Meckel

Ok, so if i've got some time and some more money to spend heres my next question.
Would it be better performance wise to go with a carb over any efi out there (Miniram, superram,ported TPI etc.)
I'f I went with the XE274 camshaft, new alum vortec heads, (Enter answer to carb efi debate here) what header/exhaust combo would be the best?
I'm assuming 3' exhaust is mandatory but lemme know if im wrong.

MrDude_1

let me break it down logicly.

what is EFI?

EFI is electronic fuel injection... i know, duh, but hang with me on this.

why do cars have EFI?
for greater, more accurate control of the fuel mixture. the computer can be programmed to deliver fuel in any amount at any time that you can imagine.


so what the REAL question is: Do i need fuel control as accurate as EFI?

ignoring emissions and inspections it usually breaks down quickly.
why would you need that much fuel control?
you are running boost or some motor that requires total fuel control.
you are tuning it yourself and will spend the time and money to tweek it to take advantage of EFI


if you are NOT burning your own chips, and you DONT care about such "nice things" like Hwy mode, then you can skip EFI all together.
people have run carbs since the late 1800s. its not like they suck to drive... if i never told you it had a carb, you probly could never tell.


the short answer to what you said is,
you can do it with EFI or carb. the choice is yours.. carb is far cheaper..
as far as i know, the only EFI base for vortec heads is for the SD one.. and as a search on here shows, you have to be well into this and tweek on the car to get it to run 12s with a long runner setup... inotherwords, you'll be porting the intake, new runners, tuning equipment, ect... the tuning stuff being a investment, but the rest is a waste if your only goal is to go fast and have fun. the fun factor is never eliminated by a carb. and unless you're burning your own proms, the fast factor is enhanced.


as far as the "best" exhaust...... well, its like every other best in the automotive world.
there is no best.
there never is a best.
too many variables.

some people believe that shorty headers are best because of ground clearance issues.... in my opinion, i think the headman shortys with their Y pipe is the best set of shortys out there. but like all bests... its a opinion, and im sure someone will bring up the SLPs..... athough i think most of us can agree the flowtechs are crap.

for longtubes, the hedmans seem to tuck up better, but frankly, i think its a lost cause... if you need longtubes, go with the hookers.. traxon (or however you spell his name) made a wonderful tech artical on installing them... if you cant figure it out from that thread, you arnt ready to work on cars.. has to be the most complete install thread on this board.. lol.

3" is the min i would use on a single exhaust setup.

CamaroRS385hp

what do you think a shop would charge to install a cam and lifters, as well as installing a torque converter?

the other parts (heads, carb, intake, distributor) i could probably do myself with a little instruction, but i'd be lost on cam/lifters/converter.

don't you actually have to pull the engine a few inches to install a new cam? i think i've heard you either have to lift it a few inches, or it's possible to barely swap cams with the motor still in (space issues)

25THRSS

just pull the radiator and you should have plenty of room to swap cams.

Riley's35089rs+

The torque converter is as easy or easier than swapping heads

ljnowell

torque converter does suck a little bit, cause you got to drop the trans, but it could be worse. Its an easy day job, assuming you have everything you need and nothing goes wrong.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

12's on a 350 with TPI is definately possible.

Good suspension and drag radials would be great and make a fun street car.
Its new engine right? so hopefully has compression ration of at least 9 to 1 or alittle higher is ideal. especially for aluminum heads. Better off with 10 to 1 or higher with aluminums to make good power and fight of detonation. But should be fine.

Good heads like trick flows, AFR 190-195's, or even pro toplines. Vortecs ported out work good too. Super ram is your best bet for TPI. It is smog legal and so are the AFR / Trick flow heads. It is expensive but well worth it for the money. You get what you pay for.

Good torque converter ~2800-3000 stall, and shift kit and 3.73's would be good too, but 3.27s good for gas mileage. ( If you have 9-bolt?). make sure tranny can handle the power too especially with drag radials. Same goes for rear although 9-bolts are fairly strong.

comp cams roller cam with 210/220 or LPE 219 are good cams.
Or custom grind for same price from comp with around 214 to 218 would be sweet too. Heard good things about LT4 hot cam too but with super ram and 219 cam, you will have solid 12's. Many vette guys run this and hit low mid 12's so high 12's with third gen is possible.

Free flowing exhaust and good chip tuning. Heard good things about ED at Fast chip. He's done enough combos similar to these ideas to probably get it running good the first time. You will have a solid running reliable smog legal daily driver.

SweetRide45

iTrader: (2)

Orr89RocZ: I thought Super Ram wouldn't fit on SDPC Vortec Baseplate for Vortec heads??

If it fits, then I'm all for it. I'm lookin' at the SDPC TPI Crate engine, and if Super Ram will work, sounds like a good deal to me

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I heard that it might. I mean it would make sense right? It is base tpi but bolt holes/pattern to fit vortec style heads. Aftermarket runners fit it just as any other base. It may take some work, but I haven't done it so who knows? It would be sweet tho

cali92RS

Look up previous posts by ominous, he did it but it took a ton of work.

