85ProjectIroc

just wanted to ask what crate motors are available for these cars and what price range am i looking at?

built91Z28

This is a very vague question. How much work do you want to do? Do you want a stock motor? Does it have to drop in with zero modifications?

If your looking for a stock motor, go to Summits site and search for an engine for your car. It will probably be a little over 2 grand. If it doesnt have to be stock, then the sky is the limit. How much do you want to spend?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The following link provides many ideas (I'm running the 350HO Deluxe, BTW):

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...S&Category=130

JamesC

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The "new direct replacement" answer is "none".

You can get rebuilt engines, engines that will "fit", engines that are upgrades, etc. Prices range from about $1000 (and you should be wary of anything that cheap), to the 10's of thousands.

85ProjectIroc

yea i went and looked some stuff up and they are quite expensive. i think it may be cheaper to just build it wether its taking the motor out of the car once i get it or buying a block and building it.

i mean i could just rebuild the top but then depending upon how much mileage is on the motor putting that extra power may prove to be too much for the older internals. honestly i really only wanna spend like 3k on the motor. atleast for the time being. i dont wanna build the top up only for the motor to blow up in the long run. im not really a mechanic, im gonna have ppl helping me do this so im trying to get as much info for myself as i can be fore i go into something like this

is that a realistic number to build a motor from top to bottom with i guess middle of the road parts( not the cheapy's but also not the best out there)? cuz im assuming im gonna have to upgrade or rebuild the trans also as well s replace or build the rear cuz i heard the stock rears in these vehicles weren't that great. im hoping to only spend another 2k at most for those pieces.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

What are you trying to "fix" or improve?

85ProjectIroc

i was just hoping to beef up the motor and i guess kinda make it "new" again . i've always liked the 3rd gen camaro's and i want to make mine unique to me and what not. i know it will take time to do all this. also i was asking about the other things besides the motor because i dont wanna improve 1 thing which could lead to other problems with other parts of the car.

i just wanna have a nice summer car and maybe run it a couple times at the track to see what it can do but nothing really serious when it comes to racing. just a nice fast street car that will eventually look good and give you that nice big grin across your face when you hit the gas and smoke someone on the local road or highway in your town haha.

thats why i came here to try and learn from all of you guys since you are far more knowledgeable than i am. as i have said in other threads here, thank you to everyone who responds to my posts and gives me any kind of advice. i am very grateful. just a man trying to acquire knowledge and learn something new so when i go into this project with the ppl who are gonna help me im not a complete moron and just stand there with my hands in my pockets.

at the current time i dont have the vehicle if you were wondering that. im still looking for the right one and have yet to find it. if i can even just find a roller in my area then go from there that would be fine wit me. for the time being its just planning and learning. once again thanks to everyone who will put there opinions in to help me out.

also i saw somewhere that these cars ran 15 stock. i was looking to shave like 2-3 seconds off that. maybe that could be a gauge to help u understand what im trying to do when i get the car. plus appearance improvements over time

hope that answered your question

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I assume we're talking about an '85 IROC. If so, that means we're talking about a 305. But, it could be an LG4, L69, or LB9. Which do you have?

Don't spend any money on the shortblock. It just doesn't return anything for the money.

If yours is carb'd, and you want a 13-sec street car, check out my Berlinetta #1 set-up. Ran 13.4's at sea level (didn't have time to sort it out when I was at sea level, does very well at altitude, probably would have done better at sea level with a little tinkering), driven daily including today after a foot of snow last night.

85ProjectIroc

well to counteract the fact that they didnt come with a 350 in 85? i could buy a block and just go from there am i right? then just install it after its done. if that's the case and what i have to do, will there be any fabs needed?

also one other thing: my manager at my job says he has ppl in his town who he knows who do motors and he said he could have the bottom "built" for me for around a grand. idk what it would entail but does that sound like a good price to you guys?

also like i said i dont own the car yet. still looking plus saving the money to buy the car when i find one. im kinda looking to keep it cheap when it comes to buying the car/roller. this way its my project(with help) and when its done i can have that satisfaction that all you guys have had in the past when your beast came alive(maybe not as much since you all probably have been be a little more hands on than i will be, due to my lack of knowledge atm).

SeanW

Yeah you can just buy a different motor(350) and go from there. The differences between the 305 and 350 are internal so changing it out isnt an issue.

A grand to do the bottom is hard to judge. If we are talking a strict shells and rings job its very little money in parts. If it includes pulling the motor and putting it back in then its a good price, depending on quality of work. To me any bottom end rebuild should include having the block hot tanked and new cam bearings installed as well as having the mains, rods, crank and bores checked.

A stock bottom end (350) can handle a lot of power. What is won't tolerate as well without some upgrades is extremely hi revs.

With a three thousand dollar budget i would personally look for a decent low mileage one piece seal short or long block that doesn't need machine work. Then spend your money on heads, cam and induction.

