I currently have the f-body pride and joy LO3 . I've been looking into possibilities for a swap. From what I've read, the bbc approach requires some fabrication and creativity, but it is naturally torque-ful and its just frickin cool to have a big block. HOWEVER, the 383, with some effort, can put out bbc power and be a helluva lot easier to swap. I'm not trying to start a war, I just want opinions on the better swap, 383 small block or a BBC.

 

I started with a 383. Although it's an easy engine to use since the third gen is better designed for a SBC, I like my BBC better. A SBC can be made to produce a lot of power but it's limits are where a mild BBC starts. To build a 600+ hp SBC, you're spending more than what it would take to build a BBC with the same amount of power and the BBC can keep going.

The difference in weight is a BS argument since the amount of torque a BBC produces easily overcomes the 100-200 or so extra pounds.

If you want a cheap, easy, swap, install a 383, 406 or 434. If you're willing to spend more for the swap which will leave you more room for growth later, then install a BBC.

In "stock" trim, the SBC and BBC are relatively identical in power with close to similar displacements. The BBC's larger flowing heads and potential for larger displacements allows for more power to be made with little effort.

It really comes down to what do "you" really want, how much are you willing to modify and what kind of a budget do you have.

 

I went through the same thing, and figured that this thing is never gonna be a drag car. Therefore I just went with the cheapest and easiest route, a sb. Like Stephen says, you have to decide what you want. Although I think once I get this project done, I'm gonna slowly build a bb, and start gatherign the parts for a swap.

 

Just remember this, dollar for dollar when building either sbc or bbc, you will get more bang for you buck with the sbc to a point-typically $4-5,000 and under.

if it's just a street/strip type ride, you'll be happy with either.

 

At the track, an extra 200 lbs takes 20-30 HP to overcome. On the street, it takes a bit out of handling that isn't as easy to overcome.

 

I recommend the small block. The big block messes with handling and is more expensive. Unless you just 'must have' a big block it's probably not the right path for you. A small block can put out plenty of power and can just as easily overwhelm street tires.

 

Qwiktrip: Have you had a chance to run that beast yet and get it tuned? I remember seeing many pics of your set-up, super clean and very nice!! Just looking at your sig, at face value with some different rims, that would be one hellava sleeper

 

Unfortunately, no. The car still sits just like shown in the sig with everything done except fuel system and the supercharger needs a rebuild. The main problem is that the car is stored in Washington state about 2000 miles from where I live in Illinois. I hope to ship it out next summer (I say that every year!) but it usually doesn't get high enough on the list of priorities for where to spend money. The big change is that I got married and I can't senselessly through cash at a car any more.

It's been for sale for a couple years but I haven't really advertised it. Kind of a half-hearted for sale attitude. My main problem is that I have a lot of money tied up in the car and my break point for selling is higher than what most people are willing to spend. I'm caught in a dilema... I realize that most the parts in the car are a once in a lifetime purchase for me. I will never drop that much money on a car again. So selling means giving away the possibility of having such a project car. And to this point, keeping it means letting it sit and rot. Got any suggestions?

By the way, you have a really nice car yourself! And it runs!!!

 

Qwktrip, keep that car, down the road you'll finish it and have the time to enjoy. Your rationale makes sense, once it is gone the new wife will make sure you don't spend the money on a car project again. Believe me.

On the sbc vs bbc, it depends on how fast you want to spend....

 

Qktrip: I hear ya, currently in the same situation myself. I'm taking next year or two off from racing since I have to look at expenses at tax time and it's sickening. I love the sport and the hobby, but my business literally takes second place once the track opens and it has not grown as I'd like it to due to the fact...tunnel vision

Business has been better than ever with no racing, no car, nothing like that to waste my money on and distract me, and the fact I'm not getting any younger is making my business a do or die at this point since I dont want to be the one grunting all the time LOL!! Just recently started thinking about selling everything I own car wise so I can buy some bigger equpiment for the biz, I hate loans so everything I do is cash purchase, but I also get impatient and i want my skid steer, dump truck, salt/sand spreader, etc..NOW!!! LOL not to mention the shop I want to build this spring is going to be spendy no matter which way I go...worst part, for what I spend a year racing and working on car...all this is EASILY attainable with no loans. So do i sell and get a head start, or hang onto it since it's my first "real car" I've built to this extent.

