Bah

Well..after hours and hours of reading posts, experiences, calling junkyards, said junkyards having NO SBCs(and this is a huge junkyard...i couldnt believe it)...i have made a decision

I would like to get the #12499529 engine, that chea 290 HP engine for near 1700$. I understand its not the best, compression is low, and its not exactly the fastest thing on the block. However, i found this site, which has improved my initial feelings on the engine.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ons/index.html

in short what they did, was change the heads, cam, intake , just bolt on modifications, and got the engine to over 400hp and 400 lbft. More then enough id imagine


However, i dont feel like disassembling the engine, and spending this extra money as they did (mainly because this will be my first engine swap...my dad has done plenty so i do have supervision :0 )

Inside this article what gave me such hope however, was that they got the engine 340+ HP and 370 lbft...just from an intake and carb

Mighty Demon 750 cfm carb
Edelbrock AirGap intake

thats what they used on the dyno...i was thoroughly impressed. However, i am unsure if this will be my exact set up, but it is good to know

now for my whole gameplan to be laiid out, comes the problem w/ the engine

I did search this site, and found an answer..or i hope it is. The engine is said to fit into pre-1985 cars, and this worried me. As i read on this site, the flexplate FRA112 must be used w/ the engine for an F-Body

Correct me if im wrong, but is this the only reason it is MEANT for pre 1985? aside from emisions of course.

I am a 1992 Camaro RS 305 TBI, i plan on scrapping the TBI , going carb.

Also, the car is an Automatic if that makes any difference. Thank you so much for anyone who is willing to help me out. I need a concrete plan before i order the engine, and would be awesome if anyone out there has done it on a 92 even


Thank you,
Bah

Rocket-Doc

iTrader: (11)

I think pre and post 85 were one piece seal?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

'79-earlier had the dipstick on the driver's side. Many of the crate engines would accommodate either side.

'85-earlier had two-piece rear mains seal.

'86-earlier had perimeter bolt valve covers, all intake mount bolts at the same angle, and flat tappet cams.

That engine is two-piece rear main seal, perimeter bolt valve covers, all intake mount bolts at the same angle, and flat tappet cam. Should also be passenger side dipstick.

Normally they say '75-earlier for that engine for emissions reasons. If what you read was '85-earlier, they were either talking about the rear main seal type, or it was a typo. Since you're converting to carb, emissions must not be a concern of yours.

rjt76

If you are going to do anything to the motor besides drop it into your car dont buy it. buy the 350 H.O. much better engine and by the time your done swaping parts you will have more than 1700 anyway. the 350 ho is a roller block and has better pistons, rods, camshaft from the get go. GM did however install a flat tappet in the 350 ho to save costs.

Bah

Thank you all for your responses

Well, it said for emissions on it too (the 70's date), but when we saw the pre-1985 application, i had never really seen that on a crate engine.

I live in florida, so we dont have a smog, but i still think i should have a cat converter..

As for the 350 H.O. ill look into it. I just liked this engine at the idea of squeezing 330HP+ out of it from a siimple intake and carb. My dad has been rebuilding an engine for a while now (he owns an old sprite midget) and he just finished the engine, so really im gonna have to see how much work he really wants to do.

But just so i know, the rear main seal appears to be the only constraint for this car...aside from the regular work of a 305 to 350 swap

Thanks again
Bah

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I wouldn't call the rear main seal a constraint, or even an issue. It's a detail.

The EFI to carb is a much bigger deal.

And you don't get 330 horse out of the 290 crate with intake and carb - that takes cam, & heads - aka "330 HO".

rjt76

I looked into both engines very seriously before i had my 383 built. That vortec 330hp 350 ho is really not bad considering when you put the gm hot cam to it with an rpm air gap, 750 dp it becomes 400 hp. to get 400hp out of that 290 involves putting on better heads= why start with it? the 330hp is also 1 piece rear seal too.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

