Chris5k

Hello all, im in the process of building a 350. The shortblock was rebuilt by someone else, has new rod/main/cam bearings. I checked them with plasti gauge lol... but were ok as far as that goes. I picked up some vortec heads for $300 that have 80k miles on them, been cleaned and shaved for trueness.I plan on having a valve job done and new springs to match cam.
The pistons in the shortblock look like stockers, cast, and are dished?? anyway I dont want to change the pistons so im wondering what cam/intake/carb to run on this block...
here is what ive gathered is a good combo..

comp xe268
performer vortec intake
speed demon carb

car is auto with 3.73 posi. corvette tq converter according to mad dog transmissions...
what would you suggest and what kind of hp??
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Heads
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...07-06_1603.jpg

Block and pistons im not impressed with

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...07-06_1733.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...07-06_1735.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...07-06_1727.jpg

sorry about the blurr guys their phone pics

TheMutt

what are the specs on the cam? are you sure about your compression?

cam and compression are gonna be your big powermakers if your looking for more power. I'd say you'll see somewhere around 350 horsepower or so.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I think you'll be fine. The dish is a little much, but that's about what I've got, although slightly less dish, and with .021" compressed-height steel head gasket, .025" deck height, & 64cc heads, ended up with 9.7:1 CR. Check the piston-to-deck height, that's pretty important in all this. You'll most likely end up above 9.0:1 if you use a steel shim head gasket.

I would highly recommend the RPM intake rather than the plain Performer. The XE268 will cause the Performer to run out of breath.

F-BIRD'88

Use a thin steel shim head gasket (felpro #1094) . .015" your cr should be 9.5:1

sean86sc

While you are getting the heads done have the valve guides clearanced. Stock vortecs can only handle around .46- .48 lift before there is interfearance. Sounds like it will be a good combo.

Chris5k

Thanks for the help guys, I was worried about not having enough compression. also I was really interested in the edel rpm air gap, any info on that intake??
would a speed demon 750 vac secondary be too much carb for a stock or vette torque converter??

Five7, whats the easiest way to check piston-deck height and what kind of measurement should I be shooting for?

sean, I dont understand what clearancing the valve guides will do for the lift problem please explain, and if this is done would I be able to safely run this cam... will there be any other driveability issues?

Competition Cams Xtreme Energy Camshafts
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,600-5,800 RPM
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 230
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./230 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 268
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 280
Advertised Duration: 268 int./280 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.477 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.480 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.477 int./0.480 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Grind Number: CS XE268H-10
Im using factory rocker arms..

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The piston to deck is measured with the crank, bearings, rods, & pistons assembled. Bring the piston to TDC, use a depth gage or flatedge & feeler gage to determine the distance. Pistons also should list their pin-to-crown height, and those #'s I don't have on top of my head.

With the compressed height of the gasket, you want a total of around .040".

sean86sc

With high lift cams on vortec heads the retainer will hit the valve guide. According to GM performance parts they can handle .480, so you would be right at the limit. You would want to make sure you have enough clearance between the retainer at the top of the valve spring and the guide. The RPM or RPM air gap intake will work very well with that cam. You probably will want a converter that stalls a little higher than stock with that cam.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

the corvette converter "b"-stall converter is right around a 2200 stall converter and is a cheap way to get a little more power to the ground. you *should* be fine with that cam/converter though i'd like to see you go with more converter at some point. and in all honesty, give someone like ATI or BTE and spend the money one time on a custom built converter...i'm running an ATI unit and it's worth every penny.

Chris5k

Thanks for the help this far guys, ill definately keep the converter in mind.
ok so i just ordered these parts from summit... oil pump,pan, and pickup.
cam and lifter kit, timing set, intake manifold, distributor.. $700 ouch.... so now what i need to finish it off is valve covers and a carb really.. plus odds and ends ill get from **** count. SSoooo now the question is really which carb to go with, according to jegs im gathering the speed demon 750 vacuum secondary is too much carb???? what should I do?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It probably is more than needed, but not too much. Personally, I wouldn't go with vacuum secondaries. I'd say a 650 mechanical secondary would probably be slightly better.

Chris5k

Thanks for the advice five7... but I think im going with the vacuum secondaries, I know double pumpers are good for all out performance but this thing is a daily driver and im afraid the dp would be more performance oriented than im looking for...
UPDATE.. I picked my vortecs up from the machine shop, torqued them down to the block with the new comp cams springs installed... finally some progress!!!! it feels good after spending all that money and not seeing anything happen

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

just fyi, i've managed 16city/22hwy mileage with my 650double pumper

Chris5k

Wow thats some good mileage nova... but for some reason im stuck on the vacuum secondaries... it will probably bite me in the rea later down the road but live and learn... the hard way lol.


progress..... the mock up..

