Fallen2603

IROCcobaltSS,

Yup, absolutely still planning on this swap. These motors are capable of great power and torque numbers for their size. Thanks for your support!

Fallen2603

Well, not the progress that everyone, including myself, has been waiting for, but it still counts. Been picking up parts from part-outs. Great deals, all of them.

First, a regular cylinder-head, but filled with stronger Supertech valvesprings and the valves from a supercharged LSJ 2.0L engine. The LSJ valves are sodium-filled to help stand up to more heat. The springs and valves together would cost close to $650, but I got them all for $375.







Next, Eagle forged, H-beam connecting-rods good up to 800HP. These normally go for $350, but I got them for $225.



The turbocharger manifold. These usually go for $300-$350. I got it for $150.



Some ARP main-studs. A set usually goes for about $420. I got these for $125.



Some 80lb. fuel-injectors. I got them in trade for a stock Ecotec cylinder-head, pistons, rods, and fuel-injectors. Basically, free.



Two wiring harnesses, a stock ECU, and a stock fuse-box. I got it all for $175. I'll be hacking this mess up for a "stand-alone" ECU and wiring-harness to be re-flashed with HPTuners.



This is probably part of the reason I don't have that TKO-500, yet, but it's really hard to pass up deals like this. Besides, I'll need all this stuff, someday.

Until later...

72vega

iTrader: (9)

hey man, even if ya dont have that trans, you're still movin forward with every part you get.

Fallen2603

72vega,

Thanks, man! That's how I prefer to think of it.

occupant

And this is why I am joining your 3Gorg forum and subscribing to this thread. I may never own a 3G F-body (though I would love an LB9/5-speed Formula, 88-89 or so, no airbag, maroon on black) but it's this kind of idea, "hey what if I did this" and hashing it out which keeps my interest. Please do continue handing haters a bus pass and directing them to the street corner where they can catch the F bus and a U transfer for a ride straight to hell...

These sort of ideas are what keep car culture fresh. I'm not even done reading all 9 pages of this thread.

OK, now I am. I'm thinking of buying a 68-69 Fairlane/Torino and dropping a 2.3L Duratec into it backed by a 6-speed manual. A 1968 Fairlane 2-door hardtop weighs just over 3000lbs with a six and automatic. 1st gen Focus could be anywhere from 2550lbs for a basic 2.0L/5-speed/no AC LX sedan model to nearly 2900lbs for an automatic ZTW wagon. I'm pretty sure I can find 100-200lbs to shave off a Fairlane if not much more. Then think about all the upgrades the Duratec can enjoy pushing it to double its stock output if not more. Not even a turbo needed to hit 300hp. Gearing will be needed to make the most of it

I am very interested in seeing this project succeed. If this 3xxx-pound Camaro of yours can pull its own weight with the Ecotec around town and still achieve 25mpg on the highway, then I can do the same with Ford bits.

I would do it with the '76 Torino sedan I have now but that is a 4178lb car with fumes in the tank and it's my baby. No, I don't even have the heart to shave it to 3999 let alone 3000 or less. It gets to keep a 351 for now, but the day some fool kid gets his supercharged hotdog 3.8L Mustang impounded and I manage to pick it up at an auction cheap...well...there will soon be a Cleveland V8 for sale on my local Craigslist.

Fallen2603, git r done...we're all behind you on this!

Fallen2603

occupant,

You have a way with words that is quite inspiring.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

THIS would be cool. The easiest way to shave that extra 100-200lbs would be a fiberglass hood and trunk-lid and, maybe, even some fiberglass fenders. I don't know if there's a good source for these, or if you even feel right putting fiberglass on a classic car. Some people don't.

Yeah, I'm looking at running at least 4.11's in the rear-end with my set-up.

I'm guessing my Camaro will end up weighing between 2,800-3,000lbs. Hell, my Cobalt SS Supercharged gets 29+MPG with only 205HP in a car weighing about 3,000lbs. The Solstice GXP is about the same way, weighing in at a little over 3,000lbs, too. We'll both be fine.

