gbayfisher

I hope it works for you.

I take it, the tank drop went well? I had to do mine twice, hated it.

The pump might quite down with fuel in the tank.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

It went pretty smoothly. I'm thinking some of the noise was due to the empty tank. Either way, my exhaust is louder!

gbayfisher

That cures it than! Are you taking it for a run today?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Timing wasn't advancing like it should.


Fuel pump was a much needed upgrade though.

Not sure if my dizzy moved, or if I just had a bad connection at the EST bypass connector. I got about 10*(base) to 20* total....

gbayfisher

You confirmed this with a gun at the timing marks?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Yes. It idles much better than it did before as well. Just before I noticed the problem I've been fighting, I recall it started wanting to stall when I shifted from park to drive. Pretty sure it's the main root of my troubles.

Once again I was interrupted by work, so I won't know for sure til tomorrow...

gbayfisher

I have often wondered myself if I have the same issue, just never had the time to confirm that the timing is advancing properly, and compared for accuracy on tuner pro data log.

You needed the pump anyway, so thats done now! Back to tuning.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well it worked! My car is back to it's full potential now. Also, AE and PE feel much more predictable now. Didn't get a chance to do any tuning, but i think it will go much more smoothly. I had to stop and pull my rear tires off before heading in to work, I get to pick up my new tires tomorrow AM, and then I'll try to hammer out the tune.

MNGMP fall cruise is Sunday, and that's what's been the big push to get everything straightened out. I also got a bunch of little stuff done that I should have finished up a long time ago such as a coil bracket and locking header bolts installed.

gbayfisher

What worked? Did you find the issue with the dizzy?

What tires you going to run?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I just re-set the timing. If it moves again, I'll tear into it.

I'm going with Kumho Ecsta ASTs. They were the cheapest I'll just burn this pair off anyway.

gbayfisher

So it moved on you?

Thought maybe your were going with some drag radials!

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well I can say my car has finally proved itself. With any major modification, it takes a while for me to be able to rely on that car to not break down or leave me stranded. Yesterday, I took it on a 170 mile run with about 40 cars from mngmp, with tires squealing from every stop sign and around most of the tight corners.

It was a lot of fun and the only problems I had were a squealing belt for 5 sec on startup and one drop of oil that I noticed from my cheap valve covers.


(don't mind the stang, we were allowed to invite friends, and not all of them were blessed with GMs, my bro drove my DD turbo galant )

gbayfisher

Nice to hear about the fun weekend

How did it run?
Now you need to take it to the track to see if it can take half dozen WOT runs!

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

That is a SWEET engine man. And a very noice car.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Thanks! Lots of things I hope to improve on it this winter. I already have the front end torn apart to redo the suspension, brakes, and steering.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Wow, it's been 4 months since my last post to this thread.

My car is back out on the streets after being cooped up all winter. New this season are a speed density tune via dynamicefi.com's EBL P4 flash and the much improved intake tubing that eliminating the MAF allows, and new to me hooker 2210 1 3/4" primary long tube headers and dual spintech exhaust. The hooker headers dump into a 3" h-pipe, and 3" oval tube directs exhaust through two spintech low profile mufflers and turndown just ahead of the axle. The result is much less drone at highway speeds and the distinctive spintech race muffler sound from the outside.

Other mods that went on the car this winter are LS1 brakes with cross drilled and slotted rotors, a full compliment of Moog steering components, Lakewood 90/10 drag struts, and Founders Performance Caster/Camber plates. I also finally located a non-AC heater box and freed up the space to put on my Edelbrock cast valve covers. I really underestimated the amount of space the non AC box would free up!

