anesthes

iTrader: (12)

His delivery is flawed but you know what, I too clicked on the thread thinking that it was cool that a member in 2010 did the swap. After reading through the entire thing, I agree with him. No welder, no fabrication skills, a pipe dream and a waste of server space.

Too many threads like this.

Another thing to keep in mind. This is a technical forum. We're not into attacking people, but we've always supported attacking and debating the ideas. Of all the posts in this thread, his are the only ones that have somewhat technical merit. Scary!

The thread should be closed, and re-opened one day if the OP actually builds something.

-- Joe

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

After enough of people within the thread not listening to logic, and facts, which are to keep other onlookers on a public forum provided with the truth, and not with hopefuls with no experience hopes and dreams, you may be happy with being silent.

You want to claim poor behavior on my part, I want to claim poor information, lack of knowledge, and misleading other people on half the people in this thread, simply acknowledging the facts and points i've made would have sufficed, instead the OP has twisted things i've said around into complete fallacy:

saying I couldnt build a 250rwhp turbo 4 that drove well, when in fact my opinion that is often the same by other people in reality, was that it lacked bottom end, this couldnt have possibly been due to my building it, as the engine, camshafts, turbo selection, and tuning were all that of NISSAN


Making claims that he doesnt understand or have the numbers to backup:

claiming that it will drive just great then quoting PEAK numbers, when in fact the area for daily drivability will be far below that in boost peak

claiming that its going to be SO much lighter than an LS1 swap and handle SO much better, when in reality he doesnt have a clue what an LS1 truely weighs in a swap like this, and somehow believes they weigh 600lbs or something of that nature, also failing to realize that most of the weight of the turbo 4 drivetrain will be up top and have a high CG, as well as putting an intercooler all the way in the nose of the car, for anything thats going to work well will throw the weight f/r balance back towards helping the LSx swap


As well as showing his true lack of knowledge and just regurgitating what he's heard, by plenty of things within this thread, so far my favorite being the "SR20DETT" apparently they got an extra turbo somewhere along the way that nobody has found yet.

Again, you may be happy with people spreading misinformation, confusing people, and misleading people, but when next week we've got a bunch of people looking for help because they were mislead, it sure is better to put the fire out before it starts.

kcducttaper

Ok gents, lets get back on topic. If you don't like a non-fabricating thread, move on and let it die. No need to use more server space fighting.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Back on topic:

For those interested in doing the swap and not looking to spend the money on a TKO, apparently theres a factory bellhousing to use with the ecotec that will allow the toyota R154 from the turbo supras to bolt right up, making for a cheap strong transmission solution.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I used to have one of these in the shop. (a turbo supra). They shift nice.

-- Joe

diablizzard

iTrader: (8)

http://prestoliteperformance.com/bel...ec-to-ls1.html

Fallen2603

anesthes,

You are a moderator on this site, and I recognize your authority as such. I am not going to tell you how to do your job. If you feel that my thread deserves to be locked or deleted, and you have the power to do so, I can't really fight you on it. That is up to you.

I knew that this swap would be controversial from the beginning. That's why, at first, I asked only for information. That turned out to be very naive of me. However, I have continued to make progress with this swap. I understand your skepticism about whether or not this swap will actually be completed. I, too, have seen many threads start and nothing come of them. You have been here 11 years longer than me, so this be much more common to you. Has this swap taken longer than I hoped? Absolutely. Is this a "pipe-dream"? I'm sure many think so. Does this mean this thread is going nowhere? Some might think so, but I have no intention of that happening.

I also am a fan of debate and testing new ideas. I feel that's what this swap does: Tests an untried idea. However, I do not like people coming into this forum and talking smack, simply because they don't feel this thread should be gaining as much interest as it does. I can't control other peoples' interest in my thread.

In my defense to not have this thread deleted is a simple question: Who else has come this far on a swap like this into this particular body? I know of now one. So far, I am the guy who has done the most work and research on this.

Again, if you feel this thread deserves to be locked or deleted, and you have the power to do so, that is your right, obligation, and responsibility. Do what you feel is best for the forum.

Z28ricer,

I owe you an apology. My recent attack on you was not right. I made the faulty assumption that, from your earlier posts, your build did not meet basic expectations of what a turbocharged 4-cylinder car should be. Those were your expectations, not mine. If the car did not do what you wanted it to do, then I should not attack you for it. That is your car.

