bottledbird68

Nope. No tube framing here lol. I am more than capable but my over the top custom monster is my 68 bird. My 87 is my fun driver that I play with while my 68 is in pieces or down for repair after I get it back together. That car is enough of a headache. I don't need two radically custom modified chassis cars.

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

I would love to see a 2jzgte-swapped 3rd gen. I'm surprised no one has done it yet.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

You got PM.

Fallen2603

Unfortunately, the only way to know for sure is to try and fit the engine in there. Before I actually got the Ecotec in the engine-bay, I thought some things would be cause a fitment issue and others wouldn't. I was right in some ways and wrong in others.

The sub-frame rails are actually pretty high, go higher, and spread out the closer you get to the front of the car.

What about one of the SOHC Subaru motors? I know those are supposed to be a bit lighter than the DOHC motors, and they might give you just enough room to cram in there.

A rear-mounted Porsche AWD powertrain?! Yeah, that would be SWEEEET.

A lot of people have said they would do a 2JZ swap, but I don't think anything has come of them, yet. I still hope someone will do it...

Fallen2603

I know what to do! Just cut the whole car right down the middle, add a 4 inch piece of metal to the two halves, and weld it all back together! Widen your wheel stance, and have enough room for the Subaru motor! PERFECT! I kid...

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Why not, other people have done it. Whole lotta work but wow what a way to screw with people's mind!

Might as well do that, and fab up a way to mid-mount an engine. Kinda like the mid-engined thirdgen that was built with a 540" BBC and Toronado transaxle. Car even had 180* headers. Heck, add in AWD while you are at it!

Fallen2603

LOL! That would be sweet, too! A MR Subaru four-cylinder with AWD...I don't see how that could go wrong at all.

That MR BBC 3rd-Gen was an absolute mind-bender. An awesome build-up, for sure.

bottledbird68

No. No sohc motors for me. Dohc or bust! If I'm already starting off with a lack of cubes I'm not gonna kill myself on airflow too lol!

Fallen2603

LOL! I hear what you're saying, man. But, if you're boosting it, that would alleviate SOME of the flow concerns...

Tinbender59

on your ECU, if you have a way to get a 4X reluctor on the crank and a 2X on the cam or just put them both on the crank, you could go with the LS411 ECU that is way easer to tune???

Fallen2603

I'll be using a stock '03-'05 Cavalier/Sunfire manual transmission and non-ABS ECU and harness, which I have two of. I just got to cut out all the wiring that I'm not going to use from the harness, and have the ECU tuned using HPTuners at a shop less than an hour away. Tuning is not my bag...yet, and I don't mind paying for a good dyno-tune.

Tinbender59

me t t t neather! and I agree, It took two tuners to find a good one for my custom LT1 swap, first one charged me for 3.5 hrs, and spent 45 min on it.

Fallen2603

Yeah, I'd have a problem with being charged almost five times more than the service I actually received, too. If I saw that ****, I'd tell that damn tuner to spend another two hours and forty-five minutes in my car...TUNING. I don't mind spending good money on a tune, but I better be getting my money's worth.

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

Measured my friends EJ20g STI motor and its about 29.5" wide and the cam covers are about 8-9" tall. It's about 13-14" from timing belt cover to bellhousing face. The 5-speed is similar in size to a t56 and the 6-speed is quite a bit larger - longer and larger in diameter.

Fallen2603

You'd just have to try and fit one in there and see what happens to know if an EJ will fit in there or not. Maybe bottledbird68 will find someone who'll let him borrow an EJ for a weekend before buying it...

bottledbird68

I just need to find out how wide it is between the rails on a third gen. Mine still has a motor in the way

Fallen2603

You need a measurement? I could get you one...

Fallen2603

I measured about 27" at the narrowest point, which is at the firewall on the driver's side. Looking at it, you'd probably have to cut some of the firewall out, in addition to cutting some reliefs into the sub-frame rails to get the EJ in there.

NathanLewis

regardless of all the Ls swaps, I think this one is still the most interesting.

Fallen2603

I don't know how this swap can be so interesting, because it's sooo SLOOOOWWW. LOL!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Its more the fact that you are actually doing it, instead of the easier more well documented Gen2/3 routes.

Fallen2603

Okay, I see your point. I guess I'm just a stubborn *** like that. LOL!

NathanLewis

oh its slow indeed, but the swap itself the interesting part

Fallen2603

I sure wish it weren't going so slowly...

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Whats interesting ?

Make mounts, make exhaust, make wiring, end up with poor driveability.

Theend.

Fallen2603

Z28ricer,

Yup, says the guy who couldn't make a "streetable" 250whp in a Nissan 240SX? Wasn't that about right?