85ProjectIroc

thanks for the input. would you guys recommended taking the time and saving money to buy a turn key motor over rebuilding considering the fact im no mechanic? i mean i have friends to help me build the top but the bottom i will still have to find a reputable shop who can do the work for me.

ive been looking at some websites that sell crate motors and they're so nice haha but im wondering all those extra "packages" they sell like for the alternator, power steering, ac etc. are they worth the extra cash or should i just get that stuff myself?

i mean all that show stuff is nice but by the time im done ordering what i "need" it could be 10k out of pocket and thats not even with a trans, rear, suspension, body work etc. idk if im willing to make that big of an investment. 10k for everything besides maybe body work n paint isnt terrible i guess but just for a motor... idk about all that. lemme know what you guys think

SeanW

Unless you buy a V6 car there is no reason your factory alt., p/s pump and other front accessories wont swap over.

I can't stress this enough. Bang for your buck is in your heads, cam and induction. Exotic strokers and forged bottom end pieces are great but unless you are doing a max effort build they are unnecessary and not cost effective.

Doing the top end on a stock short block can net in neighborhood of an additional 150HP. There is simply no cheaper way to buy horsepower.

Exactly what is spending a grand or so on some "mechanics" short block build on a 70s engine going to give you that a good used 90s short block that was built with state of the art machineryat the factory will not? Ask yourself what you would like to see under the hood more. A beautiful top end on a used short block with fresh paint. Or an old top end on a used rebuilt short block with fresh paint.

If maintained properly the stock short block should have a serviceable life of about 300,000miles. So if you got a motor with say 50,000 on it, its still basically brand new.

85ProjectIroc

so pretty much what your saying is that if i buy a block, expensive internals are not necessary? something similar to the stock bottom end will suffice? just get good heads, nice intake, nice carb and a nice cam and i will see sufficent hp gains. plus a nice exhaust setup and she's ready to pound the road.

one other question i have is when you buy heads are they pretty much assembled when you order them or do the other parts need to be purchased as well? if so what else would i need to get? once again thank you for your help

one other thing lol. with these hp gains will i need to upgrade the trans components for it to be able to handle the power gains?

85ProjectIroc

also one of my friends i work with has a built ws6 6 speed tranny that he is going to take out of his car once he has money for the auto he wants(he wants to do bracket racing so he wants a auto cuz its more consistent).

he said with the work done its like a 4-5 grand tranny. he said he would sell it to me for $2500. good deal? what would i need to do this swap? would it be smarter when im looking for a car to get a 305 wit the t-5 then just do the motor and trans swap? yet again thanks for any input i receive. you guys have been very helpful to this point

SeanW

Assembled heads should come ready to bolt on. Most people will take them apart and check things for themselves but it shouldn't be necessary. Assembled heads will come with rocker studs so all you need to buy is rockers.
If you get a roller block then you can reuse the lifters and the only other valvetrain components you will need are pushrods and a timing set.

Can't help you on the tranny. Only messed around with the older stuff.

85ProjectIroc

ok i understand most of what you said but what do you mean by roller block? sorry for not knowing.... this will be my first time doing this so im trying to acquire as much knowledge as i can before i start this in probably 3-4 months from now.

SeanW

By roller block i just meant a motor that cam factory equipped with a roller cam. That way you can reuse the factory lifters and spider. A big part of the cost in converting an older SBC to a roller cam is the lifters.

Klortho

How is that possible? You can't even get that much with a head cam swap on an LS1, much less a regular SBC.

SeanW

What does one have to do with the other? Oh yeah, absolutely nothing.

I will explain the painfully obvious. The stock LS head design is far SUPERIOR to the old school SBC therefore aftermarket heads are LESS of an improvement on those motors.

The best factory SBC head only flows are 220cfm on the intake side. Compared to say a 195 AFR head flowing 300cfm and using the 2hp per cfm rule you can see the AFR has the potential to make 160hp more then the best stock head.
A roller cammed stock short block motor with very good heads can make in the neighbourhood of 450HP.
Companies like Edelbrock, Holley and Trickflow sell complete no brainer top end kits that run in the 425-450hp range.

Am i missing something here?

85ProjectIroc

now now no fighting guys haha

crystal383

your buddy's six speed (t-56) might bolt up behind your block. if his ws6 is between 1993-1997 it will bolt right up. if its 1998-2002 it won't.

and if you're wanting to buy a block that came from the factory with a roller cam all the third gens from 1987 and up came with hydraulic roller cams.

crystal383

if you said 3000 is your spending limit on the motor i don't think you'd have a problem making good power if you put one together.

you can find the whole 350 rotating assembly's at summitt for pretty good prices. here's one for ex.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-B13402E000/

and also check out cnc-motorsports. they always usually have good deals and specials.
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/category.asp?CtgID=1020