With the growing popularity of bio-diesel and the rising gas prices, has anyone heard of a diesel swap in a camaro???

Not only for the cheaper fuel but how about that torque. Now I don't know if you all will hate me for even thinking about this or not but I love the concept of diesel engines.

I would atleast keep it chevy and put a duramax diesel in it as long as they're good enough. But, I have not done any research on the duramax so if I couldn't get the power I was wanting out of it I would probably go with a cummins.

I guess it also depends if either would even fit in the the car but I'm sure with enough cuttin, grindin, and weldin I could make anything fit in there. Just have to have the will, "where there's a will there's a way."

Anyways I hope to hear some interesting feedback from you all.

 

Do a search; this comes up now and then...

 

i would go with the duramax cause i have see them do some impressive things with them

 

Around here, diesel isn't NEAR as cheap as it used to be.

It used to be comparatively cheap. Now, it averages mid grade prices, or higher.

 

Last time I knew the price of diesel it was about the price of mid-grade. But that's why I said "With the growing popularity of Bio-diesel". It's rifined waste vegetable oil.

My dad lives in Tampa FL and he makes his own bio diesel for his old chevy truck and a old mercedes he bought. Last time I talked to him he said it made the truck quieter and better, the exhaust just smelt a little funny. I always heard bio diesel exhaust smells like french frys, but hey I've never smelt it.

And the best part, he says it only costs him about 60 cents per gallon. Thats cheaper than I have ever seen gas, which I'm not very old(22).

And that's not using two tanks to get it started off of diesel and that's not spending 4k for a kit. He explained to me 3 different ways to do it and chemically refining it is what you need the 4k kit for.

He just filters the oil, adds 10% diesel(or kerosene i don't remember), 5% of some diesel additive, and 5% of some stuff that the people he got the plans from sells. Then all he has to do is pump it in his truck. Sounds a little too easy and cheap to me.

Sure the heck beats 10mpg at $2.79 a gallon!

 

One of the writers for hot rod was thinking about Dropping a Diesel into a first gen. He had a Number of people tell him that is far from a good idea. Including a reputable Diesel Experts. The biggest problems that got sited to him was the heft of the motors siting in the front of a Uni-body car.

 

That, and any decent diesel will tear up the body.

 

what so differant from a built big block? lots of touq and it heavy, i would like to see it done.

 

Sure its a good compairson but Diesels are much heavyer then even all iron big blocks. I couldn't find actual figgers I spend about an hour last night trying to find them. There is one other problem that shows up when you start into the swap prosses and this is a huge one. It's the trans, A regular trans will not work, It might bolt up and adapter plate solves that problem but the big problem is the gear ratios. Gas motors will red line at aroud seven grand diesels will red line at around 4. For strength and Ratios swaping trans's is the best way to go. The problem in our thrid gen's we use a tourqe arm sure there is a adapters that is the simple part, the Complex part is Shortening the torqe arm and hope you don't trough out the gemoitry of the rear suspention out to much.

 

jegs makes a touq arm that relocats to the tunnel, thats easy. The trans well a th400 would work behind an old gm 6.2l and the 6.5l. We had th375's in the old hummers and the newer ones have a 4l80e so it can be done. and just change the rear to a 4.11

 

There was a TV build a lil while ago on a 65 Impala getting a turboed Duramax stuffed in it to the tune of 850 hp 1200 lb/ft on bio diesel. And to cap it all off they put it on a drag strip with a Lamborghini Gallardo and the Impala stomped all over that poor lil Italian "supercar" (? LOL) But the Camaro is way to flexible for that but I would like to see someone mod the hell out of one and do it. It would be scary!!

 

The 6.5L Detroit Diesel uses the same mounts as a SBC, weighs the same as a BBC, and has an SBC bellhousing bolt pattern. For a duramax setup, you basically need the tranny, engine, computer, dash, etc. etc. basically you need a donor truck. The 6.5 can be made comparable with the Duramax. It all depends on how much money you want to throw at it. If you're looking for more lowend torque and cheaper gas, it might be the way to go.

Also, the chemical refining of biodiesel doesn't cost $4k. You mix two chemicals with x amount of filtered used oil, and you let it set. You can do it in a 50 gallon drum.

 

What does the 6.5L detroit diesel come in??? Semi trucks?

I'm sorry but as far as the problem with the torque arm goes, that's not even a problem to consider. If I put a diesel in anything I'm going to put the diesel rear end in it also with the diesel tranny.