This is my car. You might not like what I'm doing to it, and I'm sure there are others who agree with your point of view. However, this is still my car, and this is what I want to do with it: Swap an Ecotec I4 into a 3rd-Gen F-body.

I acknowledge that you have a lot more experience with cars and swaps than I do. If I ever said otherwise, again, I apologize.

However, I do not feel it is right to attack me with ad hominem. Whether it be the faulty assumption that I was a Pokemon fan in high school, or that my knowledge is somehow exempt because I put one too many T's in SR20DET.

As I've said before, we have different ideas of what our cars should be. Yours is the V8 way. Mine is different. Based off my experiences, I feel this car will do what I want it to do. I'm sure this car would not meet your expectations, no matter how good it comes out, and that does not bother me. As long as this car does what I want it to do, I don't care what others think about it.

You claim I don't know what an LS1 weighs. Your right. I don't. I've seen numbers ranging from 400-600lbs on various forums and other sources. How do I know which is right? What stages of build were these engines at? How off was the scale? I can't answer these questions to a certainty. As I have told you before, I welcome your evidence of the weight of an LS1, but I am also skeptical and prefer some hard evidence.

Also, you are probably partially right in some respect. The LS1 is probably not the 600lbs I may have stated earlier. Going from an average, I'd guess around 500lbs, but, again, I have found no hard evidence. I can't even provide truly hard evidence of how much the Ecotec I4 weighs. I have seen ranges from 280-350lbs for an Ecotec I4, but, again, with no other information on level of build. Also, I do know that the turbocharger, intercooler, and piping will add weight to the entire package and possibly shift the CG, mildly. I would love to have both my finished motor and a turn-key LS1, at the same level of build, weighed at the same place, and on the same scale. Perhaps Performance Autowerks can help provide that opportunity when they're building my short-block...

Will the car handle so much better than an LS-swapped 3rd-Gen? Again, I don't know for certain. Who does? Anyone can make predictions, but no one will know for sure until the swap is done and analyzed. That's what I am endeavoring to do.

Like I've asked you before: Can we just agree to disagree, and respect each others' opinions? I will endeavor to be more respectful of you and your opinions if you will offer the same.

Yes, I'm sure the turbocharger will shift the CG of the engine upwards, but, considering my manifold will put the turbocharger below the exhaust ports, probably not too much.

Also, you are correct, the stock Solstice/Sky bellhousing should bolt up to an R154 transmission, from what I understand.

To anyone interested in my continuing progress with this swap, in the event of a moderator locking/deleting this thread:

I am also posting this swap at this online address:

http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?14188-Swap-an-Ecotec-I4-into-a-90-Camaro

You should be able to view all pictures without becoming a member.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Actually it's up to 5.7, he mods this section not me.

Controversial? Eh, maybe maybe not. I'm all for putting stuff we're it don't belong.

My gripe was that I spent two minutes reading through 2 years of posts and the project has been a "pipe dream". I really wish you got it done.

I don't think the thread should be deleted. I think it should be locked. I think it's "over" for now. Do the swap, come back, and report back your progress. But the thread isn't about a swap anymore, it's about v8 vs 4 cyl, turbos, torque, launching and all sorts of madness.


We have a lot of threads here from the past decade that were great ideas, but never executed. The problem is, when people search the archives or follow a google hit to our site hoping to find someone who 'did it' they find out it never happened. It sucks, it really does. I hate dead ends and I doubt I'm alone.

Good luck.

-- Joe

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Even if these threads turn out to be dead ends, there is still some valuable information to be gleaned from them. This one may be a pipe dream (I'd bet it isn't... OP seems pretty persistent) but even if it is never completed, someone could get a lot of information from this thread, even if all it ever amounts to is "why you shouldn't try to put an ecotec in a third gen".

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

"Wasted" 2 minutes and that warrants a lock?

Wow, I guess I should be locking almost all of the threads in the V6 section, since just about all of them "waste" my time.

I want to see this completed one day, and there's no reason whatsover to lock it, some people make progress at a much slower rate than others, it's life.

It seems that today's instant gratification society is really starting to make people believe that swaps like this take merely days, instead of the months to years that they actually do.

