five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The end of the five7kid talking about his souped-up 305. The end of improvements to the small bore displacement configuration. The beginning of the username taking on a new meaning.

Some will say, "No, not the dark side!" Others will say, "What took you so long?" I say, that's life.

One parting shot before it happens:

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Work in progress - day 1.

(Need recommendations for a new air cleaner decal.)

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Does your plenum look like that? 30k miles of daily driving, 1 oz per 10 gal gas of AMSOIL PI at every fill-up. Didn't even stick a rag down there before taking the photo.

Apparently the q-jet galley plugs don't leak, either.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

DEI header paint after 3-1/2 years of daily driving, including winters.

I also need opinions whether I should stick with the Spectre chome covers or grind the rails of the World heads so '87 LB9 centerbolt covers will fit (I'll tell the story if you're interested).

Frank 84 Bird

I just pulled the engine out of my 84 Firebird yesterday. It was originally an LG4 then I swapped in a 300hp GM Crate. But unfortunately it got wrecked. So now that engine is going in my 87 T/A with new heads & cam and HSR. Of course the T/A has a 305 LB9 so I'll be getting rid of another 305.

pasky

Its about time .

What engine/combo do you have lined up for the next one five7?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Next one what?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Keep the decal on the air cleaner. Let the people looking at your tail lights figure it out.

Air_Adam

84RIceEater

what do you plan on doing to your old.. 305?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

are the heads going on the 350? if not, would you be willing to come off of them?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The World 305 heads are going on the ZZ3. I got dished pistons thinking that would lower the compression acceptably, but the #'s I'm getting with 58cc chambers assumed is over 11:1 with .041 quinch (.026 piston-to-deck, .015" compressed height gasket, 10cc dish pistons). I found .020" compressed gaskets, that brings it down below 11. Assuming I took some material out when I polished them and they're now 60cc chambers, that's about 10.5:1. If they're actually 62cc, then I'm finally down to 9.9:1. Hopefully I can get them cc'd after they're freshened up - if below 62cc, I'll unshroud the valves a little more.

The 305 will probably find itself in the great parking lot in the sky.

Air, details on the decal???

pasky

Engine

84RIceEater

What is the advantage and disadvantage of 305 heads on a 350? i always hear about it.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As long as I've been planning and talking about this one, I suppose you could conclude that I've got the next combination working in my head. How about 383?

What are the advantages of 305 heads on a 350? The big #1 for me is - I already have them. They will flow nearly as much as similar 350 heads, so no particular reason to spend another $800-900 and 10 hours porting them, etc. If you have a running 350 with dished pistons and smogger heads, then 305 heads can give you both a bump in compression and, if ported and 1.94" intake valves installed, better flow. Otherwise, if you're building a 350 and need new/different heads, then get some intended for a 350. Chose pistons after you've chosen heads.

Results after Day #2 - and confirmation for those wondering if you can pull engine & tranny with 2055's installed.

Day #3 - removing heads, getting things ready to take to those who can fix things I can't.

Air_Adam

I actually found that on Ebay about this time last year. I've seen them alot on Ebay since then too. Cost me around $10 I think? I just looked, and I couldn't find any current auctions for one, but I'm sure there will be one sometime soon. They are there all the time.

Looks like its made by GM as well, because the backing paper has GM logos all over it. I like it, I think it looks great!

Heres the finished "restored" 5.7 HO air cleaner BTW

84RIceEater

i like it.. will it have better flow than a "Open Element"?

I am Guessing not.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The dual snorkel may not flow more than an open element, but it will put more oxygen in the engine. Why? Because it gets cool air from above the headlights via the ducts, while the open element injests air that's been warmed by the engine.

84RIceEater

i have open element w/ cowl inducation am i losing oxygen?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

do you have anything keeping the filter from suking up engine bay air and only getting air from the cowl?

That is the main reason (clearance being a bonus) for the cowl induction hood: get the cool, low pressure air from the base of the windshield.

edit: ok, cool ,high pressure. my bad.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Make that cool, high pressure air, and I'll second that.

SSC

So are you going to put all the vacuum lines growing under your hood back in?





Edit:


So what are you going to end up doing with the transmission situation?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It'll be a little cleaner without the A.I.R., otherwise just general clean-up, routing, and collecting. I do plan on putting that canister control valve down by the canister and running longer hoses to it - still baffled why the factory didn't do it that way.