I'm not suggesting to make it as easy as you can, I know that things break, i know camaros twist. Anyone that has been to a track and watched drive shafts drop and engines blow knows that. Almost everyone has heard stories of people in third gens breaking windshields because of too much power, also I've heard of people poppin out t-tops with too much power too.

If anyone ever does it I would imagine that if they have half a brain the car will wiegh 1000lbs more than stock if not more. It would have to have hellacious reinforcement. And I doubt there would hardly be factory part on the car besides interior and the body.

We'll see how much trouble I have with putting the Cummins in my '98 Dakota then I'll decide if I wanna try a diesel in the 'maro. Probably never will happen but it's fun to think about.

 

The 6.5L Detroit diesel started in 92 in all GM diesel powered vehicles. It's still in use in Mil-Spec vehicles like the Humvee. It's little brother was the 6.2L Detroit Diesel. It was replaced in consumer versions by the Duramax 6600.

There is no difference between a diesel rear or a diesel tranny. A well-built Turbo 400 would be choice for a cheaper dead-reliable transmission, but if you need overdrive, the only real choice is a 4L80E, which is an overdrive rework of the TH400. A 700R4/4L60 would have a lot of problems living under that much torque. Something other than your stock nine or ten bolt would be required, as well. Just because the torque is so much more than a gas engine makes. You could probably build up a 10 bolt to the right point, but I'd feel safer with any of the aftermarket rears, be it D60, F9", GM12.

 

6.5 Detroit is the same motor as the 6.2's in the 80's Chevy and GM pickups with some minor changes, computer controlled turbo charged. GM started putting them in 3/4 ton trucks starting in 89 iirc. I know for a fact that the 6.2 in my C10 weighs more than a 454. The entire vally area is cast iron, not open like they are on the gas engines, plus the blocks are beefier than gas engines are, more metal in them.

 

for the rear a bolt in 9" will work just fine. but yes the chassie will need to be reinforced subfram connectors will help but i would do them as well as a cage, wonderbar, strut tower brace. ect...

 

Other than the limited RPM range, weight of the engine (and turbos), and the fitment, the size of the exhaust that would be needed, tuning, managing the torque and the fact that the thing would want to under-steer like a freight train off the tracks, I've considered it for my car.

Banks makes a twin turbo crate engine that makes 700-800 hp and around 1000 tq, revs to 5000 RPM (due to new, lighter internals) and doesn't smoke black. That would be pretty cool, in my book.

 

for the exaust a 4" mufflex should do

i was talking it over with a very knowlagable friend and now i'm thinkin about doing it, but i will probably just end up doing the lsx swap again, will see

 

I forget where I found this Firebird...

 

I probably wouldn't have used the 4BT, it's kind of low rpm, low speed, but...

I wonder how it gets around??

 

Scary was closer.

6.2's, 6.5's, and 6.5 turbos were all used in the military vehicles. Something to think about if you're looking for sources.

Not all 6.5's were turbo or computer controlled. The heads were changed as well as the bore vs. the 6.2 to improve head gasket durability among other things. Cooling was improved in '97. Various turbos were used over the years ('92-'00).

I've got a '95 6.5T 2500HD, has 294k miles on it. On its 3rd injector pump. The truck weighs 5600 lbs empty. A mighty 190 HP. Still moves out smartly.

The NA engine weighs 650 pounds, 35" long, 28" high, 28" wide. I think it would be a better fit in a B-body than f-body.

 

Bringing this up from the dead...

Would love to haul the 6bt out of my truck and put it in the car but it would tear it apart. (not to mention the back 2 cylinders would be through the dash!)

As for the 4bt, nothing wrong with that. No different than a 6BT other than the missing 2 cylinders. they are very capable of 1000hp/2000ft/lbs+ much like their bigger brother. But, they are pretty damn heavy yet, 800lbs+

 

I have an '83 C10 with the 6.2 diesel. Driving it home, with it's OD not working (700R-4) it got 24 mpg.
I've long considered this swap, as no other diesel of this displacement or larger can even approach the mileage my last 6.2 got. It had a manual trans, and exceeded 35 mpg the first time I checked it.
To have the only F-body getting 35+ mpg would be cool, even though 130 HP @ 3600 RPM and 240 TQ isn't very impressive.
But imagine stopping at a red light. Everyone hears a diesel, but sees only a Trans Am. They'd be looking all around.
This has NOT been a priority, and may never get done, but it's nice knowing I could.

 

I think the 4bt camaro would be a riot!

With little more than a 4k gov spring set and a few free tweaks it will have more power than a stock car could ever handle.