I'd hate to see how people feel about new build threads I will start for a couple of my projects that will take years to complete.

No author of any thread owes anybody anything, be it results, or information about how they did something, that is completely voluntary of the author to share that information.

Fallen, I keep checking this thread when I see new posts, I just don't always post, keep up the work, nor matter how long the swap takes.

Guest

My father was in the military. 75th Ranger Regiment, 3rd Battalion. I am not in the military, but I am 16. I have been around more military guys than regular people. I have never heard the men who are true soldiers speak more than a few words of their service in order to humble other people. You are probably a vet, but damn. I can say I have ****ed up kneecaps due to my UFC career. If you were in person I would say though your service in his face if he pisses you off. It just not very effective over the Internet or text.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Err I meant twenty. Red wine. It's what's for dinner.

The V6 forum isn't exactly the finest example of thirdgen high tech. I expect "Engine Swap" to be a little more.. advanced. But I also said, it was up to the mod of this forum who isn't me. But I will voice my opinion because well, I've been here since day 1.

Months maybe.. Years? There is a big difference between "i'd like to do this" and "This is how I'm doing this".. This thread is the first, not the later. The title suggests otherwise.

Years? I don't think I've ever kept a project for more than a year or so after I completed it. The longest I've spent on a build was probably about 11 months on a frame off Corvette resto. Twin_turbo has a camaro build thread that is over a year old, but his stuff is always absolutely amazing examples of a build.


Yeah, but I'm also entitled to my opinion, which is fine that you don't agree with it.

I think the thread failed. The only tech that was added was by a guy everyone was dumping on because they don't agree with him.

I know you typically don't agree with what I say, and that is fine too. My goal isn't to have popular ideas and methods, but have the right ones.

-- Joe

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Still, only 20 minutes? I've wasted far more on much less information.


You'd be surprised at what some of the V6ers are doing, so while you may not not the V6 section, anbd think very little of it, there is a lot going on and the potential is there, just very few have actually reached for that potential.

At least this isn't just another LTx or LSx swap, being covered for the thousandth time, something different and refreshing.

Must be nice to have both the funds and the time to complete large projects in a short period of time, many of us, lack time, tools and or funds to pull off such feats, I know personally, now that I've gone back to school, I lack both time and funds, but will do what I can, when I can, to complete my projects.

I'm taking into account time researching different aspects of a swap, especially one that has never been done before, that alone can take years in some cases, depending on how freely the information is found. Sometimes there is just trial and error, that you find that maybe once you get so far, that something puts up a road block and forces a restart from scuare one, or almost square one, these failed or difficult to complete tasks are called "lessons" and for some, we find out the hard way, how to get this stuff done with what we have available to us.

Several projects I have, or am directly involved in have taken years to complete, for many reasons, if you'd like to change that, by all means, start throwing some cash my way, and time wrenching, cutting and welding to get them done, I'm sure Fallen would also appreciate the same.

"Right" is just another opinion, your way, is not everyone's way, and while it may be "right" for you, it may be way wrong for someone else.

There seems to be a lack of understanding that people at the other end of the internet are not the exact reflection of ourselves, we all do things differently, move at different paces, and have different obligations in the world, which changes one's worldly outlook.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

My point was that this section is unique as it's modifications only, not just generalized.

And to be perfectly honest with you, the high end v6 guys with the turbos all got their threads locked by you (for whatever reason) and are now posting
on my two forums, so I am in fact aware of what the v6 is capable of and what the v6ers are doing. You just missed my point.

But. he hasn't covered anything. He hasn't DONE anything.

I actually spend more money on my horses than on the cars. The thirdgen I have right now that I picked up in April, I've only got like $13,000 into. You can't even buy a new economy car for that these days.

Tow your stuff here, that's what all my friends do.


But we're a technical forum, remember? We're supposed to talk tech, debate tech, and find the best ways. My point is the thread is two years old, nothing has been done, the project is a bust.

Anyway. I'm not interested in arguing about this. I've said my part, and I respect your opinion while it may be different than mine. C-ya

-- Joe

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Holy Christ we even got the mods arguing...

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Fallen

Don't let them get on your nerves. Keep up with the idea and finish it. Heck I'm chopping up a 1990 vette to transplant all it's suspension and drivetrain into my 82 corvette so I here flack from the c4 crowd for chopping up a c4 and get it from the c3 guys for molesting a c3 by turning it into a convertible and now this conversion.