A TGO member made me an offer on a rebuilt TH700 with broken front pump and an operating JY TH700 that I couldn't refuse. I know a fellow racer who rebuilds trannys at a local Chevy dealer, he said bring the pump by and he'd put a 13 vane in for me. When the Camaro is up & running, I plan on offering him the current TH700 in exchange for rebuilding the JY piece (I imagine labor only will be the best bargin I can swing) - he wants a TH700 for his El Camino, so I think he'll go for it. He rebuilt the TH400 in the '57 back in '01, and it's still kicking.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Oh, today's progress report. Basically got everything off the 305 that is going to be used on the 350. The valve seals were leaking pretty bad, there was even one exhaust valve where the seal was completely missing - poor choice of seals back in '01. The rebuild will rectify that - positive type going in this time. There were a few other little interesting observations, none that need to be driven to ground, but the most humbling one involved a discovery when the oil pan came down.

FWIW, the LG4 had X rods. There have been debates about that in the past, saying L69 got them and LG4 got regular. Apparently that didn't hold for 1986.

X rods worth anything to anyone?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Dropped the heads off at the shop yesterday, he thought they'd be done later in the week. He said he'll check all the springs, check for clearance for .510 lift with the positive seals, etc.. He also said he'd cc the chambers - just eyeballing, we both think they're larger than the advertised 58cc. I hope so, because 58cc would put me at 10.5:1, a little higher than I want to be. Since I cleaned up and polished the chambers before I put the heads on the, that may have increased the size as well. 62cc would put me just under 10, which would probably be tolerable.

Spent last evening trying to figure out the tranny situation. I have 3 trannys and one converter. The rebuilt one is 27 spline, the other two & converter are 30 spline. I've had it in my head that the difference was the front pump, but it's the front pump and input shaft. Swapping the input shaft requires removal of the reverse & input drums, which involves pulling the valve body. This is getting more complicated than I had anticipated. I may get the tranny guy to do this for me, rather than attempt it myself. And, I think I'll keep & rebuild the '86 tranny, since I've already done the shift improver kit on it.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Just got a call from the shop.
The heads are done (he didn't have anything else going on). The chambers checked out at 64cc! Small wonder I didn't have any pinging problems on the 305. With the block decking, .020" compressed height gaskets, and 10cc dish pistons, that comes out to 9.7:1 CR, right where I was looking.

The Z28/LT4 springs were 110# seat and 310# at .510" lift, right where you'd like them. About half of them were 5# lower compressed, so he put them on the intakes.

Now, get the tranny sorted out, engine back together, clean up the engine bay, do what I'm going to do to the exhaust, and we're back in business.

AutoX86Z28

what kind of pistons did you go with? i just put in a set of Silv-o-lite pistons and i beleive they are a 12 cc dish?

after reading this im glad i put dished pistons in to accomodate my 081 casting heads.


o yea i like the 91 -92 wheels you put on there, i bet those would look slick on my sportcoupe

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The pistons are Speed Pro hypereutectics. Both Summit and SP websites said they were 10cc dish, which would include the valve reliefs. Picture below.

I picked up the rims from a local tire store that caters to the used market. Originally they were used for snow tires, but I liked them better than the chromed IROC knock-offs that the GS-C's were on. So, I had them switched around. These were orginally white on aluminum, I cleaned them up, taped them off (that took about 45 minutes per rim), and rattle canned 'em. I like them, too, although I'm not completely clear on why they have different offset front & rear - turning radius is my only guess, but...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I hope 12cc is enough for you.

Here's a pic of the chambers. The Worlds don't have the sparkplug protrusion into the chamber like 416's or 081's, and the distance between chambers is less.

(Edit: Changed to after-valve-job pic, etc.)

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

In case there is any doubt whether these were intended to be 305 heads:

Motor City Mike

Glad to see that you're upgrading "the other car". Did you get those chambers opened up to the ZZ4's 4" bore while they were out at the machine shop?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

World says their 305 chambers require a 350 gasket.

The only thing done to the chambers was sanding roll to remove casting nubs and polishing.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Picked up the transmission yesterday. I took both the '83 and the '87 junkyard tranny to him so he could switch out the 27 spline parts for the 30 spline parts, and figure out where the check valve that fell out of the pan was supposed to go. He started finding burnt parts in the '83, so he ended up taking the whole thing apart and switching out other things as well (such as steels). The only thing he had to get new was the front band, otherwise he had "spares" laying around. He tried to put in a 13-vane rotor from a 4L60E, but it didn't work. So, just a 7-vane pump for now. It did already have the Vette servo. Since he did so much work on it, I ended up giving him the '87 tranny for his labor, which he is going to put together using other "spare" parts to put in his El Camino. I'll have to pay him for doing the '86 when I get ready to put it into the '57.

