Meckel

What IYO is the fastest yet reliable way of getting a brand new base 350 TPI with full koni racing suspension, 3.73's, torque converter, K&Ns, Modified MAF, into a 12 second 1/4 mile?
Without NOS or a Blower.
Im thinking a 383 stroker kit would be the best but if there's a more reliable way lemme know.
(Reliable meaning I can use the car without worrying about it Fording out on me)

pasky

Definatley get a better bang for the buck with a 383. Might want to look into getting a different intake.

THEGENERAL

yeah id go with a 383 stroker motor run a good intake might even look into some steeper gears imo.. what size cam are you looking at ...and your gonna need a good compression ratio and good breathing heads to help you on your way ...and a very good free flowing exhaust

br()bert

Well its not a 3rd gen its a 2nd and its not tpi but the guy around the corner from me has a 79 camaro with a 350, stock bottom end, headders with 3 inch pipe and flowmasters. edelbrock rpm intake, holley 750. dropped some aluminum heads on( i forget the specs on them) and goes 12.40-12.60 all the time.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

I think heads and cam selection are more important than the induction set up, but I'm not very familiar with the way TPI works, so don't listen to me.

pasky

TPI falls on its face up top.

KBeez

and don't forget that thirdgen's are quite a bit lighter at that

jocww

headers screw 383 way over rated go 406 or bigger also id get some alumium heads nice cam 456 gears and that would do it. or you could turbo it

cali92RS

Spoken like some with TBI ( i am on the same slow boat).
Induction IS important though. If you get a miniram, a healthy cam and heads with a powerband above 6000 rpms AND chip tuning, youll be into the 12's.
But there are people in here that run the superram/ lpe 219 cam combo with AFR's that run in the 12's. The key to that combo are heads w/ good flowing exhaust because of the single pattern cam. AND OF COURSE, chip tuning.

ME Leigh

You can't get anywhere close to 12's with TPI.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

Ditch the TPI, get a set of vortec heads and the XE274 camshaft and you will be there.

There are plenty of people on here with streetable vortec headed 350's running in the 12's and 11's all motor.

pasky

He won't get that many miles out of a 406.

88IROC350TPI

There ya go. Some guys on here seem to think 12's are hard and expensive to get to but I guess they just like spending money on building fancy 383's with aluminum heads

Sure I bet everyone on here has an idea in there head as to how to get to 12's but take it from people who are actually there - for cheap! The right set of factory GM heads like Vortecs a VERY mild cam like the XE274, RPM Intake, 750 Carb, 3.73-4.10 gears, 3000-3500RPM stall, good exhaust, and some basic knowledge of tuning a car. Bam mid/low 12's without much trouble. No expensive EFI, no new motor, no $1000+ heads.
-

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

Word

MrDude_1

in responce to the last two replys:

fo shizzle.


good heads + decient cam on a properly running 350 with a reasonable drivetrain = 12 seconds.


you already seem to have the drivetrain, so just put the heads/cam/intake on there and go run 12s.

pasky

I don't see how a 383 is so expensive, if you already have the block your looking at about 1500 in work including porting the stock heads. Just gotta look for the deals. But yea a 350 will get ya there, but if you got a high mile 350, why not just bore it over and rebuild it into something capable of even faster times.

cali92RS

I agree with what you say except about the aluminum heads. You can get some trickflow aluminum heads for not that much. Aluminum heads are cool for weight savings and you can run higher compression on pump gas without detonation.

MrDude_1

but the fact still remains.

you just spent 1500... you still have ****ty stock heads, and thats limiting your power output.

thats why you end up with a car that goes slow.

thats one way to save money... if you know what you're doing. lil chancy sometimes, but if you have the base knowlage, its a good way to save... not somthing for the total noob to do, but once you know what you're looking for, at, what a good price is, and how to inspect them, then go ahead and save some cash.


because.... its still a good 350. run it some more.. and get the parts that MAKE power.. like the heads and cam... possibly the induction if you have a stock setup (stock TPI, TBI, CCC, they all suck stock.)
if you build for power, and not cool, you go fast.

if you can find a deal go for it... but you can get a PAIR of assembled vortecs for $250... thats REALLY hard to beat. even when you add the cost of a new intake.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

You can pick up a set of vortec heads for around $400. A set of trick flow 23* heads run more than twice that, and out of the box flow #'s on them arent that great (i have seen two sets flowed in person).