Yeah, that's a little bit different. Coupes are one thing, but sedans are another. Especially, a battleship of a car like that. A supercharged Essex V6 would make a nice home in their, though. I'd like to throw one of those motors into a '67 Mustang, if my dad ever wants to rebuild his.

Will do, man! And, thanks for the support!

Torchred87T/A

I dont like the idea all that much when I read the name and then I thought about it, the little 4 banger makes the same power that the third gens came with at least plus all the aftermarket support so I think its pretty cool now

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I understand where your coming from with that statement, and I know that some people just want to be different. I enjoy seeing the progress on this ecotech swap myself and it will def be a neat setup. In all honesty though (especially with an old muscle car like you spoke of), when you take out the original V8 powerplant and swap in a 4 cylinder engine, you are taking away from the original intended purpose and enjoyment of the car. It was designed to be a torquey, fun V8 sports car which it will no longer be. It will also sound ridiculous with any type of aftermarket exhaust on it. I do like the sound of a well tuned 4 cylinder engine, but only in a car it was designed for. This is just an opinion, but one that I'm sure 90% of people would agree on.

Fallen, I am not trying to be negative towards you at all, since I do want to see this project completed and see what it'll do. But, I can understand why there would be a lot of negative thoughts about a swap like this. Most people just don't really like or want to see a 4 cylinder engine in a "muscle car."

As far as using fuel mileage as an argument...I find that point null since now a day, an LSx swap will get between 25-30 mpg on the highway while having much more grunt and fun factor. On the ford end, the 3 valve 4.6 engines make great, and pretty affordable swaps as well while still getting similiar mileage. A 4 cylinder will only get so much gas mileage before it's struggling to pull weight around. A ford focus with just a driver I'm sure will get considerably more mpg than one with full passengers in stop and go driving, while a V8 car will not fluctuate as much based on the passenger amount.

Anyways, just my .02 cents.

Fallen2603

It won't fill up everyone's cup of tea, or bourbon for that matter, but it should fit the bill for what I want to do. To each their own...

Interest in my swap is fine by me. Or, I can handle scoffing and rejection, too. Either way...

Welcome to the thread, man!

Oh, I don't disagree with any of what you said, man. I know there are plenty of people out there who have a specific vision/ideal of what certain cars should be and do. I can respect that. They have that right just as much as I do.

I just personally don't care what something was originally intended to be or do. I only care if it will do what I want it to do effectively. I could probably try and spout some bullshit about how I'm able to see past the original purpose of something into what it could be, but I'm not that conceited. Or, maybe I am. LOL! But, I'm pretty sure you already figured that out.

I don't disagree with this either. That's why I spent so much time researching weights of different cars with different drivetrain set-ups. If this were going to be the daily family-hauler, I wouldn't be swapping an Ecotec into it.

This isn't "The Ultimate Set-Up that Meets Every Driver's Need and is Still Fun". I've never claimed that, and never will.

It's just one way of doing things...

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Fallen, I appreciate you not shooting me down. As I said, I just wanted to state why I believed there were a lot of negative comments towards this swap. I still wish you the best of luck with it though and can't wait to see how it turns out. Looks like it'll be a pretty serious build with the pics of the rods you posted!

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

This swap just screams I want to be special and not go lsx.

I will hold my judgements until its done and you get your results of all this work for swapping a 4 cyl. Looks like I will hold my judgements for a good time.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

lol all you have is an lt1

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Yep just a puny LT1.

Like I said, This build is gonna get alot of nay sayers, even more when the main reason to do all this is just to be special. Hopefully it doesn't turn up to be one of those things that never happened.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Hey now. Don't go picking on LT1s alot can be done to them just like the gen1 sbc and lsx setups.


OP,

can't wait to see this done. Will be a nice combo. (besides the sound of the exhaust)
being I have what I think is a nice fast 3rdGen and a Nice fast '90 tsi talon. I can respect both the v8 realm and 4banger realm of things. Both of my cars are modded an boosted.
Id actually like to see a built 4g63t in a 3rdGen. Theres a mustang out there on youtube with it done. I think I posted the link for ya before.

anyways keep up the awesome work. Look forward to seeing it done.

