91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

hey hey fellas and gals, been a while since i have been on here and posted, but here is goes

i have an 86 Cutlass with a 71 350 olds(the so called "Rocket" with the 10 valve cover bolts), well i have smashed up the front end of the car and i have given up on the cutlass(2 accidents 1 week, $350 dollars in damage to other peoples cars not including mine and counting, you do the math), but my 88 Iroc has been sitting in the garage crying for well over a year now. I have sold the cutlass as a rolling chassis, an now i am stuck with a motor and 350 trans with a 3500 stall. i know the 240 hp rating back in the day, but this cutlass was running 13.00 with only slicks, but it is a built engine and trans(.030 over, cammed, intake, 750 carb, shift kit, whole 8 1/2 yards, just needed nitrous). i have read about the pros and cons, i dont want opinions(unless some one wants to buy the combo), i am looking for what problems i will have, such as

what about the torque arm? where do i hook it up?

headers? i have them in the cutlass but will they fit in the Maro?

or do i have to use stock exhaust manifolds?

what car can i get a drive shaft out of that will fit?

will i run into problems with the steering shaft or gear box?

trans cross member, do i use the one out of the cutlass or the Maro?

also can i just switch radiators or do i need to use the one from the Maro?

engine mounts, will they line up or do i need to switch them?

will i have any clearance problems with the firewall or fenders?

any other problems that may arise that i have not asked about or some one knows about?

Again thanks a mil guys!!

NOTE: i am also goin for that unique "look", cause i have never seen(yet) or heard of(yet) a 3rd gen with a olds motor.

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

and RB i beg you before you bend me over and plant one in me, bare with me on this, i know how you feel, you are very opinionated on this engine swap, but i am not looking for a one day project, cause i have about 2 months and patience to do this, and i might as well learn some hard cause i will eventually end up in the automotive field, and i have been threatened to have my Iroc redone into a 2 ton cube (couldnt live without my baby)

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

read my thread here in engine swap. I did this already in a 90 fbird. not difficult. I used manifolds.

Dare to be Different!!:rockon:

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

want sorta trouble will i run into exactly with the motor mounts and torque arm, i still have the engine in the Cutlass so i have all those parts

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Buy an adapter and run the Chevy trans. Motor mount Info is in my thread ; FYI buick and olds into 3rd gen. READ IT! I didn't have much trouble until the A/C hookup. had to pay for new custom lines. Use 77-79 firebird 403 engine mount shells that bolt to the block and then use your stock chevy lowers. Modify intake for Efi or look for cadillac seville/eldorado 76-79 with 350 olds mpfi intake. Rare, but I have found them. Use a 7-pin distributor for a 307 80-90.

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

i did read that post and so far thats the only good news i have gotten out of this swap, but would i be able to use the motor mounts out of the Cutlass(i have the tops and bottoms) or do i need to get the 403? and i am not going to worry about the AC i dont need it, and one more thing, i am going to leave the engine carbed, so do i need to get the intake or other distributor?

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

If you're going with a carb, you don't need anything else. Just pull the fuel pump fuse. Your engine mounted fuel pump can draw fuel out of the tank like the electric isn't even there. It worked on mine, anyway. One of the wires going to the coil on the chevy motor is the hot wire to use on the Olds Hei. You should use one of those distributors, 78-80 with vacuum advance and 4 pin Hei. Plug the fuel return line and make sure that the vent line is still hooked up. Some carb'ed olds engines use a return, If its on the pump hook it up. Use a throttle cable from an 82-85 carb V8 f-car. If you use cutlass mounts, you'll need to use upper and lowers. You'll need to drop in an olds block( I like to use an old 307 block for mock ups) already hooked to your tranny and bolt the tranny mount up. Then lower your block with mounts attatched (steel lowers from cutlass also bolted on) and mark the crossmember for the proper bolt holes. Odds are in your favor that you will drill 4 or 5 of the 6 holes needed. You may only have to slot some. For starters, run stock manifolds with the right side crossover connection plugged. Have the exhaust shop hook the Chevy pipes back up to your new manifolds. Later you'll want to make headers. Not too difficult. Use big tube style 1-3/4 primary tube shorty headers for a small block chevy and cut of the flange where it bolts to the engine. Then you need to make a flange for your car from a set of exhaust manifold gaskets out of 1/4 or 3/8 flat steel. Weld chevy headers to olds flange. Time consuming, but not difficult. Its a tight fit and you'll probably have to lift the engine to get 'em on. I didn't have any clearance problems with steering or A/C box, but my car use to be a V-6 and I don't know if its different or not. Hope this helps.