Your car man, do as you please with it. Something new and different is also a good read. Dare to be different I say!

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You do realize that all of the stuff he's gotten upset over, said by myself, and others, none of it contains anything that says dont do it, or that he's stupid for doing so, just that most of what he's stated and thinks will happen, isnt the truth, and the details on why its so, right ?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i'm waiting for this swap to be complete, the duramax swap to be complete, and the 305 tpi car to go 9's. lol
seriously, i would like to see one of them done. i like to see different stuff.
the 2k hp build in the fabrication section is an inspiration. that guy flat out knocked it completely out of the park.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

I think a ecotec probably won't be so bad. The iron duke has to be worse and the greater mojority of even v-8 3rd gens didn't get over 200hp. Besides whats power these days when gas will hit 5 bucks a gallon. Rather have a nice 3rd that got great gas mileage.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

How are you figuring its going to get great mileage compared to a properly swapped LS ?


Answer: its not going to, unfortunately at some point you get to the point in the road where it takes X amount of HP to move X weight at X speed, and the efficiency for doing so has been equaled by current efi V8 engines.

This is a moot point for a "benefit" of using a 4 cyl.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

LSx's are overdone now. Gearing can make up for getting going verses torque.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

No, it cannot, you may want to hope so, but it doesnt work that way.

The saying is still true, there is NO replacement for displacement.

Sure turbo guys will claim there is, but that only works for peak power, again as i've said before, variable valve timing, twin scroll, variable nozzle turbines, all band-aids to attempt to mimic a V8 torque curve.

Dislike it all you want, facts are facts.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

HAHAHAHAHA the truth!

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Tell that too the Grand National guys!

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You mean the guys with 2x the displacement as the 4 cylinder you are implying will drive fine on the bottom end ?

I'M THE BATMAN

I had a 2008 HHR SS 5 speed that i got new and put 98900 miles on , It was at 300 HP
I just replaced it with a 2010 last year HHR SS auto , With the GMTU it sits at 290 HP

The 5 speed was way quicker 50-100 mph
The auto kills the 5 speed 0- 60-mph

The camaro seems like a 64 caddy compared to the 2 SS's
Big and heavy
There are guys on chevyhhr.net that will soon be getting 450 HP from that 2.0 engine.
And you can look for my 1st SS (Known as the BATRIDE on that site)

450 HP 4 banger , I think that would push the camaro past most V-8 camaros.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

You said no replacement for displacement, 3.8 245hp todays 3.8 N/A engine 200hp. So what advantage does a 305 have over that.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

So what do you do when you roll up beside a car that weighs less than your silly FWD HHR, with the same engine as the "v-8 camaros" ?

Again, yes we ALL know that you can make the same peak HP, the point is that it will NOT drive the same, yes your auto will drive just fine, welcome to static torque ratio, you've now learned something today


(your hhr is still going to get murdered by the camaros with similar power because you'll be playing spin city)

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You are STILL looking at PEAK numbers, which part of area under the curve do you not understand ? Which part of theres a reason you dont see any modified 4 cylinder dyno graphs starting at 1500 do you not understand ?

Normal day to day driving with an LS will be effortless compared to the silly idea of using a 2.0L ecotec instead.

I'M THE BATMAN

I agree , I played try not to spin the tires for 2 hours in and again out of the city today , In misty too wet conditions , Whatching cars that i could smolder in a 0-60 walk from me because they were rear or all wheel drive .

And no i did'nt learn s-it from your post,

Don't kid yourself about a ecotec 2.0 with just a GMTU , I smoked all 3rd gens that wanted to play with my first SS ,

That was 3 or 4 that performed the , F-in wagon just got my AZZ chin drop .

And there are not as many cars , That you think that are lighter than an HHR SS with simular HP
And believe it or not , I'm sure you won't , You can get some good runs with a FWD , But you DO have to be more than a novice driver ,
Novice driver = ( 99.4 of all drivers )

I will say this , With it's punny little 305 , I will sell my 290 HP GM warranteed - 5 year 100000 mile powertrain
2.0 SS HHR with a advertised top speed of over 150 MPH
( Only did 140 indicated on the 2008 )
And only 130 MPH so far on the 2010 )

Before i sell the Camaro !