Fallen2603

whitedevilTA,

No problem, man. I'm not going to shoot someone down if they bring up a VALID argument, view, or idea. I just get tired of the, "It's STUPID 'cause it ain't a V8." I don't consider that a VALID argument. It's just bashing, and nothing more.

LOL! Well, the rods could handle ~800HP, but I doubt I'll be anywhere near that level.

Carlos773,

Was this swap originally thought up just to be different than an LSx swap? It's certainly possible. Most of the idea for the swap, that I remember, was simply to make the car what I wanted it to be. I prefer light-weight cars with superb handling and weight-distribution. However, I also like them to be "quick" if not "fast". On the other hand, I don't feel the need to be constantly squeeling my tires at every stop-light. Will I take this car to the strip? Sure, once or twice just to see what times it'll pull off, but no more than that. I can acknowledge this will not be a drag-machine.

And...being different than an LSx swap is definitely a side-perk.

LOL! I've already had plenty of the nay-sayers coming to call.

Pillsbry10,

Hey, you bashing on a LT1, you V6-er you?!?!

FSTFBDY,

Yeah, the sound of the exhaust could be...INTERESTING. LOL! I have heard some pretty "throaty" 4-bangers. I just don't want it to be "RASPY". We'll see...

You should do the 4G63 into a 3rd-Gen. I formally challenge you. The gauntlet has been tossed.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

to much going on with my current 3rdgen to start another project..lol.
Doing some changes to mine.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

just funny to see someone say this and be guilty of the same thing.

having an lt is about the same as having a 305 these days

Steel Armadillo

If it weren't for how cool this swap is, I would SOSOSOSOSO unsubcribe from this thread. I cant stand the off topic pissing match notifications.

Either way, any progress is progress. Looking good. Cant wait for more!

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Lol this guy. I went LT due to budget restrictions when I started. Lets see a 305 with basically just a Cam and Converter go 12s. I might just scrap everything and sell this LT1 and LQ4 in my garage and go with the big boys and do a 3.4 Turbo.

Like I said, I want to see this swap finished. Who knows 4 cyl swaps might become the new thing.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I wouldn't go that far. The LT1 is worlds better than a 305 as a starting point.

Fallen2603

FSTFBDY,

Whoa! You're already making changes! Why not just add another LITTLE change by swapping in a 4G63?!?! Can't be too hard, right?!

Pillsbry10,

According to most people around here, if it ain't an LSx swap, it's WRONG.

Steel Armadillo,

I'm pretty sure over 90% of this thread is off-topic pissing matches!

Thanks for hanging in there, though!

Carlos773,

I doubt this will be the next "big thing" for 3rd-Gen's. Okay, I HIGHLY DOUBT it, but...weirder things have happened.

whitedevilTA,

Every engine has it's niche...

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

my change is a th400 looking for a gear vendors over drive.
and just intake tube with a meth injection setup

Fallen2603

FSTFBDY,

I bet a 4G63 swap would be cheaper...

lunati397

weight distribution will make this car run the lack of low end torque will also benefit him too his camaro will get close to a 50/50 front to rear and will make it handle even better

Its good to think out of the box look at ford they sold more econoboost f150s that chevy sold silverados so who is saying putting a smaller turbo in place of a big v8 is a bad idea or to be different

I had a LT1 then it turned into a LT4 with about 10k and I only put down 500 hp through a six speed then I have built numorous LS motors I have a 500 hp plus one in my garage right now that im putting in a 99 firebird I love the 6.0s they are great for power but you see it every day (like driving a ford its a me too thing)"what engine do you have LQ4 Ohh me too"

I like the idea its different and in todays automotive world it takes ***** and creativeness to be different

I had a LQ4 and a duramax sitting in my garage and you can see what I decided to go with


Fallen let me know if you need any help with fabrication ect I am far away but have the tools and know how maybe work a deal with you on a k Member I should be getting started on mine here in the next few weeks after I finish this 99 firebird

Fallen2603

lunati397,


LOL! I wish I could get you up in my neck of the woods for just one day with your equipment, man! I think the stock K-member will work for my project with some notching, but I'll probably end up going with the tubular K-member from Spohn for just a little more clearance and weight-savings.