I run 10:1 with my vortecs on pump gas with no detonation.

MrDude_1

btw in responce to my post above.... i quoted used vortecs since we were talking about used alum heads....

unknown_host is reffering to the still very low price of NEW ones.

just so i dont confuse anyone.

88IROC350TPI

The question was "What IYO is the fastest yet reliable way of getting a brand new base 350 TPI with full koni racing suspension, 3.73's, torque converter, K&Ns, Modified MAF, into a 12 second 1/4 mile?" Being that is "brand new" why pull it back out of the car (if installed) and build a 383?

Here you go, exactly what you need to run 12's, its been proven time and time again:

-Your current 350 shortblock
-Vortec heads (used) with good springs.
-Edelbrock RPM Vortec intake
-Holley 750cfm 4150 carb
-Any aftermarket HEI distributor or rebuild stocker with good parts.
-Comp Cams XE274 Cam (if you have a roller block, there are other choices that'll work just as well)
-The best torque converter you can afford. If you have a stock 700R4 expect it to fail soon. You'll need atleast a 3000RPM stall for best performance
-1 5/8" headers with good exhaust, I'd put duals on it but single 3" will work. 1 3/4" headers wouldnt hurt.
-26" tall slicks or drag radials


If those easy, non-expensive, very streetable and reliable, mods dont get you 12.6 or better you did something majorly wrong.

pasky

Actually, you'd be surprised what some porting can do to the stock heads, can usually get them to flow over 30cfm more than some aftermarket heads. I included the porting costs in the price and like I said if its a high milage 350, it might be a good idea to bore it over anywasy.

This is what I plan on doing when my lt1 craps out which hopefully will be at least 5 years away. I already know what parts to grab including the cam, rockers, rods and timing set. I'll end up spending about 2,200 for everything and end up with about 440rwhp with the 383. Just saying thats what I would do. You can build a very stable 383 using forged parts for 1,100. About the price of the intake.

Meckel

All these responses are aweosme. I didn't realize it was that eas yot get into the 12's with a 350. You guys all made my day.
Thanks,
Eric.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

To tell you the truth, the 3.73 gears, a decent 3-3500 stall convertor, some sticky tires and alot of track time will get you close to the 12's. Do the simple mods, like the tb bypass, porting the plenum, runners and base, and do headers and exhaust and you should get there.

ME Leigh

What? Those mods won't even break you out of the 14's.

Meckel

I'm gonna wait till the warranty is up at 36,000 but you think a mild cam, vortec heads, and maybe a SuperRam top end would work really well?
Oh and also keep it cali smog legal=[?

cali92RS

Yeah, but be advised that the vortec heads require a special intake which does not bolt directly onto a super ram. You also have to plumb your headers to your EGR

Riley's35089rs+

Care to expand on that statement?

MrDude_1

ive been ignoring it too.

its not even worth asking him to explain... heh..

cali92RS

Give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he means miles per gallon

25THRSS

It doesn't take much to get an L98 into the 13's, and I would expect a combo like that to be pretty close to 12's.

Riley's35089rs+

br()bert

uhm, call me a dope but wouldnt putting a 3-3500 in with a basically stock everything else be kinda ,, a no no?

CamaroRS385hp

so about how much $$ would that all cost? just for parts, not labor

25THRSS

nope, not when that stock car makes it's max torque right in that area. With tires you're gonna get a sick launch.

br()bert

oh, ok thanks for the answer.

jocww

yea pasky how would he not get alot of miles on it. maybe if he overreves it everyday

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

$.02 There is too much mis-information on this board to make any sense out of these posts. Unless you've attempted to or done it, how would you know?

Combos to hit 14's, 13's, 12's should be sticky's somewhere so people don't keep asking the same questions.

88IROC350TPI

:werd: Just like I said... everyone knows in their head how to run fast times but few actually implement their idea. Anything sounds fast on paper.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

My car runs 12's and 11's with a vortec headed 350, that is why I supplied information.

br()bert

YUP,. I posted this long ago.