Cheers . Son .

I'M THE BATMAN

Check nurinburg ring times for HHR SS , Ya i know nurringburg ring is mispelled Thauks . LOL

Fallen2603

Ugh...well, I guess the whole thread is really starting to get killed.

I've had the turbocharged 4-cylinder haters do their thing.

Now, I'm having V8 haters come on and do their thing.

Even I'm starting to feel this thread should be locked. I'd like to start another thread in the future, but I'd like to keep this one going to.

I don't want this one to become bickering back and forth, but any thread can devolve into that, I suppose. I haven't handled parts of this thread as well as I should have, I admit that. But, I've tried to keep this as clean as I could. Hell, somehow this thread has even gotten a couple moderators arguing.

This swap is still happening. I'm still going forward with it. It's slow right now, true. I'm hoping I'll have the opportunity to get it moving in the near future.

IF a moderator doesn't lock this thread in the near future for the flame-war this is becoming, I will post when I have some actual progress. Like I said, the EcotecForum thread will continue, if this one does get locked.

All I want to do is try a new idea and have it judged on it's actual results and accomplishments. That's all I've wanted to do.

The swap continues. Until I have more to report...PEACE.

I'M THE BATMAN

You asked a question , And i totally blew it off , I'm sorry ,

what do i do when i roll up beside a car that weighs less than my silly FWD HHR SS , With the same engine as the V-8 camaros ,
Usally , Most offten i fall behind untill 2nd gear at redline , A shift to 3rd , 2nd and 3rd boosting from 25 - 28 P.S.I. and i do a top gun fly bye.

Just sayin son , Research your stuff , Before the kill !

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Well at least here you're still within reality.


Well, thats a shame, I guess its possible you didnt have the required equipment to do so.


Good you found some old 80's cars with choked out 80s emissions requirements engines, and didnt run across any of the LT1 and LS1 swapped cars, good job.

Tell that to all of the nissan 240sx's, mazda rx7s, honda S2000's, miatas, etc with sbc, or sbf swaps.


What in the world does the advertised top speed of either car have to do with anything ?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Oh, ok, just PM me when you'll be in FL



Cause on that one, negative ghostrider the pattern is full, and I wont be spilling any coffee.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

Lets discuss day to day driving then shall we. Lets see if you find a ace in the hole for a LSx over a ecotec okay. You don't know what his day to day stuff is. Mine is commuting to work, driving my son to school, grocery shopping, etc. etc.

So tell me why a 4 banger camaro can't handle that, maybe he just wants a super nice camaro that has v-8 power and yet 4 cylinder fuel economy. I could have bought a LT1 camaro but choose a v-6 camaro. Why how much power do you need driving around town and to work? My 6 banger handles the job just fine as a LT1 would have but with better economy.

He is building it around his driving habits and maybe he feels this is the best choice for those habits with todays gas prices.

I'M THE BATMAN

I'm not getting the slang ghoustrider stuff .

Dif generation , For sure , The whole key to this now lame thread lies in your last comment i was never talking about swapped engines . Come on , Pick an argument already , It changes at your will . next you'll have me trying to defend a z06 to my 2.0 's

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I didnt say it couldnt "handle it" I've NEVER said that in this thread, again now you are twisting what i've said instead of the OP

Again you may think your "6 banger" gets better economy, i've owned both, the reality is that it doesnt, it only makes less power.

There is a big difference between "handle the job" and drive effortlessly, and enjoyably, there is a reason even V8 owners worry if a certain cam is going to decrease drivability, and bottom end torque, making for a less enjoyable car to drive, starting with a turbo 4 only starts you at that decreased bottom end, decreased drivability point and if you add enough boost gets you to the same ET at the end.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You are the one bragging about picking off thirdgens, whats the matter dont like when people even out the playing field on the weight issue ?

So a modified stock engine is ok, but a swapped stock engine isnt, give me a break.

I'M THE BATMAN

If you go back to the start of this thread ,
An eco tec in a gen 3 ,
i post my expierience with 2.0 ecotecs , And you attack me . F U .


I'll stay out of your post.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You posted nothing relevant, just that your mini stationwagon buddys "will soon be getting 450HP from that 2.0"

That has NOTHING to do with them in a thirdgen, nothing to do with the discussed benefits/cons to the swap.