P.S. Its ALOT easier to change plugs on a BOP engine than a chevy so don't worry about that.

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

all i have to say is thanks so much, that makes me worry a little but less, and do you have any pic of the bird with the olds in it? just curious to see how it looks(like i have much of a choice whether it goes in or not). before i forget, the drive shaft, what will i need to do there? i have a drive shaft that was in the Maro with a 700R4 and i have the drive shaft from the Cutlass with the TH350, or do i need a totally different one. and when i go headers do i need the f body ones or any SBC headers? thanks again and i am sure i will be buggin you for more Q & A

ljnowell

Whatever you do, dont do this. Either use an AFPR and use the factory electric pump, or just drop the tank modify the pickup and use the mechanical on the block. As far as the torque arm,

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/me...y_Code=Teckpak

Check that out. You can use the factory driveshaft, torque arm, and speedo equipment with your th350. This kit actually makes the swap a direct bolt in.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

What's wrong with pulling the fuse and running? Not being sarcastic, but honestly wondering. I personally never had any negative effects. As for the driveshaft you should re-use the original. If you feel you must run a th350, then measure the trans length and start hunting recking yard core piles until you find one the right length. all you will need is the rear half, so its okay if the front of the trans is broken. You will have to take apart your trans completely to insert the proper length output shaft. Main Objective: keep the car in stock engineering configuration. Less headaches when trying to repair the car down the road. Headers are f-car specific so that they curve around the chassis properly. Still have to tweak some, though.

ljnowell

The reason is that you will not be able to adequately pull fuel through the pump. Some it will, most it wont. Dont go searching core piles. YOu need a 9 inch tail 350. But, if you read the link that I posted, you can make the switch without changing driveshafts, or using torque arm brackets, or measuring a damned thing.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I'm not a fan of 3 spd trannys, but that is a very cool setup!!GOOD FIND!!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

i thought i would up date on my end, i talked to a buddy of mine who has done this swap and he attached the torque arm bracket to the trans cross member and said it helped the car pull harder, and as for the motor mounts. he said that all i need to do is tack weld it in there and he will weld it in there the rest of the way and do the torque arm for me for cheap. he also said he got the headers to fit by moving the engine as far back in the compartment as possible, so i will play with the position to see what i get. but i thank you guys and will sooner or later start posting some pics of my progress and get some pics and info on how my buddy does the torque arm, but thanks again!!

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I love it when a plan comes together!!

THEGENERAL

i dont think welding the engine mounts in to the car is such a good idea man think about this if you break a mount on the frame side what are you going to do ?

pull the engine and cut out the old mount and weld a new one in??

id figure out the correct placement for them then drill and bolt them in or do as said above and get the clamshells from a 403 then bolt them to the factory chevy frame mounts like it should be

dont weld it in thats just a hack job

as for the torque arm mount there are brackets you can buy that mount it to the crossmember and not the transmission your buddy isnt doing anything that hasnt been done a million times already ....http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...30299&x=9&y=13

ljnowell

I still dont understand why you would want to do all the extra work on the driveshaft, torque arm, etc, when you dont have to.