I'm sure if you were here for only a day with your equipment, after I have the transmission, you'd have my mounting problem completely taken care of.

I doubt you'll ever be up this way, but, if the chance does come up, I'll make it worth your while.


Good luck on your project! I hope to see some progress, soon!

lunati397

take measurements and make templates shipping will do the rest cover materials and maybe we can work something out

Fallen2603

lunati397,

I could do that. Would making some cardboard mock-up's work for you? I could do that, probably...

lunati397

yeah because i have a K member and a jig already built so just the motor mounts or I can do a universal style this wont be any time in the next few weeks maybe mid apr

Fallen2603

lunati397,

Cooool. I'll be sure to work on that when I get the transmission. And, actually, the transmission should be in my grimy little hands by about mid-April, so the timing should be about right for both of us.

Thanks man!

lunati397

I am building my buisness and hey why build one when you can do two for twice the price lol

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

not really. aluminum
grp rods $500
weisco pistons $500
stroker crank $800ish
fully worked stage 3 head wiith 282 cams $2300
NIce billet wheel turbo $1800
etc.....

Id have just as much tied up into a bullet proof 4g63 as I do my bullet proof 383

Fallen2603

lunati397,

Nice...

FSTFBDY,

I'm just pulling your leg, man.

pault850

I'm dying to see how this turns out. I've been struggling with having to sell my camaro due to gas prices going up yet again, this could be the better of ways to go.

occupant

Of course. But when you're not taking out a V8, but a single barrel straight six which put out about 115 GROSS hp in 1968 (the 1978 Fairmont claimed only 95 NET hp from the same sized 200cid "Falcon" six), then it's no longer a matter of taking away power, but adding to it.

In this case, let's say the project involved pulling a 350 4-barrel from a Camaro and replacing it with the Ecotec, then yes, it would be a reduction in power if the Ecotec were N/A and left stock. The torque difference would be massive. But if you're pulling a carbureted 2.8? Then the Ecotec is absolutely an improvement, regardless of its exhaust note.

Speaking of exhaust notes. Have you ever heard a Falcon six with a divorced Hooker header? It's heavenly...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co4J5gWwitM

That ranks up there with Flowmasters on an SBC, Magnaflows on a 4.6L Mustang, or glasspacks on a Cleveland. Now imagine it on a car that looks like this:



I've had my rebuttal...now back to your daily scheduled 3rd gen goodness...now I wonder what a split header would sound like on a four...

Fallen2603

pault850,

How bad is the mileage with your V6 Camaro? I've always heard they were pretty good on gas...

If you were looking for a quick swap, find the 2.4L LE5 Ecotec in a junkyard (with PCM and harness), a 200-4R 4-speed automatic out of a junkyard, and the Quads4Rods Ecotec to GM2004R adapter plate.

That'd probably run you about $1,500, and you'd still have to fabricate mounts, a transmission crossmember, and hack up the stock harness to work as a "stand-alone".

Not sure how cost-effective that'd be for you...

occupant,

LOL! Everyone is going to have their own opinions, man.

Ummm...I hope my EcoteCamaro sounds something like that Falcon six. I've alwasy loved the sound of a straight-six done right.

LOL! If I weren't going turbocharged, a split-header on an Ecotec would be interesting. Maybe supercharged...

Fallen2603

This is the kind of exhaust system I'm planning on running at the moment:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-16829/

This way, all I have to do is have a downpipe from the turbo to this exhaust system fabbed up.

The turbo should quiet down the exhaust note a bit, so should the muffler.

As long as it doesn't sound like a raspy Honda VTEC engine, I'll bey happy.

Hoping it'll sound like a few other four-bangers I've heard with a throaty purr.