Here's a short idle video with the new exhaust:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blJyR...e_gdata_player

gbayfisher

Wow.. 4 mths? lol. Time flies, but at least you kept busy with the car.
Nice job. Car sounds great, and is running very well. Cant wait to hear it at rpm!
So.... fine tune, tires, than drag strip? lol

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Sure, as long as I can get a trailer to bring the car home on! With sticky tires, I'll give the 10 bolt 6 passes, 7 if I take out the sub and spare tire lol. A 9" is in works though. I figure I can get one built the way I want it for $2000.

gbayfisher

Haha, def no need to test the 10 bolt too hard!
I've been shopping for a diff as well, too many darn options and hard to get it for under 3k. What type of set up can you get for 2k?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

http://bit.ly/GVwGDh
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-.../media/?page=2

gbayfisher

Thats a decent way to do it. With a little welding and fab skills you are good to go. What do you do for the torque arm?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

A picture's worth a thousand words. I just drew this up in solidedge to show the idea that's bouncing around in my head. There's no real dimensions or anything, its just a pic showing how I'll make the torque arm clear the third member and attach via rod ends to the steel housing instead of worrying about attaching something to the cast center pig.

gbayfisher

That should work, thought i have seen it done somewhere, cant remember where.
What kind of forces are we talking about here? Curious.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well 500 ft lbs of torque would be 500 lbs force at 12" which is what I've drawn the two axle points at, so with a standard factor of safety of 4, the attachment points will each have to withstand 2000 lbs. A standard 7/8" grade 8 bolt is capable of a working load of 72,000 lbs, so I think I'll be fine with the standard run of the mill 7/8" rod ends. 500ft lbs at a distance of 48" is only 125 lbs of force on the torque arm mount. 1" DOM .125 wall tube will be plenty sufficient for a torque arm I think. Like I said, this is all off the top of my head, I'll do some analysis on it later.

adamcc91

Hey, i couldnt help but notice from your video that you live in wisconisn, are you bringing your car to auto motion this may in the dells?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Never heard of that event, I'll look into it. So far all I'm planning on is April 7 at Rock Falls, and Powercruise at BIR.

Drifter92

Beautiful engine

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's the way Quick Performance does their f-body 9" housing.

As for the forces, take the engine torque, multiply by the first gear ratio and the rear end ratio, and divide by the moment distance.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the physics help! I knew I was missing something.

I just discovered the quick performance housing. It looks like a very nice piece. I'd be tempted if I wasn't tempted into going with coil overs. I'd like to put the bottom mount bolt in double shear.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The QP mounting allows side-to-side movement of the TA. This fatigued the adjustable link on my Trak Pak TA, which failed on the 15th launch. It wasn't pretty.

I still have a rumble above 45 MPH that I can't locate. It's been frustrating.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Ouch. I doubt that would be very pretty. Question though, with my torque arm design above, wouldn't that eliminate the "extra" rod ends you would have with torque arms that were meant to mount in factory locations, and so eliminate any side to side play other than at the rod ends? Would this failure have occurred if you were running a factory torque arm?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

^Still wondering about those couple of questions if you can chime back in five7kid.

Took her to the drag strip today and got a best pass of 12.76 at 109. 60' times suck on street tires, but the car didn't miss a beat. I had a blast!

gbayfisher

Do you think it could be due to the wide span from the upper to lower mounting points to the centre housing? I'm by no means a pro or engineer, but it looks wide, and far from the housing, just 'looks' unstable to me and i can see components flexing.

Congrats on the track times! some impressive times so far. Time for a diff and tires.
You made short work of tuning? lol.
If you are bored now, come tune mine! lol.

I can send you some pics of my UMI TA if you want some different design ideas, give you some food for thought......

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Since the force acting on the torque arm is rotation about the axle shafts, the further from the centerline of the axle, the stronger it is. The only issue with my design is the top bar effectively has a "bend" in it, which is always a potential weakness.

If you look at the quick performance housing, there are two rod ends on the top and bottom of the housing that allow for a small amount of misalignment. If you look at any of the aftermarket tubular torque arms, there is usually another rod end and an adjustment point at their rear mount bracket. This makes two joints that can flex side to side along the length of the torque arm, and it's easy to see how it could break. My torque arm design eliminates the second joint.


I can't imagine how you could be having trouble with the EBL! My tune is a little off, but I think it's due to my heat-soaked IAT sensor.

gbayfisher

Does going to the top of the diff not allow enough room to go straight? You need both adjustable joints to allow for pinion angle adjusment. Is there a third joint you mention?

