88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

This build has been in progress for almost a year, I just never posted up a build thread.

I got my car in April of 2010. She's a fairly clean 1988 Trans Am GTA with a 305 TPI, and a 700r4.

By May 2010, I had posted the first of a few threads contemplating putting a bigger engine in there.

by June, I had a core motor sitting in my shop.

My original plan was to shoot for 400 hp at the crank using cast iron vortec heads and a HSR.

It has evolved into a minimum of 500 CHP from a 4-bolt main roller block, with a forged crank, I-beams, and forged Probe Flat-tops, AFR 195 heads, a comp 503 cam, and a Victor E single plane intake.

Enough reading. Now for pics:
The car the day I brought her home:


My first mod was a cold air intake:




The core engine I bought for $75, in hopes that it was rebuildable. It had been sitting open in the scrapyard for a while and it was full of water. It was not rebuildable. Block had a spun main, both vortec heads were cracked.






Engine parts:
After I decided to go with the AFRs instead of Vortecs, I had to swap pistons to get some more compression.These are Icon 19cc dish pistons.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I ended up buying a block from the machine shop. He misunderstood and though I wanted an "early roller block" meaning flat tappet block with retrofit roller lifters This was an old guy that builds the same engine over and over again for dirt track racers. He's pretty good at what he does, just gets confused easily. He recognized his mistake, and had me a fresh block 3 days later.






More to come.... Tomorrow

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Got some red paint on the block, and the AFR 195 heads, as well as the new Probe Flat top pistons. Some assembly pics too.






The first Victor E intake I'd seen show up on ebay appeared the same day I was gonna order it on summit. I got it for a steal on ebay. The Comp rockers were on sale too, so I upgraded to the Ultra Magnum full rollers. I had to mill the sides of the intake near the injector bosses to get it to sit down on the ports because of my zero decked block. It helps being a machinist . I haven't run into anything yet that I couldn't custom make or modify to fit.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Out with the 5.Slow I figured it would be easier without the fenders and bumper on. I'm glad I pulled them off, it prolly saved them from some scrapes and scuffs too.




Modifying the wiring harness, removing AC and EGR and such. I didn't actually cut all the wires out, I just coiled them inside the fender area. Its a must to have a service manual here. I had about 50 pages printed out during this stage.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Taking care of the rust in the engine bay with POR 15
Before:



After: You can see the reflection from the garage door in the black paint!

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I absolutely hate that plastic convoluted tubing that comes covering all the wiring harnesses. I replaced it all with TechFlex braided sleeving. It makes the wiring harnesses almost disappear. Its a little more expensive, but its worth it IMO.




It was a little bit of a fight to get the serpentine belt set up. I had to custom make a bracket for an idler pulley. I think it turned out pretty nice.



After I got the accessory mounts figured out, it was time to drop in the motor. This was just last weekend



I put the TPI intake and factory exhaust back on for the first start and break in, then I'll swap over to the single plane. I need to buy bigger injectors and a fuel rail for the Victor manifold. This pic was taken to show the serpentine belt, after about the fourth try, I finally got the length right!

And that's pretty much how it sits now. I am waiting on my starter and valve covers, which should be here early this week, and I still have a few parts to bolt back on. First start should be Tuesday or Wednesday. I have to say I'm a little apprehensive. This is the first engine I've built, and I have a lot of time and money into it. I'd really hate to see it go BOOM within 15 min of starting it up.

Goofyfoot08

Good luck with it. I hope my engine looks that good when I get to it.

gbayfisher

Wow,
Very nice build you have there!
Which fuel system are you using?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys!
The TPI is on there for the initial start and break in only. As soon as I can afford new injectors and fuel rails, I'll swap over to my Victor E intake and an LS1 throttle body. I'll prolly go with a wallbro 255lph in tank fuel pump and a mallory FPR. I'll have to pick up some braided line for inside the engine compartment at least.