Awesome-X

The money youd spend on the swap would probably never be able to be made back in gas savings, but i think this is a great project and I can't wait to see this car running and driving. It never hurts to think outside the box while everyone else drops V8s in their cars and gas is over $4 a gallon lol

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

My exhaust sound before the turbo and after the turbo was a HUGE sound difference

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I've been looking at that one, too. Stainless steel is great for long term use.

Have you heard a similar muffler run on a similar engine? Just curious!

Fallen2603

Awesome-X,

Yeah, I doubt he'd really save money doing this swap. Even then, I'm not sure how well the car would move without some kind of power-adder.

Pillsbry10,

That's what I've always heard, that the turbo is even more effective at stifling the sound of the exhaust than a muffler.

KrisW,

I plan on ceramic-coating whatever exhaust-system end up using. No, I haven't heard of anyone installing a similar muffler on an Ecotec-powered vehicle. I don't expect it to sound like a V8, strapped to a 4-banger, even if it is a muffler intended for a V8-powered car. It will be interesting to see what it sounds like, if I get it...

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

mine was still pretty loud with just the turbo, i def didnt care for it like that.

once i put the muffler on it it made it nice and quiet pretty much all you hear is the turbo now and a faint hint of exhaust note.

Fallen2603

Pillsbry10,

Oh, I don't plan on running an exhaust-system without at least a muffler and catalytic converter.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

thank god lol

maybe im just getting old but i love the beautiful sound of silence

Fallen2603

Pillsbry10,

LOL! I guess that means I'm getting old, too. I just don't feel the need to advertise to the neighborhood that I'm coming home...from five miles away.

pault850

it's not that bad actually it just sucks because It's 100% city 19mpg.

I honestly don't know a thing when it comes to fabrication, and getting the harness to be stand alone. I'd have to have a walkthrough and such. if shown how to do it, i have no problem.

Fallen2603

pault850,

You probably wouldn't end up with much better mileage with an Ecotec under the hood unless you had a power-adder, a turbocharger or supercharger, on the engine as well.

To get the harness to be "stand-alone", you'd basically start with the engine's stock harness, cut out the wires you don't need (using a wiring diagram for the correct vehicle from which you got the engine), and then having the computer re-tuned so it no longer needs those inputs from the wires you cut out.

There are many different Ecotec motors in many different vehicles, so the wiring harnesses are all a little different...

Drifter92

Awesome lol

FRMULA88

I did not read all the posts so I don't know if this was brought up, if so I apologize.

Early 3rd gens were available with the Iron Duke I4 so a 4 cylinder engine can and did propel some of these cars..

You may need to fabricate motor mounts, I am sure the new Eco-Tech and old Iron Duke share nothing in common except for Transmission mount pattern. But I could be wrong.

FWIW this is an interesting idea because it frees up alot of space in a stock engine bay. Space to mount a turbo or pro-charger..

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

On exhaust, theres only one inline 4 I've ever heard that sounded good, and it was a 4g63 in a rally car. The thing had pretty lumpy cams in it from what I could hear, and IMO, it sounded just as good as a v8 with a big cam. Of course there wasnt much for exhaust since it was a rally car, so making it sound like that isnt really the direction you want to go anyway. If you can't make it sound good, make it quiet...

4 cyl boxer subie's sound good though. Best 4 banger exhaust note out there!

Fallen2603

Drifter92,

LOL! Okay, I'll just assume that your "Awesome" is support until you say otherwise.

FRMULA88,

Yes, it has been brought up before that the Iron-Duke 4-cylinder used to come in the 3rd-Gen F-body. I guess most people just choose to forget that. LOL!

Yup, there is absolutely nothing in common between the Iron-Duke and the Ecotec except that they are both inline 4-cylinder engines. And, they don't have the same bellhousing pattern, unfortunately.

Oh, yes, there will be a turbocharger, at the very least. And, there'd be plenty of room for a supercharger, too...

88gunmetalgta,

That's the plan. If that exhaust-system doesn't give the engine a throaty purr that I want, then I'll just add a resonator or another muffler until it's just more quiet.

If the exhaust note of this car sounded like a Subura boxer, I'd be just fine with that!