We've already known this, sorry but far far above that has been done with 2.0 turbo 4's, years ago, none of it is anything new.

The point that went over your head and must have missed when you decided to tell me to "pick an arguement" is that the engine will not get notably better fuel mileage than a similar power LTx or LSx swapped thirdgen, the difference however will be that the 4cyl car after all of the fabrication, adaptation, tweaking will still never drive as well due to lack of low rpm around town rpm range torque.

Nowhere in this thread will you find me saying the top end power cant be made, which you seem to be so insistent upon, only that the drivability will suffer, comparatively, which seems to result in a bunch of people with little experience, little ability, and little knowledge to jump and shout at the messenger, instead of learning a few things.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I had to actually look up what an HHR is because honestly, I had no idea. It's like a strange minivan looking family thing.

Anyway. The curb weight is almost identical to a thirdgen, so +/- a couple hundred lbs max after the 'swap' I'd imagine it would get fairly similar fuel economy as a thirdgen with the swapped engine.

It gets 21 mpg city, 29 mpg highway.

I compared it to historical stats (user reports to the feds) of a 2002 camaro LS1/T56 combo.

It gets 18 mpg city, 29 mpg highway.

Now when you consider the fact that the 2002 camaro is about 500lbs heavier than a thirdgen (yet the LSx engine is lighter) transplanting it into a a thirdgen should in theory yield fuel economy at the same or slightly better than the 2002 camaro.


So by the actual numbers, Tommy is right. The LSx transplant into a thirdgen should yield better highway fuel economy than the Ecotec.

Now as far as performance between the two, who knows. Both stock would bore me to tears

If one of you guys was local, and had a thirdgen shell + ecotec with a trans adapter and trans, I'd be willing to help set the pinion angle on the trans and weld up some engine mount adapters. That is probably how I'd do the swap, I'd get the trans angle set up properly (I have a jig that sits over the engine bay to hold the engine) weld up the trans mount, then where the trans/engine combo sat I'd make up some engine mounts.

It would probably be like 5-8 hours to get it dialed in assuming the total length worked out and a custom driveshaft didn't have to get made up.

-- Joe

V6canvas

iTrader: (1)

In the interest of keeping the thread unlocked, maybe a mod could delete just the 'argument' posts. I for one understand that some swaps take a long time, but keeping a build thread can be helpful in tracking progress/ informing others and other people encouraging the builder.

I'd like to see how this swap turns out, if nothing else, just to see the result of the 'what if'

kcducttaper

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Most of the "arguement" posts are where the actual tech is contained, because the OP and 4cyl hopefuls only got arguementative with those posting real world info, rather than just acknowledging facts and learning.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

This is what i'm saying, I dont think it would even take that much, as he's got the TKO already, so if he's got whatever driveshaft is needed for the TKO, he said he's got the spohn crossmember for it, bolt up the engine/trans, lower it in, bolt the trans to the crossmember, tack weld mounts, remove everything, finish weld.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i had a 215hp turbo 2.4 pt cruiser. got 23mpg hwy for us. ~3500lb with driver
friend of mine has a '04 gto. was stock other than boltons and ported heads. ~420rwhp. we got 30mpg on a trip to maryland. went over 500 miles on a tank of fuel. gto is 3900lb. with driver. gto ran 11's, pt cruiser ran 14's. lol

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yep. I could reasonably build motor mounts for it in an afternoon assuming their was no serious issues with the oil pan and the k-member, or if the block was so much longer than a SBC that the whole assembly needed to be pulled back.

-- Joe

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

I have to agree that while this swap could and should turn out to be fast, it probably won't be as economical on fuel as an N/A V8 with equal power. I have a few friends with turbo 4s and 6s and they get worse or equal mileage as my lt1-swapped firebird did, with less reliability. They are fast and fun to drive cars though.

I'M THE BATMAN

Had a few too many last nite , I'm sorry for going out of bounds .

What i should have said was ,
The Ecotec 2.0 turbo is a great little engine. I average 22 MPG and get about 37 on the highway with the cruise on . I would think that this engine in a 3rd gen would be close to those figures, Since the HHR is a box , And the Camaro is nicely aerodynamic . Making up for the dif. in weight.

Good luck with the swap .