Yeah, sorry, a 300whp 240SX is kind of what gave me the idea for this build, but that was a very "streetable" car. Maybe that guy just built and tuned his a hell of a lot better...

I thought we settled your trolling...?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Who said anything about it wasnt streetable ?

See, again showing how little you actually know.

Again, since you couldnt comprehend last time, and somehow havent driven enough vehicles to have learned anything:

1. My car was very streetable with the SR
2. My car was no slouch with the SR, running a best of 8.33 in the 1/8, with a completely stock engine
3. Its simply called logic, a proper build using that engine would have cost around $8000, an LS swap costing me less, while making the power at 0 psi boost, with less components to fail, maintain, upkeep, is just simply smarter.
4. See the 0 psi thing above, you didnt listen the first time, you can turbo that engine till you're blue in the face, crank the boost allll you can get out of it, but you'll still be left without the 400 ft/lbs from just off idle, to 3500 rpm, when your turbo finally comes alive at 3500.
5. Again little 4 vs v8, you'll have to keep a cruise RPM of somewhere around 3400+ to get any reasonable mileage out of it on the highway, now while you wont come back and man up to admit it, this will be annoying, been there, done that.


The reality of it is that i've just got that much more logic about it than you, and you refuse to listen, and instead cry and throw out supposed claims that couldnt have been further from the truth, you have no experience and are hoping from some great setup thats ***-backwards from the start.

Again, the FACTS:

1. You'll need a bunch of boost, have a torque curve that doesnt get off its *** until 3000+ especially if its going to make any respectable power.
2. You'll need a high cruise RPM to get any sort of fuel mileage, and you wont do any better than LS swapped cars
3. It still wont make any more power or do anything really better than an LS swap.
4. Its amusing that you rode around in a 300whp SR powered 2800lb car and though it would be a cool idea to put the same in your 3500lb car, you also didnt do much driving of the car apparently, or at least we know you havent driven the same car with a much better powerplant.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

This isn't a thread about how "cool" it would be to do a swap, he's actually DOING it. Which is different from all the posts that talk about how cool it would be to do something, but then never actually get beyond the theoretical stage.

You know, I was going to post a long winded thing about how a Turbo 4 isn't a bad option, but then I figured a video is 10x better.

BTW, I've seen this car in PERSON, It hauls ***. The rental this video was taken at was the MFBA Fall Cordova rental.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You must have completely missed the fact that ANYTHING can be made fast with enough money thrown at it, i've been in fast turbo 4 cars, the point is that it will NEVER drive as well.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

4 Words

Its
Not
Your
Car

He wants it, he's doing it, its his money and time.

Here, read this. Superduty Ironduke program. 100hp/L. 270hp out of a 2.7L Iron Duke naturally aspriated: http://home.comcast.net/~thirdgen89g.../Superbird.pdf

Add a turbo to that, and it gets alot more fun.

Let the OP have his fun and enjoy his car, he's going about the project the right way.

72vega

iTrader: (9)

Fallen2603

Z28ricer,

When did I ever say this car would perform like a V8 engine car? "A torque curve that doesnt get off its *** until 3000+"? What if that's what I want? You want to know why? How about this...

I'm a disabled veteran with a ****ed up throttle foot/ankle, messed up neck, and dosed up on painkillers to have some semblance of a normal life. I don't feel safe having tons of torque at idle, especially on painkillers, thank you. How do you think it feels to have "neck-snapping" torque when you have a ****ed up neck?

We can argue all ****ing day how much this car will weigh. I have my estimates, and you have yours. We won't know what it'll weigh until I'm done, and that will have a lot to say about how the car moves.

I've driven more turbo cars than that, but I'm not going to get into a ***** measuring contest with you because it wouldn't change a damn thing. Simple fact is I liked how they drove and worked. If you don't, that's your opinion.

YOU want a V8 in YOUR 240SX? Hey, go right ahead. If it makes YOU happy, I don't give a ****.

This is MY car. I want to do to MY car what I want with it. I think I've earned that after 5 years of military service and a medical discharge, thank you.

You want to keep trolling? I'm ignoring you, then. That's all I've seen you do on this forum. TROLL. Very little comes from your fingertips that is actually useful or relevant.

Sooo...goodbye, and DEUCES. Strike Hold, All the Way, AIRBORNE.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I just asked what was interesting about the swap, you are the one that wanted to attempt to attack me with a line about what power or driveability my car had with the previous engine.


