power and screaming revs from a junkyard dog.


The SBC is a remnant, they work and work well, but the budget and aftermarket unlimited ability of the GEN III/IV has the SBC looking like what it is, a dinosaur.

So, in the end, the SBC is with the res of the motors, it can run as good as anything with a unlimited amount of cash.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Similar ramblings last year:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...about-lsx.html