Then if you really wanted to get crazy, a benched pump, injectors and some compound twins and your into the 1000hp/2000ftlb range

Hah, wouldnt that be sick to see a f-body with a hood stack blowing a 200' plume of pitch black smoke straight into the air!




Edit, heres a short clip of a slightly modded 4BT out on a trial run. pushing 600hp/1400lbft all the way up to 6000rpm, this was before they opened up the pump!

That thing is pretty sick, didnt even have to touch the go-pedal to get through the little mud hole, i dont know what they want more power for lol

wish i had one to dump in the car...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxxDxnlwsps

 

It makes no sense to spend ten grand on an engine just for 5 mpg improvement, at best.

 

BINGO!!! The only engines your gonna get huge mileage out of would be the older model 6.2/6.5/4bt engines. With any of those your car will move like a slug. To make a 6.5 compare to a stock duramax it takes about $8000 in modifications and then reliability is an issue. There is a guy on another diesel forum that is in the middle of putting a DMax into a 69 camaro, hes not the first one to do it but you need to have DEEP pockets. Frame stiffening/upgraded suspension/rear to hold power/transmission/custom driveshaft/fuel system/4" exhaust minimum ect...

If you are dead set on trying it I would look for a chevy van with the DMax. The have a non-intercooled 6.6 that is backed by a 4L80E. I think stock power is 280hp/500tq range (dont quote). You would need ECM/TCM/and all wiring harnesses.

 

twin turbo'ed LQ9

 

something to ponder....

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...gal/index.html

 

I sure am happy to see all this interest in such a crazy subject. It is also on my list of things to do to a 3rd gen before I die, hahahahah!

Seriously, I hope somebody does it!

 

Oldsmobile used what was essemtially a stock 350-Olds small block as a diesel at one point. The block was the same as the gas 350 Olds, but a little beefier. Popular with the Olds racers, because all the gas motor stuff works on them, but its a much stronger block.

Just fuel for discussion...

 

I paid $700 for the 6.2 diesel and the truck it came in, and the truck was running when I bought it. A 6.2 will be slow, but a 6.2 is smaller externally than a 454. Duramax is not.
There is the banks turbo kit for the 6.2. No 6.5 can equal any 6.2 for miles per gallon. The 6.2 is lighter than a Cummins 5.9, which is too long.
Yes, a 1000 ft-lbs Duramax is up by 10 mpg over a 1000 ft-lb BBC, but that's apples to oranges.

 

With this talk of MPG....Diesel costs well more than standard gasoline, so there goes your MPG "advantage".

It might be different, like years ago when diesel was the cheapest fuel.

 

2 identical pickups, 2 identical trailers, one's gas, the other's diesel. The diesel's gonna get 3-6 mpg better, that's 20-50% better, so even if the fuel costs 10% more, which it doesn't, you still save.

 

Let's see...I saw 87 $1.54 last night...Diesel for $2.54.....You tell me you think the 3-6 mpg would be cheaper.....

 

Once the cost of fuel is factored in the difference is pretty close to nil. But my truck for instance will run low 13's, has 6 seats, will tow anything I want, and empty gets 21-24 MPG, loaded 15-17 MPG(6000+lbs). All a duramax needs is a tune, exhaust, trans upgrades and 530-550 RWHP/1100-1200 RWTQ is easily achieved. Now put that into an F-body

 

My local gas station as of this morning:
Unleaded regular: $1.379/gal
Diesel: $2.289/gal

Difference: $0.91/gal

Percentage difference (based on gas price): 65%

My 6.5T 2500HD highway mileage: ~20 MPG

Cost per mile: $0.1145

Brother's '93 C1500 LO5 highway mileage: ~15 MPG

Brother's cost per mile: $0.0919

 

yo, skyhi4by, a used Durasmackme costs $4500 without the computer or trans. $4500 will get me an LQ4, a T56, and nitrous, If I'm smart about it.
31 mpg highway, I'm ahead by the cost of the Allison, the custom exhaust, etc., and it'll run 10s easy. Too bad I don't have $4500.

 

Oh, did I mention my front end will be 1000 pounds lighter, and I won't need a full rollcage to control chassis twist? Plus the weight and cost of that.

 

keep in mind diesels last longer as well. much longer.

 

Im not saying that a DMax would be easy on the pocket book. All Im trying to say is that the DMax is the best DIESEL option.