All my buddies that have been there done this selling thier "first race car" all regret it, and it's not costing me any money just sitting there so I may just hang onto it and get back to it once I get my shop built and have a place to work on my sheeot at my house...winter time project

You've got alot into it and you'd be lucky to get half on your investment-bad thing about investing in cars at our level and our model/makes, they'll never be worth what they cost to build. I've thought about parting mine out as a way to get closer to invested cost, but then that's a hassle with parting it out, packaging/shipping, etc...

You've come this far, dont let the marriage stop ya. Money will be tight for awhile, but it will change as you get older-I promise I never thought I'd have the play money I have today 10 yrs ago, but keep working and it'll come. The biggest thing in your case is not having it within direct sight, its "out of sight-out of mind". Get that thing back where your at and things will work themselves out.

 

I think you have to set a goal, and adhere to it. I decided I want a 12n/a street car, that runs md 11's on juice. Hopefully, I will reach that this summer. I've told myself then I'm not spending that much more on it. Maybe $500 a year. If you never set a goal, then I don't think it will ever stop.

 

I preach to everyone,KEEP YOUR CAR.I just ordered parts to put mine back togethor,been apart since September.But,it's a toy,and it can set.
I,as a minoraty,really believe these cars will be worth money someday.Before anyone flames me,keep in mind that my Dad,and a lotta other fellas his age have told me about buying first gen Camaros,shoebox Chevys,early ChevyIIs and Novas,etc. for $200-$500.Look at what those cars bring now.Our cars may never be at a stupid level of collectability,but I truly believe they will be worth something.
I've owned my car since June of 92,when I was 16.I never crashed it,and I've kept it pretty nice.It's been painted twice since then,just to keep cosmetics up to snuff.My encouragement to keep it now is my 6 month old son.I figure if I've kept it almost 14 years,another 16 will be a piece of cake knowing my son could drive it someday.

 

Not flaming, but there were just too darn many of these cars produced to warrant any value to them. Only way I can see any of these 3rd gens being of value is if they were a very limited and very special version, but for the hundreds and hundreds of thousands produced, just too many to fetch value since they're literally a dime a dozen...just the cold facts. And when considering how many are just typical run of the mill, value continues to decrease since we never had actual separate RS, SS, COPO, or Yenko versions like cars past. Back then those badges meant something, in "our" generation it's just a marketing tactic.

Sedimental value is about the best we'll see. Buddy has a 1987 GTA, all factory original showroom condition with 60,000 original miles, he's been asking 6K for 4 years and guys come to look, but he's never got an offer over $4k. Sad but true

 

I agree to a point,BUT,in the 80s the "high end musclecars" of today were still pretty cheap,and in the 70s,they were,in fact,a dime a dozen.As far as option packages,yeah,RS,SS,etc.,are worth a ton of money.But first,go find a buildable,6 cylinder 3 speed 67-69 Camaro.Then find out what you'll pay to own it.I can't say in your area,but around here,a car that needs quarters,trunk and floor pans,all the major sheetmetal,will fetch $2500-$4000.Trust me,I've hunted.I know that I'm among a small group of people,and I may be dead wrong,but I still think that our cars will be something someday.They do have the benefit of being the era of car that reintroduced performance,lame as it may have been.But,that's just my opinion.If I'm wrong,in 20 years I'll wish I'd have crushed it while scrap was high .

No offense intended or taken.Love you car,same color as mine,and real similar engine specs

 

Same goes for my truck. It's a 1991 454SS. Bluebook valve puts it around $5000 at best, probably closer to $3000. In mint condition, owners would like to think they're worth at least $15,000.

It's a special factory produced vehicle with about 960 produced in 1991 however there's nothing really special about it. Everything about the truck is just off the shelf factory options. About the only thing special is the 5 bolt axles in a 3/4 ton semi-floating differential. Normally the 14 bolt diff has 6 bolt axles.

I agree with the 67-69 Camaro hunting. Finding one that hasn't been chopped up into a race car or one that isn't so rotten that there's nothing left to rebuild is getting hard to find. When you do find one, the owner already knows what it's worth and is usually asking premium prices for it.

