Destructive099

Got a 1992 Camaro RS with a 3.1 L in it which absolutly sucks what 140 hp lol , k what i want to do is put either a LS1 or a LT1 which ever ones better i dont know if you could leave some feedback on that id appreciate it and now questions # 2 say i get the engine will it fit on my stock 700R4 tranny ? And if you asking yourself why i dont just buy a 8 cyclinder camaro, its crossed my mind but this camaro i have no is almost new condition ive yet to find one even close to its condition.

ll-84camaro-ll

well the ls1 swap cost anywhere to 7k-10k and i would imagine that the lt1 swap would run you around 4k-7k. the ls1 is def better but you will be spending more money for the swap and both motors wont bolt up to a 700r4 you will need a 4L60E(auto) or a t56(6 speed) transmission

the price range i listed may not be correct so if anybody else wants to chime in with the correct price range feel free

Destructive099

Ok say i get a LT1 and a T56 Tranny since my cars auto now would it be hard to transform to manual or is it not worth it ?

7plagues

iTrader: (1)

auto to manual isnt really that huge of a deal. the spots are already marked and you need to get the pedals and console. the lt1-t56 swap price is not set because it all depends if you get good deals or not. go here to get a basic idea http://www.geocities.com/texaslt1/lt1swap/swap.html

this has been talked about to death do a search

Klortho

I'm doing this exact swap right now, biggest thing is going from the V6 dash to V8 but since you have a 92 your speedo is electric and cures a major pain I'm running into with the '86 I have which is mechanical. If you want it to look as stock as possible, swap the dash and use the factory gauges. The crossmember will have to be changed if you go with a 6-speed and you can get one from Spohn for around 110 bucks. The engines depending on where you are at and what you can find, I paid 2700 for a complete LT1 package with 6-speed, wiring, PCM, pedals, clutch cylinder, slave cylinder, radiator/fan, and shifter with just a bit over 100k miles on it (I saw the car it came out of) and was a '95 model motor which has the vented opti (which you want) The LT1 engines are almost a pure bolt in with some minor modifications to the crossmember on the passenger side to clear the AC compressor if you use one with the F-body accessories, the Corvette accessories are mounted different, but may pay more for the engine combo. The LS1 swap gets more intense as you have to do things for the coil packs to fit around the heater box and the mounts to bolt it up can be costly. Also I don't know of anyone who makes headers for the LS1 to go into the 3rd gen cars, but Hedman makes a set of shorty and long tube headers for 3rd gen that are D-port (which the LT1 heads are) that will bolt right up for around 180 bucks.

Total cost for my swap will be around 3200 or so after I'm done (I'm doing the wiring myself but several places will make custom wiring to put either engine into an F-body) and you already have the preferred gear with the car being a V6 (mine has a 3.42 already in it, just have to put a posi unit) Also if you go manual, you will need another driveshaft instead of the stock piece for the T56 is 3 inches longer but the ones out of the 4th gens are a direct bolt up.

It really depends on what you want to do and how much money you have to spend and time to do the work.

chomp

Where did you get your setup? Was it out of a totalled car?

I've been looking on ebay and I've seen LT1's with 4L60E/T56 packages for anywhere from $1500-3000. I'd really like to go with a T56 because it'd be more fun (I think) and I'd get better mileage (I put a 3.27 rear end in).

Also, I have hooker super comp shorty headers... is there any reason those wouldn't fit on the LT1 heads? I thought there were the same as the L03 or "third gen" motors...

Klortho

I got the setup from Tennessee Auto in Cleveland Tennessee. The motor came out of a car that wasn't that badly banged up and even saw the car it came out of when I went to pick up the engine. The regular SBC headers will work, but the ports on the LT1 heads are larger and D-shaped instead of Oval so the header actually blocks part of the exhaust port and you could lose some power there so it's best to go with what matches the port.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

The headers should cover the ports fine, though you may want to check before putting everything together, my SLP 1 3/4's completely covered the LT1 ports and then some, i dont believe the D's are as offset as other D port heads.

3.27 is far far far too low for a T56, 3.42 was stock, and even thats too low 3.73 would be a bare minimum for decent driving.

You wont have any issues with the dash, or speedometer, dont worry about what the people guessing at it are throwing around.

The 3rd gen V8 700R4 would bolt to either motor, getting the right speed signal out of it is another game in itself, stick to getting a motor / trans package.

IMHO LT1 swap is the way to go, sure plenty will argue that the LS1 is more advanced blah blah, but when it comes time for performance, unless your going for sub 10 second slips, chances are the LT1 will be more $ efficient.

5.0Camaro

basicly comes down to how much money you want to spend and how much effort you want to put forth. The lt1 is going to be cheaper no where around that and it can be made pretty fast. The ls1 is going to be more expensive and make more power with less mods and imo will be more drivable for the power you have. The ls1 i think can be done for about 6k(thats done right) and the lt1 prolly around the 3-4 range. I'm about to do a ls1 swap as we speak just picking up the left over parts here and there. You dont need to be made of money to do the ls1 swap(just a few summers of working ) but it will cost about 2k more then a normal swap. Basicly it comes down to your decision if you got the money go ls1 if your on a budget go with the lt1 both will be a milestone from what you have and will be a lot of fun to drive.