Think -6 AN line will be big enough to feed this thing? I would rather leave the factory lines in place for now. 30 ft of braided stainless is EXPENSIVE

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

I used a -8 line for the fuel rail and -6 for the return. Why do u need 30ft? Your going to run it from the bay to the tank? I bought a 6th -8 and a 3ft -6, cost about $60. Not including all the an fitting which was an extra $70. Cars looking good

gbayfisher

I also plan to leave the factory lines in place for the mean time. now that you mentioned it, I wonder what they will flow?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well, she lives!!
Fired right up on the first turn of the key. I've gotta edit a video. My brother was on the camera, so the video came out upside down. All in all, he got me about 3 seconds of good footage.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Here's a short video of the car idling. Its about all the good video my brother got
I didn't ever get the car to idle nicely, but I didn't have a timing light, and I didn't wanna run it too long on such an off tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujhHye69SrM

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I adjusted the valves and fixed my idler alignment so the PS pump doesn't rattle anymore. It still seems I have a little bit of noise from the valvetrain. In the video, when I walk around to the passenger side of the engine compartment, you may be able to hear it. Let me know if you guys think it sounds like there's something wrong. This is my first real experience with an engine like this one, and I'm kinda lost when it comes to listening to it.

http://youtu.be/2dCYthLKMXk

gbayfisher

I see your brother was filming again? upside down videographer, lol.

I am no expert, but i would say there is some excessive valvetrain noise on the passenger side.
I believe i have read somewhere here that the Pro comps can be a bit noisy.
Sounds more clunky than a click sound to me? Can you recheck the lash or go a little tighter

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

oops. No that was me this time. It came out right on my iPhone, but flipped when I uploaded it to my computer!


Pro Comps, or Comp Pro Magnums. I have the latter. I don't know what any of that stuff sounds like. Whether its detonation, piston slap, or anything else.

I did run it until the fans came on, but it wasn't at operating temp in the video.

gbayfisher

Comp pro Mag, that i know of anyway.
Doesn't sound like piston slap to me, I would verify your valve geometry first.
Maybe someone with more expertise can chime in?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

The geometry was verified on the stand. Although, maybe it could be the added lift of my cam is causing the factory type lifters to contact the dogbones, causing the clicking? I'll let it run for a while more tomorrow, and try to get some light down inside the lifter valley and check if I can see any movement of the dogbones or this spider. I've never heard of that happening, and I doubt it would cause any problems other than the noise.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well I think I finally have the valves adjusted right. Once the engine warms up the noise quiets down a bit.

Here's the latest video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwAOb760JBM

gbayfisher

Did you tweak anything? It does sound more quiet.
What are you using for a tune?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I found out the locknuts should have been tightened a full turn instead of 1/4 turn. and this video was taken with the engine almost at operating temp.

gbayfisher

Thats good! When are you going to start tuning?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I ordered $200 worth of crap from moates.net yesterday, and also the bearing I needed to get my steering column put back together.

After watching a bunch of videos on youtube, I've decided that there is definitely a "extra" noise coming from one or two lifters. I'd be willing to bet its the two that lost their oil prime when I was adjusting the valves. I think the rest of the lifters sound normal though.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I'm getting pretty frustrated about this engine noise thing.

The noise seems most pronounced by listening directly on top of the intake plenum. I have absolutely no idea whats causing it. Lifters seem to be working right, and the noise won't be quieted by pushing down on any of them while its idling. The two lifters that lost their prime yesterday are pumped back up, and were still solid after sitting all night.

there is a slight mark on the valve stem directly in the center, as it should be if pushrod length is right....

I'm lost guys. Any ideas?

gbayfisher

If you have a stethoscope, try getting in tighter for a listen. its so hard to tell from a video. If you think it is more pronounced while listening from above the intake, I would think lifter? What lifteres are you using?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I was gonna pick up a stethoscope today, but I forgot after picking up those headers.

I've been using a screwdriver held up to my ear with good results.