I dont know why u want to put yourself through the trouble. Vortecs are not the end all to heads. I know, what everyone is going to say, bang for buck.
AFR, protopline, brodix, canfield, trickflow all make heads that have standard intake ports. People even have 12 sec cars with aluminum L-98 heads. No special intake required.

vampiroc

if your car already came equipped with TPI going to a carb is not cheaper and you are getting rid of a perfectly good and serviceable system. You don't need to burn your own chips to make good use of EFI. To get a proper tune you always need to go to a dyno anyways, the only difference is with EFI instead of using a wrench you're using a laptop. moates adapters are only like $40 and a competent tuner isn't as expensive as you think. You can always go with a pcmforless chip if you don't have dyno access. I'm pretty happy with their chips and they are reasonable priced. If you've already got it, why get rid of it? All he needs is a TPI baseplate to go with those vortec heads, he can reuse his stock runners, TB, and plenum. Even his stock injectors if they are 22 lb ones and go 12s with the right cam, exhaust, suspension, tires, and a good converter, stuff you'll need to go 12s with a carb'd motor as well. A decent brand new carb (like a holley double pumper, not some quadrajunk copy) is around $300 minimum, regulator (for use with the EFI pump should you decide to keep it) is around $70; if you decide to to go with a new block side pump it's more like $110, vortec intake for a carb is around $150, linkage brackets are around $20, non-CC distributor is around $50 for a used HEI one, and miscellaneous required parts come out to another $40. You can't tell me that is cheaper than a $350 baseplate, $150 chip from PCM for less, and $60 adjustable pressure regulator (should you feel the 22 lb stock 350 injectors are insufficient). If you need to port the plenum and runners you can do it yourself, it's not hard, it's all aluminum. if he wasn't going with vortec heads, I'd recommend he get a $450 stealth ram with rails and he'd be fine with that. there are 9 and 10 sec cars running that intake. also with a carb, there is no computer to set parameters for you tune, you need to dyno tune it to get real results unless you've been doing it for years.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I dont think he's going 12s any time soon with TPI.

Perhaps a converted singleplane intake for Vortec heads. ?

-- Joe

flyboy367

wow you guys need to get on the efi bandwagon. even though my car i just sold was a 6cyl, hows 12.7 with 20mpg on multiport efi?

my buddy has a 88 camaro. i belive this is his total setup i will hwve to double check.

350 4bolt
283 crank with 350 rods/pistons
350 heads pocket ported with 202/194 valves
1.6 full roller rockers.
im not sure what cam but fully street.
tpi system
ported manifold, siamesed runners
50lb injectors
52mm throttlebody
headers
pcm tuned
turbo400 trans with shift kit.
373 eaton posi rear.
12.6 on drag radials
whole cost of mods $2000
most parts at swapmeet, freinds with a machinest.

its way doable. there is thinking involved and that turns most away. frankly the only way ill ever go back to a carb is if my brothers neighbor sells me his 68 rs camaro convertable. original owner. never been modded or raced.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

just interested in the post.

panther

me too

I currently in the process of building a 355 to go into my Iroc in the spring. I would absolutely LOVE to get 12.9999999 while retaining EFI. I bought the IROC with the stock 350 because it was not carbed and I would rather not convert it to a carb. With a little luck maybe I will be able to reach 12.9999999 after the engine swap and suspension work.

Wootah

i donno if the guy misread but he was saying "im buying alum vortec heads" you do know normal vortec heads you buy from GM are cast right?? the aluminum ones are about 2x more then the cast ones.. that would make alot of money to use and buy a better set fo aftrmrkt heads..

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yes, please doublecheck. Because as stated, this is complete

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i am with above, doesnt add up. 50lb injectors for 12.7? hummm....

TPI on destroked 350 will not get high 12's, especially on 2000 bucks of mods. You got to dump that in upgraded TPI and heads to get those times, not to mention the rest of suspension, tranny, list goes on... LOL

TPI-Formula350-

I have a setup like the one you called on and i'm running 13.21@104.6 it's not 12's but its a stock head/cam 350,just external engine boltons.......

Rabbitt

Got my 750cfm VS 4150 carb for $220 from Motorville.. Brand spankin new, and i love it.. did drop my mileage a sh|tload tho, but i mean, 625cfm crappy Carter* to a new 750cfm Holley... yah, thats gonna use some gas!




*crappy as in needed a rebuilt bad and was abused when i bought the car

Rabbitt

w00t! That be a 302! Who is this guy? he on the boards? i always wanted to see a 302 on a thirdgen! and at 12.6, thats definately nice! How streetable is it?

EDIT: Damnit.. i hope its not .. I have seen a 69 Z28 pull 12.16 in the ¼mile. Not stock, but still streetable :rockon:

Rick King

just a thought!!



there has been some fingerpointing WEll just remember flow = power. a great set of heads (Vortecs) for factory are decient you can get 241 cfm of intake flow at .500 lift I personaly would get a pair that flow in that level and a different cam, 50lb injectors, headers with dual exaust-no cats. put in a bigger fuel pump(capasity wise). just my 2 cents
later and
GB

rick