87irocftw

Hey Guys my name is Vince, about a year ago I picked up a 87 Irocz with a 305 4-barrel. For the past year I have been building a 327. This motor has redone heads casting last three 041 sbc 350 heads Big ***** Thumpr Cam, Full Roller 1.6r comp with Comp roller lifters. Not that you all care about that I'm just stating for more information. Now what I am doing is trying to eliminate CC carb. I was told i need about an 800-850 carb. I wanna do a nonCC. Im only going to use the ECT and Oil Pressure along with the Trans connecter which i believe is the VSS or ? So by eliminating most pollution wires and what not would I need to buy a lockout kit for Torque converter or by leaving the trans connector connected I don't need to purchase one? Any help would be awesome. Sorry Im a terrible explainer. Thanks.

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

i would think 800-850 carb is gonna be way to much unless this is a big HP motor. Am only running a 750 on my 500hp 383. What exactly is the question with your torque convertor?

Guest

I think you'll need to buy a kit, but I'm not sure. That cam makes no vacuum, so I'm not sure TCI's adjustable kit would work. The B&M kit is mPH-based, and adjustable.
But with that cam, you may not even need OD, let alone lockup, unless you're running 4.10:1 gears.
And I'd be looking at a Demon 650 carb.
You still need to connect the TV cable, TCI makes brackets.
Considering the cubes, the heads, and the cam, I'd guess 399 HP at 6100 rpm, but I'd love to see a desktop dyno on your combo. I'd expect it to need a 3500-stall.

camaronewbie

Info on TCC control: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...c-control.html

Most of us buy a kit for it - kinda depends on the year of the tranny, and which switch it has inside (normally open or normally closed).

The TCI kit will still work, but with no vacuum, you'll have to use the manual switch option (not many folks like the vacuum switch method anyway - always seems to lock the TC too soon for our driving tastes - and so we just use a manual switch with the TCI or similar kits).

I'm pretty sure that carb would be too big as well.

Ditto on the TV cable - you'll need a good sturdy throttle bracket for it as well as a geometry corrector to attach it to the carb linkage.

87irocftw

Correct, I know I will not produce any vaccum what so ever. To compincate for this my dad, who is all old school, wants to run an external electric fuel pump straight carb then use the mechanical pump as vaccum because a mechanical pump makes about 12 hg or how ever vaccum is measured correct?

Also what I was asking and i think i got the answer about the Torque Converter is by removing all the pollutiuon sensors would that not send signal to comp therefor not locking or unlocking converter? I can get specs if needed about this. This is what troubles me.

DD
http://tinypic.com/r/2aabrr6/7

87irocftw

Also Im not gonna lie, I didnt know what a TV cable was until I just looked it up. Its a kickdown cable? My car already has one? Or are you saying a need a new one?

Guest

All 700R-4s use a TV cable. It controls a lot more than just the kickdown. You can't get rid of it, even if you use TCI's constant-pressure valve body.
The fuel pump for vacuum is new to me. Seems interesting.

87irocftw

Right, Im not saying i want to get rid of the TV cable? What I am asking is with eliminating the emissions junk would i need to run a lockout kit? or by leaving the trans sensor connected to the comp will it still either lockout or lockin itself as if i never removed any eletric componets? Does this make sense?

camaronewbie

1987 factory carbed car is going to have an electric fuel pump already in the tank that "assists" in sending fuel to the mechanical fuel pump on the block - so if swapping for an external fuel pump, you'll need to keep the intank pump working, or drop the tank and remove it - otherwise you'll kill any external pump trying to draw fuel through a non-functioning in-tank pump (too much restriction).

I also never heard of making a mechanical fuel pump into a vacuum creation devise.

87irocftw

Correct, I have dropped my tank in order to clean it out. The car has been sitting since 92 in a garage and the fuel smells like varnish. I am keeping the intake pump working also. I was going to run the external to the intake pump lines and have it suck from there. I guess the whole science behind the mechanical pump as my father was telling me because he used to do it all the time when he was little is... You block the inlet side off and as the diaphragm in the pump contracts and what not it creates a suction. then the outlet you just run that what will be to my brake booster to cause vaccum. I might be backwards on what gets blocked but that is what he told me. He used this method back in the day when hilborn fuel inj came out and says it works like a charm.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

What do you plan on doing with this car? That should dictate your parts selection. So far it just seems like a mix of what your buddy's uncle's friend's cousin who knew someone who drag raced in the 70's would say to put on it. This is one of those builds that makes you cringe because you know it isn't going to end well.

A 650 carb would be more than enough to feed that engine.

I'm ashamed of Comp for coming out with that Thumpr series of cams.

You mentioned keeping "ECT". I assume you mean the electronic spark control. That system requires using the computer carb (unless you want to tackle rigging up a throttle position sensor - and I believe someone is offering such an add-on now - good luck).