Placing the screwdriver on each rocker stud, I can tell the sounds of each individual lifter. they each sound a little different, with the biggest differences being between exhaust and intake valves. The noise is very pronounced when listening ANYWHERE on the intake or exhaust manifolds, but becomes muffled when listening at any point on the head. The block varies, from louder at the top to quieter at the bottom. My IMPRESSION is that its towards the back of the motor, but placing the screwdriver on the front or the back, I can't tell them apart by sound. There is absolutely no extra noise when cranking the engine over without ignition.

Couple of brainstorming ideas:

I have the EGR in place, but vac and electrical is eliminated from it, and the extra ports were capped. (EXCEPT for the port on the egr valve itself, which should just be for activation of the valve, right?)
I also checked to see if any of the intake bolts were contacting the pushrods, there is at least .1" clearance everywhere.


EDIT: These are my lifters: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-850-16/ Comp cams OEM style, OEM plunger travel roller lifters.

gbayfisher

Which SBC intake bolts are most likely to hit the push rods? I would back the bolts on the intake one by one to see if it is hitting. Can you verify the bolt lengths?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I'm not using an intake bolt kit. The original TPI bolts wouldn't work. But no, they're not hitting the pushrods. I was grasping at straws with that one.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well I took the intake manifold off today. I still haven't found any reason for the noise.

I did find out that the spring rates on the valve springs that came on the AFR heads are 38# higher than the springs that comp recommends for my cam.
Seat pressure is the same, however open pressure is like 40# higher than the comps. Could that cause the lifters to be forced down every time the valve opens?

After stopping the engine, valves at full lift will close down quite a bit within a couple minutes cuz of the lifter plunger being forced down. I'm gonna call comp and see if they can't help, since I have all their components from timing set to rocker arms.

The next time I put an intake on this motor, it will be the victor. Anybody got a line on a 4 barrel throttle body for cheap?

gbayfisher

Dont know what to say about the clacking, can it be something other than valvetrain? Def call comp to see what they say about the springs. All your lifters look o.k?

gbayfisher

Does Edelbrock make a SBC Victor with injector bungs built in?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Yep, "Victor E" is your search term. A handful of other manufacturers make them too. Check out the Alternative Port EFI Intake board.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Wow, I haven't done anything post-worthy in an entire week.

I made a call to Comp on Monday, they didn't have a whole lot to say about the noise. They suggested "burping" the lifters since there may be an air bubble in one or two of them, I tightened the locknuts down until the valves opened .100" or so, to force the plungers down, and I'll readjust the valves when I start it again. They also suggested running it at about 2500rpm for around 20 min. I haven't gone much past 2000 since I don't know what the tune looks like. Comp said my valve springs, while slightly heavy, shouldn't be causing any problems.

I finally ordered my missing steering column bearing, and put the rest of the column back together in anticipation of it getting here. Pretty much all that's left is the turn signal switch and the wheel.

I also ordered a ported stock LS1 throttle body and the appropriate sensors. I priced out my fuel line fittings, fuel rails, hose, and regulator, but that's gonna have to wait til next week to order. That stuff ain't cheap.

I'll have to make a "carb spacer" type of adapter to put the TB on the victor, and adapt some DIY CAI stuff from the parts store to duct the air in from the MAF for now.

I can't afford fuel injectors yet either. I'll crank up the pressure and abuse my factory 19# ones for now. Should allow me to get to 3500 rpm or so :-/

I also port matched my intake manifold to AFR's recommendations, leaving .050" all the way around.


Hopefully I'll be more motivated next week. Maybe I'll even put the front end back on

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

Aint that the truth! My jaw dropped when i bought all my AN fittings and braided fuel lines

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

How did you run yours? All my fittings seem like they would work best with 90* connections. Either you get a 90* adapter and a straight hose end, or a straight adapter and a 90* hose end.