MrDude_1

my previous 3rdgen got into the 11s N/A
ive helped others build solid 12 second cars
and ive helped worked on a number of fast cars, including some single digit ones.

the trick to going fast is...... use going fast parts.

dont start substuting parts and expect the same result..... (examples: oooh, i dont want to run a single plane, so i'll run this dual plane manifold... ooh, i dont want a primitive carb, i want to keep my EFI but learn nothing about tuning it.... oooh, i dont want a big cam, that might make it unstreetable... ooh i dont want longtubes, but i want 400+hp at the wheels..... )


i see too often here, people buy gimmick parts that give minimal results for the money, then wonder why they dont go fast and they spent all this money. knowledge and experience are key to going fast... it just doesnt happen... but you can get ahead of the curve if you just listen to thoes that are fast and DOING IT and stop reading what everyone types online..

eric m 91 rs

ME Leigh look at mike crews....im not sure if he has changed his combo or not but there was a hella long thread about his car wich was a VERY LOW 12 second car. he was running a 383 w/ ported vortecs, i think he might of been running the comp274 cam, and mildly ported tpi. he also had an *** load of suspension work done. i believe he dynoed something like 370 lb ft and 295 hp at the wheels and was running like 12.1's or something like that. so that just goes to show 12's can be hit with tpi.

eric m 91 rs

heres the specs of mike crews car

89 IROC, 383, stock block, cast eagle crank, stock rods, Speed Pro coated hyper pistons 10:1, Vortec heads (TPIS springs, Manley valves, screw in studs, pocket ported), CC XR269HR cam, SDPC Vortec TPI intake, 24# injectors, AS&M SS LTRs, ported plenum, 58 mmTB, cold air intake, SLP 1 3/4" headers, SLP exhaust, 700R4, 2600 stall Vigilante, LPE driveshaft, stock 3.27 BW 9 bolt, full Spohn suspension.
Track #s: 1.66 60' time, 7.86 1/8 mile @ 86.17 mph, 12.392 1/4 mile @ 108.50 mph
(Dynojet) Dyno #s: 302 rwhp & 424 rwtq (SAE/corrected)

MrDude_1

yea but if you take out this stuff:

383 (cast eagle crank Speed Pro coated hyper pistons, + machinework.)
SDPC Vortec TPI intake
24# injectors
AS&M SS LTRs
58 mmTB
cold air intake

and add in this stuff:

MrGasket drop base air cleaner assembly
Carb
FPR
fuel gauge
intake manifold.


he would have gotten thoes same results much cheaper.



but im not turning this into a TPI vs Carb debate... i just wanted to point out that you guys could only name ONE person...(athough i think Traxon is another) and that the people who get there tweek and know exactly what they're doing.

the far majority of people never get a long runner setup into the 12s.

meanwhile, any idiot (no offence to anyone) can slap the carb on there, and with minimal tweeking, get the vortec headded motor into the 12s. cheap. thats why i reccomend it to a beginner.


and if you think mike or anyone else got their motor that fast by just slapping parts on.. then your wrong... im sure his runners and everything was ported and tweeked to the best of his abilitys.

eric m 91 rs

mr dude

i dont doubt it at all i just merely posted the info about mike's car to show me leigh that it is deffinitly do-able in response to his "you cant come close to 12's with tpi"

CamaroRS385hp

so how much would this list of parts cost:

"Vortec heads (used) with good springs.
-Edelbrock RPM Vortec intake
-Holley 750cfm 4150 carb
-Any aftermarket HEI distributor or rebuild stocker with good parts.
-Comp Cams XE274 Cam (if you have a roller block, there are other choices that'll work just as well)
-The best torque converter you can afford. If you have a stock 700R4 expect it to fail soon. You'll need atleast a 3000RPM stall for best performance "

88IROC350TPI

If you do a lot of searching around and get the parts used you could buy all those parts for less than $1000

Heads: $300 used, $200 max for new springs and machine work
4150 carb: $400
RPM Intake: $160
Aftermarket HEI: $130 (or more depending on brand)
Cam & Lifters: $180
Decent converter: $400 for a decent one like Torco's 9.5" or BTE's. Of course a $800 ATI converter wouldnt hurt
Misc parts (gaskets, bolts, etc): $100-$150 depending on what you need.

Could be a lot cheaper if you get some of those parts used.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

And so the air foil was born...

cali92RS

I think you may have opened up a whole can of worms (even though i agree with you).