The same goes for anything. What's it worth? Whatever someone is willing to pay for it. You could ask $50,000 for a rusted out 69 Camaro rag top and if someone wants it bad enough, they'll pay for it.

 

The posts about the bbc versus sbc are useful. Thanks.
As for the talk about value appreciation, it definetly gives me a better sense of how many dimes to sink into my car.

85z28guy, I like your idea of setting a goal. I'll do that to save my wallet.

 

Interesting series: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...230/index.html

See the links at the bottom for the individual build-ups & drag strip results.

 

To be really honest, dollar for dollar, day for day, mile for mile, and turning the a/c on after running 11's, w/a small block, looking at everyone loading thier cars on thier trailers, while you drive by leaving the track and everyone is pointing at you, saying something, just couldnt hear what they were saying,.... cause the a/c was on, and the windows were up, that is priceless.... I have never put together a big block, but if I did, I would make sure of one thing, I never would want someone with a smallblock prepared right to embarass me, (if you go big, it better be big and bad), for going through all that trouble to do a big block in a thirdgen, I like driving on the street too much to go that kind of route, with great success, I have seen big block monsters and small block demons, and have been street racing for a long time, and a senior member of the (super sleeper club), I think there is more fun in a sleeper, and more respect, you just have to keep your mouth shut, stay under the police radar, and come out when the time is right, that seems to be hard for some people with big egos, as they tend to chase the spotlight, and post a lot of free advertisement on thier cars,......in my mind it comes down to a few things: money, usability, small or big block, a game plan, funds and time to make it work, and an edge on the competition, and doesnt matter what you build, just listen to the advice of other people that have been there and done that, because they are the ones that have figured it all out, and the famous last words of the sleeper defeat...and the first question asked (to the sleeper driver):
"what the hell do you have in that car?

 

The Chevy Performance article is nice. Gives a good perspective on both blocks. Although it definetely leans me towards the small-block, for cost and easability issues. In the article, the bbc was priced slightly more than the sbc, but for a camaro made for bigblocks. A thirdgen, after all the fabrication work, will end up costing a lot more, in pain and money, to put in a big block.
And Jeffluke has a good point, if I want to put a BBC in, it better be able to take any sb. And that I definetly can't gaurantee to do on a budget. I'm sensing a small block in my future.
Thanks again.

 

(Edited by moderator to remove unacceptable content.)

 

If you read the previous replies, for a thirdgen, its a major pain to put a big block in a thirdgen. 383 would be a bolt in. And from what others have said in previous replies, big power is very possible with a 383. And, AGAIN, as previous replies said, it depends on the individual's needs.

(Edited by moderator for same reason as above.)

 

any one who would buy a small block instead of a big block should be disapointed in their decision.

only a less then correct person would get a 383 over a 454 or 502.

 

Well, guess I'm a lesser person. Everybody in our close group of freinds/racers have went to BBC over the past few years except myself...wanna know the funny part? When talking dollar for dollar we all have really close to the same amount of money overall in our power plants and closest BBC in our group is still consistantly .2 slower at the track than I am To a certain budget point $4K or less when buying all new parts to build a motor, the sbc will walk the bbc since parts are soo cheap a hot sbc can be built very easily and affordibly.

Dont get me wrong, I love the sound of uncorked BBC, nothin like it in the world, but now ask me how many race only bbc powered track only cars I had to spot in in the past few years with this pump gas sbc and you'll change your tune pretty quickly.

I'm of the same opinion as most, if your going to all the trouble/expense to build something with alot of cubic inches, by gawd it had better run like a raped ape or your goofy-hence the reason I have not attempted a BBC, if it's not running somewhere in the 9's on pump gas...what's the point???