THEGENERAL

yeah if you buy the kit ljnowell is talking about its alot easier to begin with

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

first, thegeneral, are you sure the kit bolts to the cross member instead of the trans?? thanks

second, well seeing as the family took the digicam for the weekend i couldnt take the first pics of the process, but basically i reinstalled the gas tank, bolted the rear end in and put the tires back on. i know it doesnt sound like a big deal but the car has sat for a year on jack stands and cinder blocks, so this was a big thing. if it wasnt raining i was going to try and clean under the hood, but i couldnt so i guess that will have to wait until tomorrow. but just keeping those following this event up to date. again thanks for the info so far(cause i am sure i will be back for more)

third, does anyone know how the american racing "centerline" rip offs would look on my car, i want to do all 4 corners and i am not sure how it would look.

thanks and keep rooting for me!!!

ljnowell

The kit that we are talking about doesnt bolt to anything but the trans. It comes with a 700r4 output shaft that you install into the th350. Then it has a spacer that goes on, and the 700r4 tailshaft bolts to that. This way you can use the stock driveshaft, torque arm mount, crossmember, and speedo equipment without worrying about it. Look up th350 swap, and you will find it posted with pictures.

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

thanks lj, but i might be putting a manual valve body 700r4 in there, but we will see what happens. but anywho, today was a couple hour job, i had to haul the Maro out of the garage by myself, cleaned the garage, rearranged the torn down motor and parts, and the swept up. as for the Maro, it got a half bath, couldnt roll up the windows so i couldnt wash the whole car, but i scrubbed under the hood where the muscle will be stored. it very well could be done this weekend cause my little vacation plans maybe scratched, but we will see!! keep ya posted!!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Goodluck w/the swap. I just LOVE BOP swaps into the thirdgens

It does seem that I had an easier time swapping in my Series II, but then it'sjust a Buick engine

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

i would love to have pics, but the digicam is taking pics of my brother graduating from the Air force boot camp, so in a sense duty calls!! but i will try to get somethign up here, probably when it is all done

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

before you lovingly remind me 85 Bird, i will have pics, but an update, the motor is about to be yanked from the Cutlass, had to take the union break. but heres what i ran into as for problems, for those who dare to try this in the future:

the motor mount bolts on the Camaro where rusted together, so out came the grinder, and that took the better part of a half hour or so, but they all came out and it is looking goooood!!

the other problem, i never worked on a G Body that has headers, that is a pain when i cant get at the starter until the motor is hoisted!!

but other than that it has been smooth, even the floor under 1/2 inch of oil and such(try as i might i didnt have enough buckets or drip pans so now i have a mess, but oh well!! as for pics i should have some up here tonite because the digicam returns!!!!

THEGENERAL

i know all about the union breaks ...LOL...those make the day all the much better ..LMAO


just remember with the oil run up and buy a fifty pound bag of oil dry or kitty litter ...LOL...but with kitty litter remember to keep the door to the garage closed other wise the kittys will come in and use it for a litter box (been there done that ) makes it kind of interesting when you come in the next morning and crawl under the car and find a little cat present for ya and you dont see it at first and reach for a wrench and well you get the picture..LOL...

any way hope to see some pics of the gutless cutlass and the camaro and engines man .....keep us posted...

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

ok,this is my third try to get pics up without freezing the computer or the server being stupid, but here goes nothing!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

heres the front view...look ma!! no hood!!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

here are my transplant victims(all i need is some lighting bolts in the back ground and an evil laugh like MUHHAHAHAHA!!!)

ps please dont look at the front end on the Cutlass, stupid Ford did that!!!

or you can say it is snarling!! Grrrr!!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

heres the beautiful shifter
yes it is on an angle, it felt more confortable that way, and since it is a Z-Gate shifter i get a firmer shift going out and away from my sexy body....look at me i'm dead sexy!!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

this is a pic of my bad a$$ power plant, look, drool and be AMAZED!!!

ps yes i know it needs paint, no making fun of or complaining!! this means you!! yeah you!!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

but i now need to get the engine level, and then get the trans bolted in, then the drive shaft::deep breath:: and the shifter cable hooked up, and the fuel lines, and the fans, and then the swtiches for the fans and fuel pump...and so on and so forth, but it is worth it so far, and its fun and educational!! but i will keep this updated till it is done, and have more pics and such other goodies for those following the rebirth of an Iroc. but let me know what ya'll be thunking about this here project!!