P.S. - the T56 loves gears got 4.10 in my 1996 trans am and its great.

Destructive099

K now this brings up another question in my mind, I get the LT1 and the T56 tranny and slap it in my 6 cylinder camaro now am i gonna have to strenghten anything i know ill need new coil springs but what about the frame / rear end / ect ? should i weld reinforcements in or get a new rear end ?

Klortho

I was informed by a few guys in the group I am with that with the springs on the front of my V6 car that it wouldn't drop much at all and don't worry about it. You will want to put the normal frame stiffners, wonder bar, strut tower brace, subframe connectors. The rears are the exact same as in the V8 cars (minus the later 9 bolt but those were on the rear disc cars) it may or may not have a posi unit in it which if it doesn't, you would want to put one in.

Klortho

It's not an offset, it's the actual shape of the port that the oval ports would cover the exhaust ports up.

Quote:

3.27 is far far far too low for a T56, 3.42 was stock, and even thats too low 3.73 would be a bare minimum for decent driving.

Depends on what you want, the 3.42 is the best overall gear if you want gas milage and some good performance, from what the guys in the 4th gens have told me 80mph you will be turning around 1600 rpm.

Quote:

You wont have any issues with the dash, or speedometer, dont worry about what the people guessing at it are throwing around.

The speedo is the only thing that will be right, any other gauges will not register correctly, and this came directly from Bruce at Hawks when he advised me to get a V8 dash and wiring if I wanted it to look all stock and professional and to chuck the V6 dash in my car.

Quote:

The 3rd gen V8 700R4 would bolt to either motor, getting the right speed signal out of it is another game in itself, stick to getting a motor / trans package.

You have to have a 700R4 from a 87 or newer Firebird/TransAm, or 90 and newer Camaro/Z28 for this to work. But yes, get the motor/tranny that way you will be guaranteed that the PCM will work.

Quote:

IMHO LT1 swap is the way to go, sure plenty will argue that the LS1 is more advanced blah blah, but when it comes time for performance, unless your going for sub 10 second slips, chances are the LT1 will be more $ efficient.

The LT1 is an awesome engine, but remember if you get one, get a 95-97 since they have the vented opti, has sequential fire injectors instead of batch fire like the TPI engines are

Destructive099

Alright well now i gotta find a LT1 with a T56 Tranny what would be a good price for a LT1 with T56 Tranny say 60k miles on both ? And if anybody knows of one for sale near PA please AIM me at RaptorRacer099 or email at coreyace@ptd.net

MrDude_1

my opinion:


you need to do ALOT more research before you decide.



then ask some SPECIFIC questions.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Look guy, please do a HELL of a lot more research before you go correcting someone who has done the swap FOUR times, and counting, and works with this stuff every day, and would be one of the first few who did the swap.

The SLP headers COMPLETLELY cover the port, i had them, i made a template, i checked and double checked, sling your misinformation elsewhere.

The STOCK 3.42 is pretty horrible, yes 80 MPH at 1600, oh joy, lets lug down the motor a bunch, and set our target cruise speed 10 MPH over the limit anywhere around that i know of, so we can get tickets, real smart, and I did not say DONT USE 3.42, i said dont use 3.27, its horrible, i've tried it with 3.23, have YOU ?

I dont care what some idiot told you, based on his own speculation and what will work with the cluster, or the dash, the 90-92 V6 has the same dash wiring as the 90-92 TPI V8, and would be the preferred dash harness as opposed to extra splicing with the TBI dash harness as it is different for the buffer box. Every single gauge would work in the dash by simply swapping to a V8 cluster, or just changing the tach chip to one from a V8.

Yes you need a trans from a specific year for it to work, yeah f'n right, your post is so stupid and misinformed it isnt even funny. The trans is going to be the same in an 87-89 camaro also, and an earlier year 700 would be no different for the install, but as i said, getting the correct speed pulse is a different story, hasnt been done properly afaik, and is easily avoided by getting the matching trans.

The 94 is also SEFI, which you seem to like to hint to it not being so in your post, and the vented opti point is arguable among some, its not a big deal, 96 and 97 are going to have an obd2 which definetly isnt the preferred choice for the swap.

kevinc

Check contemporarycorvette.com as they're in Bristol PA and deal in LT1 and LS1 stuff. I got my 2001 LS1 powertrain from them for $4400 complete and them some.

Klortho

As for the dash, Bruce is the man at Hawks Third gen, and would take his word over probably anyone as he has done maybe 3 times the swaps you have, look I didn't post those up to start an argument, those were opinions on what I have researched, and found from people who have done it.

Sure the V6 dash will work, but the tach will be way off since it's calibrated for a V6, not a V8, never heard of changing a 'chip' to fix the tach.