I am not having issues with the EBL.... yet! But working on a sticky throttle body blade, idle hangs alot and driving me bonkers. I'm just getting swamped with work that tuning study time is rare, but I'm getting there.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I'm counting each pair of rod ends as a joint. If you look up the QP housing you will probably see what I mean. I will still have pinion angle adjustment with mine. And I think the shape of the floor pan won't allow for a straight top bar on the torque arm. Also, I may end up moving the center chunk a little to the passenger side to make a little more room for the torque arm if possible. Then I would end up having two different length axle shafts though...

gbayfisher

Dont think that would be worth all the trouble!
Backing up a bit here..... did you decide on which ear end yet? I know you were looking at that ebay one. Did you end up getting it?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Been a while.

Mark, if you're still wondering, I am pretty certain on the ebay stock car 9". There's just no way to beat a setup like that without spending a TON of cash. A co-worker has one of these 9", and hopefully he'll finish his '66 coupe so he can put some abuse on it before I make my final decision. NASCAR cuts some corners to sacrifice longevity for a couple more MPH, but I don't think the rear end is one of those places. That 9" is top notch.


For the real update, I just got done deleting power steering. The '85 S-10 manual box is a truly bolt-in affair, even down to the plastic flange that mates with the plastic cover on the steering shaft that used to snap around the power steering line.

The power steering pump bracket I had was the flimsiest part of my accessory setup, and now that its gone and all there is left to drive are the water pump and alternator, so the belt routing is much simpler. The bonus is I finally got rid of that annoying belt squeak and occasional squeal on startup!

Haven't driven it yet out of consideration for the neighbors, but it still takes two hands to turn the wheel without the car rolling, but barely. I think as soon as I'm going 5mph I will have no problems.

I finally picked up the new throttle and TV cable for my homemade 4-bbl TB project, and should have that installed and tested for real within the next couple days. The Lokar parts are worth the price IMO, their quality is excellent.


Also, I've had a pair of 26x11.5 R15 ET Street slicks sitting in the garage for the last few weeks, and now they've finally been joined by a pair of rims. I will drop them off tomorrow for mounting and an attempt at balancing them. (From reading elsewhere, I've gathered they are not easy to balance).


Next trip to the track is Saturday. Hopefully I can keep ahead of my buddy's Duramax, and he's hoping for a 12.2!

gbayfisher

Nice to hear about some progress.

Fyi, the housing/axle package is on for $650, thats $70 savings, not bad!
The Nascar unit is definately a cost effective package, so long as you have the fab skills to make it work, which you do so you're good to go. Looks like you will need a set of gears since the ebay units are steeply geared. What gear do you have planned?

Did you figure out the disapearing coolant issue yet?

Cant wait to see the track times with the tires, and it sounds like you have yourself a race! lol

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Any combination of gearing and spline count are available from the eBay seller I guess.

No, I never did figure out where my coolant was getting out. I'm guessing lower radiator hose. I have a new water pump now, so if I'm lucky I fixed it already lol.

I plan on using 3.73's to go well with a 26" drag tire, and decent highway rpm with a 28"ish tire.

gbayfisher

I love the 3.73 on mine, good everyday gear, and it will work even better on your combo.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well, my transmission mount bushing fell apart when I lowered the transmission to access the TV cable. At least it didn't come apart at the staging line.... Trans and TA bushings are on order. Should be back on the road by this weekend. I'm anxious to try out my throttle body and slicks!





Also note how simple everything is without power steering!

1gary

Yepper.It looks nice.

gbayfisher

Very clean, you can actually reach anything on your engine with out scrapping knuckles. How do you like the feel of no power steering?

Curious to hear about some track times. Did you run it last weekend?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Well I finally got her on the road today for a real test drive! I did a few VE learns and then proceeded beat the living crap out of the car

Lack of power steering isn't a hassle once you're out of the parking lot. A right turn from a stop sign takes 2 hands. But other than that, the steering just feels slightly dead. She's definitely not a corner carver anymore.

My throttle body works pretty good, I just need to work on getting it to idle down. I know its possible because when I flash the EBL, limp mode takes it down to about 600 rpm. I'm not quite sure how to attack it though. Maybe drop spark in the idle area? The other issue I'm having is that the throttle is EXTREMELY responsive. Crack the throttle just a bit and she really jumps!

The tires are pretty sweet, they hook well enough on the street, but I still grab a patch of rubber on a 2nd gear upshift. I think they'll hook just fine at the track, since I was still at 20psi today.