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

It makes my heart sing when I see an oil fill tube sticking out of the engine bay on an f-car..............

If you want to improve your piston ring seal, put a breather style cap on your oil fill tube and a pcv in BOTH valve covers. Hook 'em both to the intake, one in front of carb and one behind. Trust me, it works on every olds motor I build except all out competition. Then you use the exhaust hookup crankcase evacuation system.....

Good Luck puttin' it on the road!!

P.S. are you gonna part out the cutlass?

THEGENERAL

looking good so far man let us know how it goes....

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

as for the Cutlass, no it was sold before the motor was out, and will the PCV mess up with a bored block and bigger cam? and what is the stroke on an Olds so i can figure out compression, cause i have 175 pounds per cylinder. but the exhaust hookup blahblah, is that the technical term for the EGR valve? and how do i go about hooking it up?? thanks again those who hail under the banner of Buick, Pontiac, and Olds(motors)!!!

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

First, forget the egr, you're way out of smog regs by putting an older engine into a newer car. Leave it blocked off as in the photo. The crankcase evacuation system hooks smog style check valves between the valve covers and the headers with venturi style jets in the header collectors. When the rpms come up the flow of exhaust past the jets literally sucks the vapors and air from the crankcase and pulls a vacuum in the oil pan. That causes the rings to pull out hard against the cylinder wall and increase efficiency. I only use it on race cars and jet boats because it only really works at higher rpms. You can run the dual pcv no matter what.

Stroke on olds small block 260/307/330/350/403 = 3.385 in

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

p.s. try using slightly modified 78 trans am radiator hoses for 403(olds) engine. I think it was v.i.n. code K.

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

as for the radiator hose, the originals worked fine, with a little bit of cutting, but they are in there and all i need to do is fabricate a belt shroud for the alternator belt, just incase it snaps. as for the pvc thingy, that will be the first line of business after i get the engine mounted and running, and then i will do a new shifter plate out of sheet metal and out my switches on it and mount the nessecary gauges. BTW, can i use the Tach in the Maro and rewire it, or do i need to wire a new one? and does any one know the colors on the fuel pump so i can run a switch on that too?? as i always say, the more switches the better, cause if they go to steal it, it ain't going to far!!(actually i just made that up )

yes there will be pics of the shifter plate, might as well show the next Genner that might try this one!!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

and one more before i forget, what clearence problems will there be with the hood, i am in the midists of mounting a cowl to a 91 hood, but will i have trouble with the oil filler neck, or the carb or anything like that??

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I used a stock flat hood on my 90 firebird with no problems, but I used 77 403 trans am mounts, yours may be a little higher. Your tach wire should be fine. I had to change my tach from v6 to v8 but used the same wiring. I also used a throttle cable from an 85 firebird with a quadrajet( my olds had a quadrajet also, so it was perfect.) I used the cable bracket from a late model cutlass with a 307 olds so that I could hook up the TV cable from the trans.

eric17422001

Cool! Looks good- glad to see you are making something happen and not just posting about it like I do all the time!

I think the reason people get discouraged from doing B-O-P swaps here is they think the engine out of uncle Lester's '81 Recency is going to bolt right in and run 12's.

In your case you had a strong running Olds and the time, tools and skills to do the job

Will the "Dead Sexy" Z-gate go in the Camaro console neatly?