I had the 290. It kinda sucks with the smog heads on it. With some vortecs, though, it moves the car quite nicely. Id definatly opt for the HO if you want a simple drop in. Also, EFI will be manditory if you plan on running a cat. With a carb, you always run the risk of melting the cat down.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Also, if your going to run the 290, stick with a 650 CFM carb and performer intake or similar. The larger port high RPM manifolds can have fuel distribution issues at low engine speeds since the flow thru them is sluggish. You wont really be able to fully utilize the 750 and RPM airgap, anyway with the smog heads.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Rather than buy that piece of junk 290 HP crate. Buy the HD L31 350 Vortec long-block. It is 260 HP/340 TQ in stock form. It has 4 bolt mains, the same forged crank that is used in the ZZ4, PM rods, and hypereutetic pistons. The camshaft is the same as a B-Body LT1 car. The heads are obviously Vortecs. The stock crappy CPI injection, lame factory truck tuning, horribly restrictive exhaust, and restricted intake setup chokes the life out of these engines and yet they still put up good numbers. With a good intake, carb, headers, properly sized exhaust, etc, it is a 325 HP engine right out of the box. The only thing you will have to swap is the timing cover from your old 305. You will also need a vortec specific intake manifold. Your thermostat will also need 2 x 3/32" holes drilled in the outer edge opposite each other. The Roller Cam Goodwrench Vortec 350 does not really cost anymore than the 290 HP 350.

http://www.sdparts.com/product/12530...er8500GVW.aspx

Bah

You all have very good points here.
To be honest, it was that article that made me *like* that 290hp

BUT originally, my plan was the L31 TBI buildup minus the TBI.....till the junkyards around here decidedd to not have any in stock..



now, i guess now would be a good time to mention...my dad (after looking at the 290hp and going eh) had wantted to go for the 350 H.O....i just saw the price and was a little turned off though...but you all have very good points.

The 290hp is extremely limited in its stock form, and it would be stupid to change heads in the future.....

My dad is concerned with fuel economy now aparently, so he wants to put a triple deuce(6 barrels im assuming?) ...and would you recommmend in essence, the L31 TBI buildup on the 350 H.O.? If i remeber right, you want the LT4 Cam, but not the LT4 Hot cam in the build up..

The cost however, is what i am worried about. Our original decision was to buy a zz4 and just drop it in. However, when i saw the high 13's, i was a bit disappointed

Im open to all suggestions still......but the 290hp is definitely now my last choice

Thanks to all
Bah

Bah

Oh, and about the whole price thing, well i musta miss read or maybe it was a turn key...

http://www.sdparts.com/product/12486...eAssembly.aspx

thats entirely affordable...but is that what i should be looking forward to buying if i go for the 350 H.O.?

Guess i needa do some more research

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Personally, if I was doing the HO, I'd stick with the base engine rather than the Deluxe. I don't like the carb that comes with the Deluxe, and the water pump turns the wrong direction for the serpentine belt set-up. The rest of the stuff is okay, though.

I don't know of anyone who makes a 3-deuce set-up for Vortec heads, but it may be out there.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Barry Grant does and it is like $1,000+.

Bah

Thank you so much again for the replies.

Well, what ive come to conclude out of all of this...

Is i should go for the BASE 350H.O. 330 HP...which is fine with me...i like the vortec heads

Now comes my other question, and i know i should search before i ask, but does anyone have any links to a good buildup to the engine itself?

My goal out of it would be 350-400HP and atleast 400 TQ (If its possible..)

I just want mid 13's ...i got a long way to go i know(the car itself needs alot)....but the 305 has 219k miles on it...its a killer :x

Id like it to be a nice, reliable, street car if at all possible. Im just curious what i should get to achieve all these goals, if they are possible, while attemptiing to keep some driving economy to the car.


sorry if im asking alot..and i should search before i ask.


Thanks,
Bah

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

To the base HO, add:

RPM Vortec intake manifold (Air Gap if you like, not that big a deal which you use)
Vacuum/mechanical advance distributor of your choice (I kind of like the MSD Pro Billet I just got, goes well with an MSD box)
Holley 650 to 750 double pumper
Complete exhaust: headers, 3" the rest of the way back
2200-2500 stall converter
Transgo shift kit if you haven't done that yet
3.42 to 3.73 gears (the former if street > strip, latter if strip > street)

With sticky tires, that's mid-13's.

Bah

Thank you so much five7kid.
Best part is..i know that would cost about the same as the turnkey

yea...the transmission in it definitely is gonna need some work

I like it lol...it sounds alot better then the 290hp ill admit...

so as of right now, i should just leave the cam alone i take it and i should have enough vrooom.

3.42 sounds great. Im loooking towards either a custom rear end, or a 4th gen, which is close to that on some z28s i believe? Oh well....we'll see how much power this engine can throw out and how long all the parts can handle it

Thanks again all of you guys...i like this plan, and it comes out near the same as a zz4 w/ a lower price!