Spent Sunday evening with spray engine cleaner and garden hose on the engine compartment & other parts under the car. The engine is almost together, need to tack weld the pickup on the oil pump then install the pan, port-match the intake and clean up the header primaries, change the engine mounts, decide whether I want to send the headers & y-pipe off to Jet Hot or just blast & repaint, etc., etc., etc. Very busy week coming up, I won't have another chance to work on it until Sunday afternoon.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Your progress looks great five. I can't wait to see the final pictures and results.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Sure seems slow to me. I had hoped it would have been quicker, but the more I thought about what I had planned, and how little time there would be during the week to work on it, the more mid-June seemed out of reach. Probably looking at late June, now, especially if I get the headers coated.

84RIceEater

Whats The Rush all About?
Have fun with the swap.Enjoy working on it.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It's my daily driver. I'm driving my wife's car to work while the Camaro is down.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

What prep did you do when you painted your headers with the DEI paint? Did you bake them or anything?

Klortho

I wouldn't get the headers coated quite yet. I have heard stories that using coated headers when the engine is new will turn blue at the header flange due to the higher heat that is put out during the break in time of the motor. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but something worth looking into first.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I cleaned off all of the black paint with laquer thinner prior to painting. I baked the headers in the oven at 400 degrees for an hour, but the y-pipe wouldn't fit so I started the engine and ran for a minute, fixed an oil leak, ran for about 5 minutes to start the cam break-in, fixed other things, ran for 25 minutes to complete the cam break-in, in an attempt to "run-cure" it. The next year, I painted the long tubes on the 396, which also wouldn't fit in the oven. For those, I "cured" the paint with propane torches (I also sand blasted them because they were used, and wiped down with thinner b/4 painting). Although those headers don't go through winter driving, the paint has lasted much better than the y-pipe.

I've heard the stuff about not breaking in an engine with freshly coated headers. I've seen guys with freshly built engines and freshly coated headers "break in" at the track, with no ill effects on the headers. So, I don't know exactly what to think about that. I know I don't relish the thought of installing the engine, breaking in the engine, and then removing headers & y-pipe for another two weeks down-time. And, with roller lifters, no cam break-in is required, which is where a lot of early heat is generated. Besides, header installation is so much easier when the engine is on the stand.

84RIceEater

yeah sorry i forgot that the camaro is your daily driver..

haha did your wife like the idea of car parts in the oven.lol... i dunno if i can convice my mom to that.


why would it be a bad idea if you painted them and installed the engine before you broke it in?

Apeiron

If you'd like something a little nostalgic, see if you can make out my decals in the pic.

<img src="http://www3.telus.net/~crussel/Engine1.jpg">

I'm trying to find a better picture but I can't. I might have to go take one.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

can you explain exactly how you did the paint/torch thing to your bbc headers? i might do something like that to my longtubes, since i am not going to have them coated anytime soon.

todd200

When I had my 416's at the machine shop they also came out ot 64cc's. Strange.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

My wife was amazingly tolerant of the house full of fumes. I did one header at a time, for the first one, I only had the kitchen window open and had to air out the house. For the 2nd one, we put the pets outside, opened all the windows in the house, and took the family out to dinner while the 2nd one baked. That seemed to work...

For the longtubes, I hung them from the garage ceiling to paint and dry. Then, I just took two propane torches and started heating them from the bottom up, right on the paint. It didn't blister or burn (better not!), took about 2 hours each to get them done. I had a fan blowing across the garage to get the fumes out.

I can't quite make out the decals, but I think I know what they are. I have stock repros for the 396 that I haven't put on yet.

There are a lot of reports that chambers are larger than advertised. But, the machinist said he pulled a 441 and 441X head off the shelf after he did mine, and they were right at book sizes. Go figure.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I didn't say it's a bad idea. I'm just lazy, and don't relish the thought of removing and installing with the engine in the car, and another week+ of downtime.

MrDude_1

i like this one better......













....lol seriously though, i just got photoshop, and i thought trying to bend the letters to match that would be a good learning thing with the text tool...


good luck on the new motor.... if you can squeeze the power out of it like you squeesed it on the 305, you'll have a nice fast ride.

Apeiron

They're 383s, I bought them a few years ago from someone on corvetteforum. They look factory, nevermind that GM never made a 383 and small blocks never got the crossed flags.

91Z28-350

Looks good. You work faster than me, and I'm particularly slow and detailed (label, organize, plastic baggie everything, vacuum and mop floor everynight, etc.).

What bumpstick are you putting in, or is it going to stay with your XR264HR (at least that's what I recall you having)?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'm probably not as fussy as I should be. But, things tend to go back in only one way.

I'm using an eBay ZZ4 cam. The cam in the 305 was a Crane 2050 Compucam flat tappet. I'll have more displacement, more compression, less duration, and more lift. It'll be interesting to see how it ends up.