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

your leaving alot of potential on the table by sticking with the vacuum secondary carb. and personally, they aren't any more streetable...

Dans87GTA

iTrader: (1)

Also for the converter look at PATC or 700Raptor.com i just ordered a 2600 stall Super Raptor and it was 295 plus shipping i bought the corvette converter 2 years ago and the trans went out so ill see how the Raptor holds up they are supposively the bad asses of the 700R4 ill put a post up whenever im dont and when i get it in the mail i plan on taking pics good luck Thanks Daniel

Chris5k

Yeah that sounds like a good deal!! man i wish i had some more cash right now I think the stall is much needed.....

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The stall is absolutely needed. Any less and you'd be dead off the line, including around-town.

The VS is a very bad idea. There is no such thing as improved driveability with VS over DP unless the engine is over-carb'd. A 650 CFM DP on a 350 with 2000 stall would not be over-carb'd.

Experience is not the best teacher. That's an age-old mis-quote. The proper quote is, "He is a fool for whom experience is the best teacher." Ben Franklin

You don't need to live and learn here. You'll do best by learning and then living.

Chris5k

LOL... good way of thinking about it five7.. you guys pretty much changed my mind on the 750vs.... so with a 600DP what kind of stall should I be looking for, remember its a daily driver

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

the converter stall speed is based off of the cams rpm range, rearend gears, and weight. with the combo you have, a 2800stall speed would work really really well and they really don't drive any differently on the street (i know, i have a 4000stall that i drive everyday)

Chris5k

Well now... after looking at some of the converter prices as much as i think its needed... I dont think its happening.. most of this project has been on the credit card, and its about $1,300 on there thats gonna bug the crap out of me.. I have a grand in savings but thats my "rainy day" fund... well see guys. anyway the update is.... I ordered my speed demon 650dp yesterday WOW the $$$$

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

good deal. you can get cheap converters on ebay and stuff, but they are just that...cheap converters. if you want one that will last, call ATI and have them build it to the specs of your car with the purpose of the car (street/strip, strip, street only, etc.)

Chris5k

Nova, something that i forgot to mention, I hate my camaro.. the subframe is bent in the front.. t-tops leak like hell and the doors sag to no end, tried new pins and bushings on the driver door those really expensive ones.. didnt work and the interior sucks. so im actually keeping my eye out for an Iroc with blown/bad/no engine and trans.. so long story short the custom converter made for the weight of my car may or may not be useless after income taxes the best part is with the 350/700r it could even be a chevy pickup

Chris5k

Hey guys im wondering what fuel pressure regulator to use... I picked out the Mallory maa-4309. summit says it comes with a boost referenced port, can i plug this? also looking at the braided fuel line.. I want to keep the lines as clean looking as possible, not laying around on the hot engine, any advice??? thanks in advance-Chris

Chris5k

I got my carb!! thanks jegs!
getting close to engine swap day.. and im worried that im not gonna get this thing ready to fire up in one day... july 12th is my 21st b-day so i have the 11th-13th off work and plan on getting the engine in and ready to fire on the 11th or early on the 12th.. but the bastards have me working 7 days straight until this sunday which will be my last day to prep for the swap... still no dual feed line for the carb!!! and all accessories gotta be swapped over to the new engine... anyway heres a pic of the DP

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You don't need the boost reference port on the 4309. Capping will keep dirt out of it.

Having a few days straight to work on it is great. The Camaro sat for weeks because I just couldn't get to it after I had it apart.

I applaud your decision not to go into further debt or spend rainy day savings for the converter. When you can afford to do it right, that's the right time to do it. It will be sluggish off the line until then, but that's better than paying for it twice in interest costs.

Chris5k

Thanks five7, id almost pay to not have to drop the trans or pull the engine... but im taking a chance to see if this converter is gonna work decently.. thats big bucks for a good converter, as you can tell by my setup I like to buy the flashy namebrand parts... had nothing but problems with cheap parts, so time to go big on the important stuff anyway I hear yah about letting the maro sit for weeks... back when I first bought mine, all it needed was an engine installed and a k-member (straight one) and it took me a year!!!!! it was horrible. wanted to drop out of highschool to get the $$ to fund my project lol.. thank god im smarter than that
anyway im really wondering what this thing will run in the 1/4.. assuming I cut a 2sec 60, what would you guys say? I've seen a few setups really close to mine but like one or two parts different, holley carb instead of bg or different heads/gears.. thanks in advance everyone-Chris

MaxxMitchell

iTrader: (4)

I have a similar set up, and a stock stall does suck. I didnt and still dont have the cash for a new one. Its not all that bad, kinda like dummy traction control. I have a open rear and from a dead stop if I mash it it wont spin, at first, once the power band comes in around 2500-2700 they start to spin, but not horribly depending on the surface. You will still beable to have fun, and every time you drive the car it will remind you that you need that one last part.

