FBLT4

Hey all,

I have laying around an engine from a 1991 Audi 80. I was run off the road by a car and drove in the grass at 70mph and rolled the car. I pulled the engine and transmission before I junked the car. I also have a 1982 Chevy Camaro 2.8V6. Slow as anything and it leaks oil pretty badly, its burning up on the exhaust somewhere.

I had a thought of combining the two cars. Pulling off the Subframe of the Camaro and cutting off the notches where it bolts to the car and welding them onto an Audi subframe which accepts the Audi engine.

From my research and speculation, the Audi's wheelbase is 100.2 inches and the 1982 Camaro is 101.0 inches. So if mounted properly the tires would be .4 inches on each side closer to the inner. If this space causes a drivability problem, it could be corrected with small spacers I assume, similar to the ones which allow 4th gen rims to be used on a third gen hub...

Does anyone have any recommendations or knowledge of possible problems I may run into if I try this? The purpose of this project would basically be to replace the V6 garbage super slow engine which probably has a leak at the main seal anyway with an engine and transmission that I have laying around which I know is in good condition. Also, it would serve as a manual conversion for me, the car is Auto now and I hate Auto. And also, in the future I could buy the Audi Quattro transmission and have a custom driveshaft made up and make the car AWD, and great in snow-like weather.

Any thoughts? Problems? I am good with electronics so the wiring would be okay. If the mounting goes well I would just get a donor car and move all wiring into the camaro, placing the Audi console inside the car for testing. Then eventually I would get schematics and work out wiring to the Camaro gauges, checking that the resistance ranges, etc. are compatible, and if not I would figure a solution for it.

Thanks for any help

-Randy

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

well id like to see this one. im not an audi person so i have no idea what the motor is, is it something special? powerful? 4, 6, 8, 10? 5? i hope you are a good fabricator, maybe install it with a modified stock subframe/k member as opposed to totally hacking the car apart and trying to rig it back together with oddball stuff. its definitely different.

didnt see the AWD part, there is another post about that and its issues

FBLT4

Well when I had the Audi 80 with this engine in it, it was pretty fast for what it was. I got 27 MPG around town which is great considering how much fun I could have with the car. From my research the 82 Camaro body seems much lighter at 2875 pounds. I remember the Audi to be over 3000. Also, it is an Iron block so its pretty strong. Audi makes their stuff very durable, and their cars are all galvanized steel so there is no rust, which I like alot since I live on the east coast... When I had this car driving with this engine, I was able to bang 2nd gear and it would feel like you got rear-ended, it was amazing the bang and pull this drivetrain could give. It's a 5 cylinder engine. A picture of the same engine is at http://audi.org.ua/pics/ng.jpg

The shock towers look like they might get a little in the way, but the engine may clear and there is a unit on the passenger side - an air/fuel meter unit called CIS-E... As I understand it, It's basically a plate that measures air intake and increases/decreases fuel delivery based on the position of the plate. Kind of like a MAF. It could be moved to the driver side and the steel braided fuel lines lengthened to reach its new location.

The audi engine radiator and condensor and cooling fan is mounted on the passenger side you'll see in the pic and all that can be removed because the f-body has room to have that mounted in the front of the car. This leaves a giant empty space so the fuel air meter thing can reside there.

From my online planning, The only worry i have really is if the offset of the subframe-engine mounting point - if it has the engine interfering with the camaros passenger side shock tower.. And if the transmission will end up residing in the tunnel. Both cars have the shifters generally in the center of the car and I don't remember any funny bends in the shifter linkage of the audi... I have a 1991 quattro Audi 90 20V now which has the same block but a different head and from what I remember the driveshaft to the rear end is pretty much in the center... Which would lead me to believe the engine / transmission should be generally in the center of the subframe then.

Some things I am sure I won't be able to find out until I put a little work out and line some things up physically to see where they will go. But I thought a little preliminary planning couldn't hurt and see if anyone else has some thoughts or might think of something I missed.

Thanks for the reply!

-Randy

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iTrader: (15)

um, maybe add at least 500 lbs to that, unless you mean body, as in no drivetrain.

i hope you like the thrill of a huge challenge/undertaking. i just dont know if all the headache is worth the all the time/money you will have to invest in this project.

FBLT4

Could be, I am not sure on exact numbers, I found a few different set of numbers from different websites that contradict eachother... I am not too worried about the weight anyway, I have had 4 people in the Audi and it still was a bunch of fun so that won't be an issue. I don't have performance expectations really, I'm mainly looking to try something new and custom and put this engine and trans to use that i've had sitting in the corner of the garage for months.

My friend has a 69 camaro and he said that Subframe was crazy heavy, so if they are at all similar to the 3rd gens, I may save some poundage on that as well, if the Audi subframe is not so beastly.

I do like challenges, and I am all about doing things that aren't commonly done or at all. I have a 1991 firebird that used to have a seized V6 engine in it now with an LT1 engine and an entire dash and rear end from a 1996 firebird.. That was fun, still in the works though - It's riding on a 700R4 and I am looking for a decent deal on a T56. Thats been fun but this would be completely custom and a completely new idea, unless someone else has tried this before (i doubt it!)

Also, whether I ultimately decide to repair this engine in the Camaro or replace it with another Vx engine, I will have to pull it out anyway, so I could always abort the project if I run into a bad enough jam... And I will just redirect my plans to plan B. It's not like I am pulling out an engine from a perfectly fine working car

Whether Plan A B or C, it all starts with the pull, so I am not too worried about wasted time or effort.

FBLT4

Anyone else have any thoughts?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That says it all for me.

FBLT4

Well it will be a little while until I get even to the preliminary stages of planning/doing this conversion. I will keep you all updated though on any findings. It would be nice to have a gas-efficient 80's camaro which would
have the potential to become all wheel drive in the future. Also, as far as possible future performance goes, I have seen this particular audi engine brought to over 700HP...

I have to finish my engine rebuild of the audi 20V (my daily driver) before
there is space in the garage for the next project. And I do want to make my 1991 LT1 firebird manual... Not sure if that will come after or before the Camaro attempt.

I'll keep everybody posted on any findings for the curious out there in the crowd.

BMmonteSS

The only thing you missed is in my mind the two most critical measurements. Whats the track width of the audi compared to the F-body? Most importantly how tall is the engine and craddle? These will be the desiding factors of whether you can physically fit this in the car.

FBLT4

Hmm, well, I researched the wheelbase... What is the main difference between a wheelbase measurment and track width? I've never heard of track width so I am all ears to learn something new.

From my research, looks like the audi is .8 inches less wide on the wheelbase measurment... meaning the insides of the wheels will be .4 inches closer on each side towards the inside of the frame. Are my calculations correct or did I miss something?

Height I am not sure of... I have the engine on the floor so the next time I'm over there I will take a measurment.

Visually in my head, all I should need to do is fabricate some way to mount the audi subframe up against the body after removing the camaro's subframe thats already there. Whether this involves cutting tabs or segments off the original subframe and welding them to the audi's subframe or making new means of mounting... Once this is mounted in the right spot then I should be set to mount the engine on the subframe, since it has the mounts and will accept the engine, providing the engine isn't interfering with the passenger side shock tower. Then if that all goes well I would be using all suspension pieces and hubs from the audi since the audi's subframe would be installed and ready to accept those pieces by design.

It's never as easy as "should" though once you get to doing it, I have definately learned this many times

I'm ready for challenges and puzzles, however if I do run into something thats a major wall I will just abort it and go on to repairing the original engine or putting in a different engine that fits by design... This is just something I would like to explore the possibilitiy because it would be different and this engine has been sitting around long enough!!

Thanks for the response