I would take torque over horsepower any day and the diesel powerband would be WAY smoother and stronger than any gasser out there, just look at dyno sheets. I think for DD/street the diesel option would be more fun but I would rather the LSx for racing any day

PS Diesels like NOS to

 

Noroxus needs more education. GM has tested several LS F-cars past the 300,000 mile mark. These engines last forever, especially just idling down the road.
Even a 100-horse nitrous kit will shorten engine life, even if there's NO detonation, but no 700 horse Duramax is gonna see 300,000 miles without having to come apart for service as well.
I'd have to conclude that the durability issue is a wash.
In my case, I'm looking at $900 for a master rebuild kit for my 6.2, and then another quarter million miles of good service.

 

300,000 mile testing is ideal, take it easy miles. completely useless when it comes to street driving. 300,000 miles is a rarity on the street, let alone a track car. i have personally owned, as well as have friends who own diesels putting down big power due to bigger turbos with nothing more than headbolts, they are all (with the exception of my uncles 09 ram) in the 300k-480k range....no rebuilds by the way. and they tow with them as well.

i get my information through experience. not hearsay.

forgot to mention my fathers little S10 with 510k when the odometer broke...5 years ago. hasnt been rebuilt. though the valve guides are starting to die. my SBC could only hope to live that long.

 

Really? I think he's well educated. And what Noroxus said...

 

Thats a good one.

 

I to think the durability issue is a wash.

Stock DMax internals are good for about 550 RWHP. After that you may bend are rod or crack a piston. A stout rebuild will cost about $15K (turbo(s),duel fuelers ect...) Diesels ARE NOT cheap. There are guys out there throwin down $50K just on the engine build alone.

 

I only heard one mention of the 5.7 L olds engine and it was the old
saying about the the diesel being a 350 gas conversion, whatever.

I have one that had 350,000 on it and then my dad rebuilt it, had the
injection pump turned up and it got 28-30 mpg in a old 82 Buick Electra
with 2:42 gears.
Let me tell you thats a full 5000 pound car.

When the bumper fell off cause of cancer and wouldn't pass inspection
it got parked.

I still have plans of putting it in a third gen or a caprice (which ever I
find a nice one of, first).

Also food for thought is the 4.3 L olds diesel, it was 3/4 of the 350.
It came with aluminum heads and intake.

I had one of in a olds cutlass. That car got 34 mpg for 155,000
miles till I got water in the fuel and blew the tip of an injector off and
had a cat-tast-rofy, the bent rod I could replace, but the head that
almost broke in half was another story.

I'd have to look at the book for the years,but IIRC the 5.7 was from
1979 to 1984 and 4.3 around 1982 to 1984. There still has to lots around.
They were WAY lighter than a 6.2L.

 

Yea, but not the guys with a real engine... *cough* cummins *cough*


Factory internals of a 5.9 are reliable up till almost 1000hp/2000ftlb, then at that point you dont need much more than a girdle, head studs, 60lb valve springs and a fluidampner to spin it over 4k rpm and have a reliable 2000hp+

Anyways, i get a kick out of this milage debate. My 6bt dodge, with a few little tweaks can push the 6000lb+ tank of a truck down the highway averaging 25mpg. Their are guys with 4bts in their 1/2tons that are averaging over 30mpg.

You tell me that it wouldnt get some freaking good milage after throwing something like that into a 3000lb 2wd car thats actually half ways aerodynamic!

I know anything would beat the hell out of the milage my car gets... And the nice thing about a diesel is, you can have a 1500hp/2500lbft diesel, that still gets 25mpg in a truck if you can keep your foot out of it. try that with a gasser!



But, the 5.9 is a little too big for the ol 'maro...

Like i had mentioned before though, the p-pumped 3.9s are capable of more than enough power to twist the car to bits and the milage will be through the roof.

 

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned they saw on tv of a mid-60s Impala with a Duramax. That was on Pimp My Ride, it was an eco-friendly episode.

Someone also mentioned Olds. 4.3 diesel, which he was talking about the V6 one. There is also a 4.3 Olds. diesel V8. The V6 version was better than the other 2 Olds. diesels because they actually put a decent number of headbolts on it and it didn't blow headgaskets, unless you get water in it.
If you want to know more about Olds. diesels go to olds-diesel.com

Yes, I do have a Olds. 5.7 diesel in a 1980 2 door Pontiac Bonneville Brougham.

Here's a 77 Corvette with a 6.5 GM diesel
http://www.thedieselpage.com/readers/vet.htm

 

wow, averaging 48-55mpg on an inefficient IDI diesel!?!

Now im really interested in seeing what kind of milage numbers a 4b f-body would get!

 

diggggg

worth it!