Chris5k

Have you ran your car at the strip maxx???

MaxxMitchell

iTrader: (4)

Not yet. Ive ran my Gtech on it once, and got 15.2 @100. I started spining once I hit 2800 in first, and kept spining untill it settled in 2nd.

Im waiting for my hedmans to get here monday, then those will go on, and hopefully the track on wed.

Chris5k

Dang Maxx, maybe with some traction you can do better??? im hoping for mid 13's but well see.... I got the engine in last night!!! woohooo.. now on tuesday its gettin fired up!

Chris5k

Ok, it sounds like a beast and im loving it, but after a few minutes with the temp up I found out the oil pan is leaking under the timing cover!! holy ****... what a PITA.. slipped a new gasket in there and well see what happens, if it still leaks ill be pullin it back out all day on my 21st b-day

Chris5k

So, I decided not to work on it much on my b-day.. much dissapointment. anyway is it possible to change the oil pan with the engine and trans in the car?? should i bother trying?? or just pull the motor?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

just pull the motor, you'll never get it out with it in there.

Chris5k

damn... i really am not looking forward to this... dont buy summit oil pans....

MaxxMitchell

iTrader: (4)

Sucks to hear your having problems too. I was going to hit the track last wed, but I wanted to install my hedman LTs first. Well the gaskets didnt show up utnill late, and when I was bending a tranny cooler line, I guess I ruined the fit in the tranny, so its leaking again. When I was bolting up the header, I had a buddy helping me, and on the passenger front, he crossthreaded the two frist bolt holes. Dont know if i can salvage the old threads yet. Its been 100+* and 90-95% humidity with almost no wind the last few days, so I havent realy been motivated to get out there and fix the problems.

Im hopping to actualy trap 100-104 at the track. 104 would deffinitly make my night.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I pulled the pan off my engine a couple of weeks ago. Had to drop the y-pipe and starter, purpose was to weld the oil pump pickup to the pump to end the problems I've been having with that. Be sure to remove the distributor cap, you need the lift or jack up the engine after removing the engine mount bolts from each side (I put a wood block under the damper and jacked it up that way). I also added a remote starter solenoid while I was at it, I believe the whole job took me slightly under 5 hours.

Chris5k

Well sucks our projects arent working out maxx, hope you can run a tap in those bolt holes and clean up those threads... five7 I decided to put a new timing cover on also, so leaving it in the car would probably be more trouble than its worth at this point... and the engine is sitting in there right now with 2 bellhousing bolts,motor mounts, and t converter bolts.. all thats left.. so when the parts show up ill finish pulling it, amd cross my fingers lol. anyway just as some icing on the cake, i dropped my starter upon removal (the 3rd time lol) and its done...landed on the damn solenoid connector of all places... snapped off the stud and cracked the housing.. yipee!!

B Rhodes

make sure you have the right size gasket for the timing cover to oil pan, there are 2 thicknesses. It might be the old style since you are using an aftermarket pan? Summit can tell you which one to use if its their pan. sounds like you might need the thick one.

Chris5k

Im using the thick one, ive installed my second felpro 1 piece oil pan gasket now and its leaking, but nothing like it was before...

Chris5k

I have a new problem...
My guess is that the oil pump is pumping the oil pan dry..
so, it has about 40 psi at idle roughly 1k rpms.
60-70 at cruising speeds. 2500-3000
and climbs to 80-90 psi at high rpms.
doing a holeshot revving out first and holding to the floor about 1/2 way
through 2nd gear my oil pressure starts dropping... its never gone below 20psi but i ussually let up before that point. my only other thought is the oil filter too restrictive?? but i doubt it.. its a fram ph5 which is about twice the size of the normal f-body filter... what the hell do i do now??? its a melling m-55 oil pump i believe.. from discount auto.. my friend said i would have to pull the trans and install oil restrictors behind the bellhousing next to the cam, which would keep so much oil from being pumped to the top of the engine..
one thing after another