 

I guess this topic is a war starter, not trying to **** off you big block guys, at all, as I tried to avoid all conflict with bigblock cars when I street raced years ago, they were beasts, and always hungry, big egos, slow out the hole, and once moving down the 1/4, past the 1/8, explosive, and forget about catching them with a small block, if you dont have the holeshot, forget it, they covered thier mistakes well at the end, I keep remembering on certain race a long time ago when the stars and planets lined up for (the little motor that could), @ 1985, I picked a race with gent driving a 70 LS6 454 m-22, chevelle, I was driving a 70.5 LT1 M-22, 4:10 Z28, bal/blueprinted bottom, w/510 GM solid off road cam, (faded original paint, stock z-mags, w/flying trim rings), that was my first car, (a sleeper was born), his car was the fastest one out that night, till I showed up, the only reason I raced him, is because he barely took a guy that I had raced before, and won, and was talking smack about all the other cars, and how big blocks rule the track, and the street, eveyone laughed as I did a quick burn out to warm up my stock M/T tires, remember this was a street race, and street tires, carb, no juice, and stock rims w 275-60-15's, his burn out rattled my keys on my column, I took him @1 car legnth, and he was closing fast, the first race, and would not let me leave till we raced again, his ego was bruised bad and could not believe that a carbed, non juiced, street driven LT1 could do that to him, second race I took him by half of a front fender, shifting at the rev limiter @ 7200, and just to let you know, I was scared s--t when I saw his headlights (closing fast), this car was pulling on me faster than any other car I took on a holeshot in 1st/2nd, and that damn shift light...I was praying that the 1/4 would end soon, because I was (all out of motor)...and his lunch, when it did... I just squeezed by him, his car tracked at mid-high 11's, but on the street, it was only worthy of mid-low 12's, which was where mine was dialed in at for the street, a week later he told me how much he had into his motor,...and I told him I built mine with the same amount of money he had into all of his chrome, he never expexted me even to come that close that night, or even take him, he told me that he always thought that my car was a clapped out faded old hasbeen camaro, and that he rarely drove his track preped LS6 chevelle on the street,...(bad mistake on his part), he also told me that if he ever saw me at the track, I was in his house, and wanted my title...........My point is my Z was the perfect combo of thought out, time, work, trial and error, and off the shelf parts, that worked extreemly well together, and maximized every part to the limit of failure, spend the money on: bottom end, heads, cam, port work, then the things you can change easily,....forget all that polished alum and chrome, and ...(free) advertisement, IT WILL NEVER MAKE YOUR CAR ANY FASTER,....and if you think that your small block car can street race with a properly set up big block car,..... these days....you better be lucky, ready, and hope and pray the stars and planets line up,....and he makes big mistakes,....because you will quickly learn the hard way,.....at the end of the track, where there is no replacement, for displacement,.....and loose BIG.

 

There is a "disabled railroader" that I have seen carry bare engine blocks around his garage with no problems here in town. He has a 81mazda rx7 that weighs 2800lbs with him in it with a 383/700R4/4.10 gears with fastburn heads, probably 450 horse. If your not running a very low 11 or high 10 don't bother the guy. He loves to pick on the 50K vette guys. He spends all day adjusting, trying this, trying that, taking the car out with his G-tech to see if it helps. He does go to the track and the numbers I stated are fact. These are the guys to worry about.

 

yeah,anyone who would get a crappy 383 instead of a kickass big block should be mocked.

 

What's with the trolls in here, must be boring over on the tuna sites.

 

I voted for the BBC...i`m from that side of the fence, I would go BBC if you really want one...otherwise go big cubes in a small package they wiegh less and cost less and as many have said go "almost as fast" I am, as what has been said, a "sandbagger" Once I get on the tire your done...third gear usually.. wave bye bye! Most 1/4 races I SAIL by the componet by the 1,000ft mark, I mean by alot too- three, four cars at least. I did not see slower 60` times with the BBC but it defintley adds wieght. Like IHI said run 9`s on pump and your doing somethin...still working toward that myself

 

five7kid

Thanks for the link!!! Great article...

 

Does anyone have anything about the trouble to put a BB into a thirdgen. Is it as hard and troublesome as it is said to be? I'm leaning towards the 383 because it will basically be a drop in. Is the BB easier than the general opinion?

 

I thought the links in the BBC sticky pretty well described the issues.

A 383 can be enough trouble to frustrate some. A BBC would be a snap to others. Hard to say how it would affect you.

Personally, I've had putting the 396 in the Camaro at the back of my mind for a couple of years now. That would be after the '57 gets something bigger, of course.

 

Good point.

 

It's really tough to have stuff setting around and loose gears in the head,isn't it?I can't seem to get the 468 that's setting in the back corner of my shop out of my head.