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

i only bought 1 90 degree elbow for the return line off the regulator, the rest are straight. My regulator is on the wheel well, i took out my windshield washer resovior, am going to put a custom box for it . i used the braided lines which helped

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well I got my fuel system installed yesterday. Tuesday night I had a slight mishap with dropping a bolt down an injector bung :-/ Thats when I quit for the night. Luckily the intake valve was closed, and I was able to fish it out with a magnet the next day.

I got the hoses assembled and everything I could mocked up, except for the two fittings that are backordered.

I also tested where the LS1 TB will sit, and it's not lookin so good as far as hood clearance goes. I might be able to find a lower profile water neck, and I'm not sure where its gonna sit front to back, so I may be able to notch something and make it work.

gbayfisher

Lucky you got the bolt out!
hope you can figure out how to make the hood clear?
My new intake is sitting about 1 inch higher than factory, not sure how much room there is. No hood looks good on a Gta except for factory, so it has to work!

Your AFR, is it mounted directly to the rails?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Yes, my FPR is mounted right off the end of a fuel rail using non swivel adapters. I will prolly make a stainless bracket going down to an intake bolt.

gbayfisher

I think you should be ok with it directly to the rail, I may do the same.
This fuel delivery stuff is a pain!

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, but the way it sits, there's about a quarter turn of play in there, so I'd just tie it to the manifold to keep it upright like it belongs. Make sure you got enough room for it up there, they're bigger than you think!

I made a little MS paint sketch showing the different fittings and stuff that I would need, but I still ended up ordering an extra fitting! It is definitely a pain, not to mention expensive

gbayfisher

I hear you. I think I may be lucky.. My friend has a box of fittings and lines from various projects! I am going to go rape his stash tomorrow.

Did you make your cross over out of braid or regular rubber?

gbayfisher

You are putting the inlet on the left and return on right, correct?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Which left? Lol

Inlet is on the drivers side, outlet on the passenger side. FPR is positioned after the rail. I did use braided line to cross from rail to rail.

gbayfisher

Yes, that's the right left..........? lol,
Drivers side being left is what I meant.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Wow, cant believe i missed this. NIce build! I would have gone next size up on the cam but it will make good power.

No idea on the noise tho, may be lifters but its hard to tell from videos. Sure its not an exhaust leak? they can have same sound as a lifter or even a loose rocker.

Lifter preload at 1/4 turn is light but best for drag racing. They will be abit noisey at times like this. A full turn is better for long term reliability but can cost you a few hp if the lift is compromised. Nothing to worry about on a street/strip build tho.

Spring pressure is fine. Those lifters should be ok, and comparable to LS7 style lifters or stock OEM types. I never used a comp lifter since LS7's work and so much cheaper

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Orr!

I'm leaning towards octane detonation on the noise. We'll see what happens next time I fire it. I'll put in 5 gal of race fuel. The EGR may have been loose/leaking too. After taking that TPI on and off a couple times, I was done messing with it, so that's why I put the Victor on right away.

I ordered an intake elbow from 6061.com today, so the last few things I need to figure out are the throttle cable, the water neck/radiator hose, and intake tubing between the MAF and TB.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

It shouldnt be detonating at idle with that setup with 93 oct. Compression is up near 11 to 1 and with that cam you have high dynamic compression but should still run. Ofcourse still need to work the tune

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

It had 89 and some octane booster :-/ Our town was out of premium that week. And really, come to think of it, it did seem to get worse after I set the timing at 10* instead of doing it by ear.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well, I got a few things straightened out this weekend. The body is completely reassembled, my interior is all put back together except for the hush panels (I'll need easy access to the ECM for the next few months ). I also figured out why my turn signals didn't work, I forgot to reconnect a wiring harness connector when I was in the steering column .

As soon as I receive my intake elbow, I'll be able to see where everything will sit, and I can figure out vacuum routing and stuff. Then I'll still have plenty of time before my backordered fuel fittings get here to give her a bath and get her all ready to hit the road