Next weekend I'll be racing, cruising, and generally giving the car a real hard time. Unfortunately, the drag racing is 1/8 mile, and started by a flag drop, so I won't have any times to report. Maybe I'll have to drop the $30 to get a couple dyno pulls!

gbayfisher

[quote=88gunmetalgta;5322798]Well I finally got her on the road today for a real test drive! I did a few VE learns and then proceeded beat the living crap out of the car

Lack of power steering isn't a hassle once you're out of the parking lot. A right turn from a stop sign takes 2 hands. But other than that, the steering just feels slightly dead. She's definitely not a corner carver anymore.

My throttle body works pretty good, I just need to work on getting it to idle down. I know its possible because when I flash the EBL, limp mode takes it down to about 600 rpm. I'm not quite sure how to attack it though. Maybe drop spark in the idle area? The other issue I'm having is that the throttle is EXTREMELY responsive. Crack the throttle just a bit and she really jumps!

The tires are pretty sweet, they hook well enough on the street, but I still grab a patch of rubber on a 2nd gear upshift. I think they'll hook just fine at the track, since I was still at 20psi today.

Next weekend I'll be racing, cruising, and generally giving the car a real hard time. Unfortunately, the drag racing is 1/8 mile, and started by a flag drop, so I won't have any times to report. Maybe I'll have to drop the $30 to get a couple dyno pulls![

Nice to hear that you are abusing her!!:nod

What do you mean by limp home when you flash? Haven't witnessed that I don't think. I would lock your idle sa in the bin for sure, and try to drop it down a few degrees. How does your iac look? For your lightning fast throttle response. How does the tps react during? I wonder if you throttle lever cam is swinging the blades too quickly.

Drag strip will be a lot of fun, but it would be nice to see some dyno pulls.

Who has tire do you have?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

When you hit flash, it goes into limp mode while it flashes the new bin in. That when the fan comes on. During that time, it idles down to about 600 rpm.

Tires are 26x11.5 ET Street bias plies.

I think the on off switch throttle is partially due to the 7* bias built into the blades. Or it may just take some getting used to...

gbayfisher

[quote=88gunmetalgta;5322798]Well I finally got her on the road today for a real test drive! I did a few VE learns and then proceeded beat the living crap out of the car

Lack of power steering isn't a hassle once you're out of the parking lot. A right turn from a stop sign takes 2 hands. But other than that, the steering just feels slightly dead. She's definitely not a corner carver anymore.

My throttle body works pretty good, I just need to work on getting it to idle down. I know its possible because when I flash the EBL, limp mode takes it down to about 600 rpm. I'm not quite sure how to attack it though. Maybe drop spark in the idle area? The other issue I'm having is that the throttle is EXTREMELY responsive. Crack the throttle just a bit and she really jumps!

The tires are pretty sweet, they hook well enough on the street, but I still grab a patch of rubber on a 2nd gear upshift. I think they'll hook just fine at the track, since I was still at 20psi today.

Next weekend I'll be racing, cruising, and generally giving the car a real hard time. Unfortunately, the drag racing is 1/8 mile, and started by a flag drop, so I won't have any times to report. Maybe I'll have to drop the $30 to get a couple dyno pulls![

Nice to hear that you are abusing her!!:nod

What do you mean by limp home when you flash? Haven't witnessed that I don't think. I would lock your idle sa in the bin for sure, and try to drop it down a few degrees. How does your iac look? For your lightning fast throttle response. How does the tps react? I wonder if you throttle lever cam is swinging the blades too quickly, you can use a progressive style cam.
Drag strip will be a lot of fun, but it would be nice to see some dyno runs!

Who has tire do you have?

gbayfisher

[quote=88gunmetalgta;5323134]When you hit flash, it goes into limp mode while it flashes the new bin in. That when the fan comes on. During that time, it idles down to about 600 rpm.

Tires are 26x11.5 ET Street bias plies.

I think the on off switch throttle is partially due to the 7* bias built into the blades. Or it may just take some getting used to...[/quote

Ok, so you flash with the car running. I always have mine off when I do it.

See how the throttle response grows on you, just dont let anyone drink hot coffee while in passenger side! lol. you can always tweak it in the future.
Take some video of the car running next weekend would you? Would be nice to see.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Pull some timing out off idle to take some of the torque out if its too jumpy