Eric in Savannah

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

as for my "dead sexy" shifter it went in fine, but like i said i set it at an angle so i need to make a new plate/cover for where it sits, but that is fine because i need to mount switches(2 fan, and one fuel, and then nitrous when i get around to that). but i plan on measuring it out and using sheet metal, but i will post pics of that really soon cause it is in the process!! as for the cable, the stock one seems to work fine, i just had to move the excess out of the way, but i will fiddle with it some more just to make sure. but as always, there is more to come!!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

decided a different approach to my switches, since i dont smoke i used the cigarette lighter area and cut a piece of sheet metal, i will eventually get around to trying to mount a stock boarder from the plastic piece that went there, but i dont want to tear up the original piece, so it is off to the junkyard soon, but heres the pic!!

also the oil pressure gauge is mounted right below it!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

yes i am still alive and the project has moved ahead slowly, but here with an update. I had a ton of trouble with the trans cross member, torq arm etc, so i asked around until i was given a used 700r4 out of a caprice police car with converter for free(that is my favorite price ) but i am only sitting and waiting for my engine/trans adapter plate to come in the mail, but all the parts are ready and waiting. but i had to put the stock shift back in so i don't have all the nifty shifter and plate design i made, oh well. but for shirts and giggles i might be going to Union Grove drag way this saturday with it is it is all done, just ot see what it can do, but i am currently in the process of trying to fit a hood, otherwise it is time i put the cowl hood together i started on a long time ago. but keep checking back i should be posting some burn out pics sooner than i even think!!

THEGENERAL

well anytime you do a swap like this there is gonna be problems some unforseen others just hide and jump out and slap you in the face..LOL

sounds like your getting it squared away thou....post some pics of it when you can...

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I was beginning to worry.......

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

well the olds motor and 700 are lovingly together(and now my girlfriend is mad cause i was not feeling to good and went and worked on the car - oh well). but they are in the car and now i cant get the trans bushing to meet over the crossmember correctly, that and 2 of my crossmember bolts are all stripped out from the shop that rebuilt the original trans cause i havent touched the car. but maybe tomorrow or by sat it will be done!! more pics to come!!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

ITS ALIVE!!!! I had it out for a bit last night to make sure everything works. it took so long cause i had to wait to be paid to get a driveshaft cut(cause it was an inch shorter for some reason), and all the coolant and trans fluid. its funny cause i was used to doing 55 mph at almost 3k rpm in the cutlass but it cruises really nice at 1800 on the e-way. but i have some more small things to do(ehem...like a hood, putting all the kick panels in) but i am happy it moved cause that car hasnt seen the light of day(or pavement) for almost a 1 and a half. but there will be more pics when i get the camera back from the shop, cause if it aint the cars working its the other eletronics that have nothing to do with it

BTW the thing is wicked fast with solid motor mounts!! and loud too!!

eric17422001

Cool. Sure is nice having that overdrive now isn't it.

Now you need to get some paint on that front end!

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

hey i happen to like the extreme broke down sleeper look!! i call it the SS for super sleepy, but the body will be prepped and all ready for paint soon, but it looks as if i will be driving the car this winter so i will need to atleast prime the car before it snows, but oh well it will be done, but i hope to get some more pics or footage or the coche soon, keep looking back!!

Spectre

You wouldnt have a sound file or movie clip ? !

91CamaroRS305

iTrader: (2)

well i can't win, the trans i thought was seated right and it wasnt so i blew out the pump seal, thankfully that was all, but i am in the midst of fixing it so i should have it done today some time this evening. so i need to space the converter cause that was the prob it was barely on and it took the edges of the pump ears but it will run again.

but on a side note, i took the trans that was in the car that i had rebuilt and blew out and took that apart and it was burnt, all the seals, bands, steels, and the big 2nd gear band which was a upgraded kevlar band, i thought it was funny cause i barely put 8000 miles on the thing, but i learned that i have to be a bit more gentle

but soon i will have the finish product and then the pics of the slow process of body work, but stay tuned!!