Again, there is no magic in this thread, there isnt even really much more than the talk about it "actually getting done" yet a lot of claiming "actually getting done"


Oh and to reference your disability claim, sorry but the onset of boost is going to be more abrupt than an engine that made the power down lower and was linear.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Wow, just realized and looked, 2 years, 2 months, so far not even a mounting plate, and a builder attempting to swap an engine that doesnt bolt in, who doesnt even have a welder, this thing is probably going to continue going nowhere, fast.

Fallen2603

A) If this swap is so uninteresting to you, why even click on the link?

B) If others find this interesting and want to comment, that's there choice. It wouldn't bother me if no one came in here or commented. Do I appreciate the comments? Hell yeah, I do. But, I don't need their accolades, acceptance, or approval. I'm doing this for me.

C) As for attacking, you have a tone that sounds attacking, I will respond in kind. That's the way of the Infantry.

D) Your generality of how hard the torque hits with a turbocharger is way over generalized and is ignoring many other mitigating details. I'm sure all your experience with turbocharged platforms would have clued you into that, by now.

E) Life happens. I can't make building this car my sole priority in life. I'm sure that this project is not the only one that has taken longer than someone had hoped it would.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Z28ricer...

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Ever heard the phrase ad hominem? Its Latin for "To the Man." Aka, you didn't make a post about his methods either with criticism or praise. Instead your post attacks him directly. Oh, its not a flagrant attack, however its certainly an unwelcome post. Perhaps he ran out of money? Or life intervened.

My car sat on Jack stands for near 5 years because I had other things to do and no money to finish a simple LT1 swap.

But I did finish it, and I enjoyed it for 3 years. Now its awaiting a decent build up and I'm taking the time to buy the good parts, and not skimp out. So I can understand the slow progress.

Its not as if his car is taking up your garage space, his pace has no affect on you at all.

72vega

iTrader: (9)

Project: 85 2.8 bird

swaps can be fun, no matter how long tey can take or how many in the same car. 've skimmed thru most of the pages and was wondering: do you happen to have a soft copy of the gmpp ecotec build book? I have a .pdf copy of the first vol somewhere if want it

Fallen2603

Project: 85 2.8 bird,

Thanks, man. Yes, I do have a hard-copy of that book, but I won't say, "No" to a digital copy. More information is always a win.

bottledbird68

Yeah I have zero desire to get into notching the firewall or frame rails on my third gen to fit an ej motor. I'm ***** deep into custom chassis fab on my 68 firebird. I just want to drop something in and get my 87 back on the road. I have a fourth gen Camaro that I put together. It's a nice car but I never fell in love with it cause, well, it's a Camaro, and, I just don't like how the fourth gen chassis drives/handles.
At this point I'm ready to gut the lt1/t56 out of it and sell the shell. It put down 319 rwhp in the Camaro so it would make a fun driveline in my third gen. And, I already own it so it'll probably be cheaper to do that rather than sell the Camaro to fund an ls/t56 swap that puts the simar power to the wheels.
And screw it, last good vacation we took to the mountains the old hot cammed lt1 averaged 24 mpg over the whole 450 mile trip

Fallen2603

As cool as I think and EJ swap would be, I totally understand where you're coming from, man. Just going off what I've seen in the engine-bay and what I know of the dimensions of the EJ, it would take a lot of work to get it in there.

It'll still be a fun car with that LT1/T56 in there.

Fallen2603

Oh, and I just wanted to say, "Thank you!" to everyone who stood with me or behind me with the last little debacle that occurred yesterday. I really appreciate your support. Thanks, again.

NathanLewis

He's just jealous.


Keep at it bro!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Bottledbird, I have a friend who works at a company that has access to all of the specs for the thirdgen chassis. Framerail width..etc.

He's gonna grab the inside width of the framerails for me. Granted, used car after being on the road for 20yrs or so might be off, but it'll be close.

Fallen2603

NathanLewis,

I don't know what the exact issue is. However, I absolutely do plan on continuing, and completing, this swap.

Thirdgen89GTA,

I hope those measurements come back from your friend, and that they're good enough for bottledbird68 to try this swap.

34blazer

WOW, you still arent banned? someone needs to fix that. everyone here knows you dont have the guts to run your mouth like that in person, no need to trash up this thread either. youre just another loser who hides behind his computer screen and talks smack, loser. go play with your fart cannons.


to the OP, nice build. subbed

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Banned for calling exactly what's true.

You sure cry a lot about the truth.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

If we banned our smart members who actually built stuff than what would we be left with?

He can be a jerk, but he's usually right.

-- Joe

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Intelligence and Experience doesn't excuse poor behavior though. Not saying what he wrote is ban worthy, but honestly he shouldn't have posted it.

When a post like that is made on boards I mod on, I just remove the post and send a PM letting them know I removed it. No points or other negative feedback. Eventually they stop posting crap like that and simply hold their tongue.