The 3.42 gears seem to be awful popular with people or they wouldn't be looking for them, I was telling him for some performance and gas milage that is a pretty good gear to have, plus why change it if it works and has decent pickup.

Sure the SLP headers will work, but geez....those are 400 bucks for a set...why fork out that much money when you can get the Hedman D-port headers for 180 and use the other cash for like subframes, strut tower etc etc to stiffen the car up.

The 700's in the earlier cars are all cable driven so that is a mute point, unless the guy wanted to go with an auto so the engine/tranny combo would be the best. The transmission in the 87-90 Camaro wasn't not electric speedo though, it was still a cable.

Yes I was wrong in stating the 94's were not sequential, the site I was getting that info had it marked down wrong, but the vented Opti is more preferred as it doesn't have as many problems as the non-vented one.

There's nothing wrong with OBDII, there are several kits out to convert from OBDII to OBDI and you can actually get even more control over the PCM than you can with the OBDI

MrDude_1

i wouldnt take his word on anything unless its in writing.. the man has a obvious lack of attention to detail.
i live in south carolina, so ive actually gone to his shop... lets just say, to get my **** straightened out, i had to do it myself after bugging the **** out of him.

if anyone cant get ahold of him, and needs to talk to him to get somthing worked out, PM me, and i'll be glad to give you his personal cell phone number... he always answers that.

the 90+ camaro dashes all have the same tach internals as far as the stepper motor goes... if you slide out the little circuit board card, you could slip in another one.
realisticly, noone does that.

heres a tip:
the LS1 gives a 4cyl tach pulse.
you NEED a converter box to run the tach anyway.
instead of doing x2 in the box to run the tach. do it 1.5.
poof.. your V6 cluster is now fully functional, and works just fine.

if you want to take it a step further, get a custom face made, and multiply it by a diffrent number to get a accurate tach that reads even higher.


3.42s were the base stock gearing for a 6spd. thats why 1000s of people have them
i have them in my 3rdgen... (i also have a 6spd)
they're popular because they made alot... people dont swap them in very often.
i have them only because i keep exploding 4.11s, and 3.73s.... and it SUCKS driving on 2.73 gears with the 6spd. (either one)

everything SLP makes sucks. lol. high on price, low on quality, and nonexistant on customer service.

doesnt matter.
the 700R4s just get the cable housing swapped for a speed sensor, and poof, instant VSS.

optis bolt and unbolt.
not to mention, for the price of one opti, i would go Daltec.. dont let some little disposable part like a opti decide what motor you get.. thats like saying i dont want a 87+ SBC because it has the small computer controlled distrib....


i personally like the 93 setup the best, but thats only because im cheap and like boost.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Friendly advice to all:

Let's keep the discussion tech-related and civil. Personal and mud-slinging don't cut it.

Got it?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

five7: i've kept it tech, and correct, please dont start jumping at the people who are posting the correct information and get tired of having to argue with someone who doesnt know what they're talking about wanting to post the wrong information.


Bruce can be the wannabe man all he wants, Hi im Tommy @ thirdgenparts.com im sure I did the swap long before he had even sold an LT1 pullout, i've done the swaps several times, and im sure i have more knowledge on the subject than he does. You can take his word all you want, however since it is wrong, please do not force it upon others around here and proclaim it is correct when it is not.

The transmission is the same for the thirdgen 700R4's, the vehicle speed sensor is easily swapped by removing one bolt, the housing is the same, however, since you dont know this, and cant grasp it from what i've already said, the thirdgen sending unit signal is nowhere close to what an LT1 uses, and it will take a good bit of effort to modify the signal, or work with that trans to get it to produce the correct signal. Which i've already said....

OH MY GOSH NOT $400 for a set of stainless steel headers, with 1.75" primaries, and a matching Y pipe. With ground clearance.

Run your $180 junk, after they wont clear a T56 if you get one, and you fabricate a Y pipe to fit them, adding to the cost, i'll still be sticking to the SLP's, some people just dont understand, or do enough research.

The chip in the tach is what calibrates it, as MrDude has confirmed, since we both typically know what we're talking about.

And 3.42's are popular because they work well with the T5 or an auto, until you've run a T56 with the different ratios, dont proclaim any gear set is optimal, or preferred.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Oh yeah you were also wrong about the driveshaft Klortho, the LT1 / T56 setup uses the same driveshaft as a 700R4/ T5 thirdgen.

Inwo

Haha, oh my, you mean he wanted to sell you something for money because he ASSURED you that what parts you have couldn't be easily adapted? Well. I never.

chomp

So I can use my same driveshaft (700R4 305TBI engine 92 camaro) with a T56 or 4L60E and an LT1?

I've been thinking about getting a carbon fiber or aluminum one but I want to make sure it will work with the stuff I swap. Do these free up a lot of HP?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Yes you are correct, it is going to be the same length, the only time you wont be able to use the factory driveshaft is with the earlier odd transmission cars, 200C iirc, T10, etc.