Moldy_Flame

I am in a very similar situation, same year, model, location, and situation. I was very surprised to find this thread. I have a few questions though - would 2.5" true dual exhaust dumping out in front of the rear wheels be big enough to be non restrictive? And how big of a cam will fit in the 330 HO lift wise? My knowledge is somewhat limited since this will be my first swap but my goal is to make around 400hp/tq with that rough idle sound. Legality and economy aren't really a concern to me.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

2-1/2" duals is more than enough. There are factory appearing old-school cars running over 500 HP with 2-1/2" to the rear bumper.

The HO engine does not have lift-modified heads, so you can only put around .480" lift at the valves in them. And, you need to check each and every valve for adequate travel before you do that (unless you enjoy living dangerously).

Bah

hah...glad to see this thread helped!

well here we are now..and of course..no progress ever done...no $$$ and no time...

As for the L31...its been a while so if im talking about the wrong one correct me, but the suburban/truck engine w/ vortec heads...well i ended up calling the junkyard and none there...so that was out

The 290hp is a no...we barely have the time now for an engine swap..can only imagine the other work.

So im back to square one, and in a form of agreeance.

The ZZ4 comes back in to mind. The easy solution. Lazy one too id say but w/e.

My dads new plan, is, zz4, buy a new 700r4 (if i remeber correctly, a site sold one specifically for it) and to top it off, a currie rear end.

Now, he still wants to stick with the 3x2 triple deuce.....logical with gas prices...however, i was curious what triple deuce to even recommend for this engine, and how would you recommend to keep with the triple deuce ? Im sure its posted on the boards somewhere and i appologize for myself...but im really into personalization

I personally started leaning towards doing an LS1/T56 conversion, mainly for gas. we got our hands on a 97 thats being worked on, and we were even considering taking the LT1 at one point.

So..ZZ4 fans(if i remeber right..theres a whole board for them isnt there?

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Don't opt yourself out of the HO 350, it is still a great engine and ALOT cheaper than the ZZ4. The same engine makes 350 HP with a mild cam upgrade and 1.6:1 rockers, with an EFI setup (RamJet350).

A properly setup Q-Jet can get better fuel mileage and MORE power than the 3x2 setup. The 3x2setup is probably the worst setup for fuel mileage that I can think of. 2 bbls naturally have larger diameter throttle bores and larger venturi's than an equivalent 4bbl. That means the vacuum signal through the metering circuit of the 4bbl will be stronger closer to idle and through the mid-range, allowing you to use smaller jets and get better fuel atomization. This will make the throttle response sharper, make more low-end torque, and get better mileage. The Q-Jet is an AWESOME mileage carb, just stay out of the secondaries and set it up properly.

These are all 330 HP 350 HOs.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ula-1_9Wfk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IJHu7TmeS7A

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4l689JKXPnA

Bah

Thank you so much for the reply!


I had forgotten about the 350 H.O. , however, i really think my dad has reached the point where if i mention "cam upgrade" he's disinterested. Not that he doesnt know how, but i really think weve reached the lazy approach :x And for the EFI...well...he doesnt want computer controlled engine...but he doesnt think the car will run w/o the computer? i told him if we do a carb setup, the computer is unneccesary (except the transmission torque lock up? correct me if im wrong..been a while since i looked into it)

As for the 3x2 ...what you said makes 100% sense to me...thats the main thing ive been trying to argue to him about hehe...just stick with the 4 bbl...

Now, kinda of a strange question, but maybe youd be willing to help me out iwth this and convincing him...in a nutshell, which engine would be easier for the swap? A/C and all the rest of the peripherals....because i could convince him much easier towards the 350 H.O. if theres a distinct advantage !

Thank you again for the response...Id really love to see this car getting near high 12's low 13's...but never gonna get there w/o a new engine haha...wishful thinking

And those videos...man if the zz4 is anything like that...i dont think my dad will care how much he spent

Thanks
Bah

tilerob79

hey will that engine
330HP / 350HO GM Performance Parts Base Crate Engine
fit my 1990 camaro RS, thats got a 305 tbi in it.

is it as easy as pulling my block out and putting that one in and conecting everything.

if that one doesnt work can you reccomend another, once i buy one of those crate engines, i dont want to do anything to them except put my headers on them and put it in my car. thats why ive decided to go with a crate. so i dont have to tear apart my 305 with new heads and a cam.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Check out the "budget 350" sticky in the top section of the TBI forum. It's basically a 330 HO with TBI on it.

gdubya038

search ebay for l31 theres a guy selling new short block for around $1200 add your own vortecs approx. 400 and your only at 1700 better than 390 and darn close to the 330