The connector on the transmission is for the torque converter clutch (TCC) lock-up and 4th gear sensor. If there is a speedometer cable on the tailshaft housing (which there should be for an '87 Camaro), the VSS is located on the back of the speedometer.

The ECM won't know when to lock up the TCC unless it has the signals from the TPS and the computer distributor (and I believe the MAP sensor comes into play as well).

Using an external electric fuel pump when the car came with one in the tank just doesn't make a lick of sense to me for anything driven on the street. You could use an in-tank with a regulator to feed the carb directly. But, if it's going to be too difficult to explain to your dad, go ahead and use what he says.

A cam that makes some vacuum also makes more sense to me than trying to make a liquid pump try to pump vapor.

fireburdluvr85

too much carb! youll drown the poor thing. from your parts selection its safe to say you'll only drive it to the track? with what your trying to build why bother having tcc? why not tweak your stock ccc system to work with this motor? im sure it can be done.

87irocftw

@Five 7 Kid, ECT I meant Engine coolant Temp sensor, By eliminating the spark control I would just covert to vacuum advance correct? That would not run off the comp then?

Too be honest everything started with cam. I knew what I was getting into and the purpose of the car to me really is to have a ground beater, not everyday driver, fun toy that I can get on and enjoy the heck out of and just be glad that I build my own car and wasnt funded by my daddy.

Five7, I am also using the external because of this "Vacuum Mechanical Pump" That my pops claims to work. So the soul purpose of the external is to aid the pump already in the tank in getting fuel directly to the carb and not the mechanical pump. Now I cant recall but I believe its a 3 wire plug in the fuel tank. power ground to pump then signal to fuel level float? Would it be smart to just keep the float and run the external line directly into the tank?

Sorry Im a little new at building cars I currently go to school for Auto but I got the Old man pops at home that wont move past the 90s when it comes to cars. So in a way Im learning both.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Ah, CTS, "coolant temperature sensor". So I did a bunch of talking for nothing. I see what you meant now.

The CTS only feeds data to the ECM. The engine temperature gauge uses the sending unit in the driver side head.

If I started with that cam (and I just had to use that cam), the next thing I would look for would be a 400 block to build. But, then again, we still haven't heard what you'll be using the car for once it's running.

I wouldn't rely on the factory in-tank pump. I would upgrade it to something like the Walbro 255. That would feed the engine by itself without the need for the external. The factory carb in-tank pumps are notorious for failing, so even if you used an external, the factory in-tank pump will probably have to come out. Rather than spending the time and $'s modifying the system for the external, the Walbro would fit right in place of the factory in-tank. And, if you use any kind of in-tank pump, you need a return-style regulator (the factory used the mechanical pump as the regulator).

87irocftw

Okay, My fathers friend had this completely 327 and wanted some crazy money for it and was asking my pops for years. This happened way before i had a car about IDK 6 or 7 years before. Now When he heard i aquired this IROCZ he said you know what screw it, 300 and its yours. So instead of going out and buying a JY motor I bought this instead. A brand new rebuilt well kept motor.

Now my purpose for this car is well to just have a head turner and something different. Yes rag on my cam, my fahter did the same and tried to get me to come a step down but I want to try something different. I would like the purpose as i said to be a head turner ground shaker, Not everday driver. Also i would like to bracket race on the weekend. Did I go overkill? Much so but you know your only young once and you spend your money on stupid things. IDK to me I dont think its stupid I think its something different.

Also I like this Walbro idea. Because Im attempting this mechanical pump vacuum opperation (Which if it does work I shall post pictures so no one thinks im crazy) I would just run that line from tank straight to carb. Now a "Return Style Regulator?" Would I splice a fuel regulator into the line somewhere? Or are you telling me I would need to run a separate return line?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

3rd gens all had a fuel return line. If you do the Walbro in-tank pump, you would put the regulator, like the Mallory 4309, in the engine compartment. The stock supply line (the 3/8" one) would be connected to the inlet of the regulator. The output from the reg would go to the carb. The return or "by-pass" from the reg would go to the factory return line (the 5/16" one). It's always a good idea to have a filter between the pump and regulator.

87irocftw

Sounds good to me. I post up some pictures of this later on. thankyou

87irocftw

Hey Five um kinda random not having to do with much question here but I was just spinning my oil pump shaft with a long flat head and a drill and i sprung a leak out the oil filter. Now When I bought the 327 it had a canister on it and i got a oil filter adapter part number GM 395 2302, There should be a gasket with that adapter or does it just bolt on with no gasket?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

{Edit}That's the spin-on mount for spin-on blocks. It won't work on canister blocks.

You need an adapter.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/M...+on+oil+filter

87irocftw

Ohhh I see I see Thankyou!