Nitrovamp

thank *** this is an edelbrock crate engine then! -Colt

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

weel the engine is sitting at mah dad's girlfriend's house( its hers.. but she gave it to me) and its sitting in a 84 or so Monte Carlo SS with a Turbo 400 behind it... i plan on trying to start it b4 i even remove it...in car experimenting...

Nitrovamp

wonderful!!! I want video man, seriously, when that puppy blows I wanna see! lmao I'll put it in a video. And by the way, why did she just give the car to you? doesn't run? Whats the story -Colt

Rabbitt

- Bull****
My friends Grandpa had a 1968 Chevelle that came factory with a 307 w/ a 4BBL. He swapped that out for a 454 and my g/f put that into her 87 camaro. It had some *****, too. A lot more than the 305's around here.

RB83L69

Bull droppings yourself. There was no such thing. No 68 Chevelle came with a 307, and no 307 ever came with a 4-barrel. However, alot of them did come with 327 4-barrels. The 307 was introduced in 69.

No "features from the future" were ever made into any cars.

I don't have to ask my grandfather to get the facts, or even my friend's; I was there.

Nitrovamp

Although, one would have to reveiw the possabilities involved in the situation. 3 come to mind. 1- it could have been a 69 with swapped mani and carb, 2- it could be a 68', with a 69 swapped mani and carb. Or it could an early 305? But were there any early 305's? -Colt

RB83L69

Yup, could easily have been one of the other 2 possibilites; but most likely not the 3rd, as 305s didn't come out until many years later. On the other hand, the easiest way to explain what he posted, is for him to simply be wrong about one digit in the engine size. Much more likely than anybody actually doing any work and swapping any sort of parts. I like to always keep in mind the following pearl of wisdom:

"The simplest explanation that fits all the facts is usually the right one."
-Occam, ancient Greek philosopher, from back when they thought the biggest a small block could ever possibly be, was 265 CID

But that's probably just because I'm so ancient myself.

Nitrovamp

Lmao! and now we have 400's lol.

ljnowell

I dont know, i agree that the 68 didnt come with it from the factory, but there were some 307's that came from the factory with a 4 barrel. I used to have one that would scream. I thik the big thing with a 307 is the same as a 305. On a whole, stock, they are weak. But there are some that run good, and a handful that people have made run real good.

RB83L69

No Chevy 307 ever came from the factory with a 4-barrel. Period. Case closed. Didn't happen. It was a 2-barrel motor only.

Yes it is somewhat similar to the 305, in that it was the small-bore long-stroke combo of its day. However its bore is larger and its stroke is shorter than the 305, so it's not quite as crippled. You still can put halfway decent heads on one. And therefore, much like the 305, it can be made to run OK; although, for the same amount of money and effort, a 327 or 350, or even a 302, will run much better.

ljnowell

Ah, and there is the catch. The 307 that I was referring to came in an 82 oldsmobile. So no, it wasnt a chevy 307, but it was a 307 with a 4 barrel. I guess its just a matter of preference though. I could see if someone had a #'s matching car with original everything, would rather build the 307 up as opposed to putting in something else. I dont know.

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

ack i started it and yup never run after break in... it ran fine but its gunna be too much work for such lil gain (10hp over mine)..... oh well

Nitrovamp

hmm, If I was in your area, I'd offer to buy it from. I don't even wanna know what it would cost to ship! -Colt

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'll have to beg to differ with you there. It was introduced in 1968.

Likewise. In fact, I got my first ticket in a 1968 Impala, 4-door, 307, Powerglide, power steering, AM radio, cloth seats - no other options. And, it had a 2bbl.

I later had a 1973 Nova, 4-door, 307, TH350, power steering, power brakes, AM radio, cloth seats - no other options. And, it had a 2bbl.

Still a much better engine than the Olds 307, even with a 4bbl.

ljnowell

I guess its ok to disagree, I've only had one 307, but it ran a whole lot better than any chevy 307 ive ever seen.

RB83L69

Too bad five7.... my 68 Impala had a 327 4-barrel!!!! I kind of liked the car, and I thought I got an OK deal on it; the carb was farkled, so I paid $25 for it and fixed it in the PO's front yard and drove it off. That was in about 75 or 76 or thereabouts.

Nitrovamp

This is getting to be a really long post. I like that. Always shows that there are good people out there, or here in particular. And I always loved, enjoyed and utterly endulged in those situations where there is a nice car to be had for way way cheap, but has "problems" and you go and buy the car, ask to do a bit of work the guys yard, swap a dis. cap, or some plugs or even a fuel pump, and drive her off like the day she was built with the guys jaw at the floor! Thats the kinda stories that you tell your grand kids abouts. I'm about to do it with a MINT************* 1970 ford t-bird fast back with LOW miles and a high output 429. this women I know lives alone, was her fathers car, he croaked, she inherited his show car, drove for a while, and then she "overheated one day" and the car was parked ever since. you see, when you have a "show car", that is never driven, or at least not for 17 years, the gaskets tend to, "corrode", in this case,at the water pump. and I, preying helplessly on the unknowing, saw an "opportunity". (this was about 2 months ago and I have an "informant" over in spokane keeping tabs for me) I took a look under the hood, ***clean clean clean clean clean!**** and discovered the gasket according to what she told me, and I quot, "holy ****. you cracked the block at the water pump. this engine's toast. I figured it would be somethin small. well, I'll have to get back to you on it." I know, I know, sneaky, dihonest, yada yada, but 24k mile 70' birds with high output 429's don't come around everyday, and especially not in manual form! (4 speed). so, I had my freind j.p. inquire her about it to see what she'd say to him posing to be interested. she says, 900 bucks!!!! and she tells him, "I had a mechanic look at it, he said the block was cracked, j.p. did the same thing I did, to "confirm it". OMG!!! I feel kinda bad here, but this chics got big bucks anyhow. so, I'm sorry for not mentioning this sooner, I didn't think you guys want to here "ford" here. lol, so, I'm probably gonna drive the t-bird around for a while, then sell it on ebay, or somewhere, and have LOTS of cash to dump into the fireturd! this only proves, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat! (or firebird) lmao, -Colt

ljnowell

I dont know man, dont sound too nice to me.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The '68 was my granddads. My dad had a '67 Impala 275 horse 327 PG, which he traded for a year-end '69 Impala 300 horse 350 TH350 4 months before I got my permit. The '69 is the car I drove for my one and only driver's license driving test, and the '68 is the one in which I almost lost said privileges.

Although 4-doors, the '67 & '68 were fairly light. The '69 would out-run the '68, but just barely. The '67 was the fastest of the 3. Oh, what they would be able to do now... (except my mom totalled the '69 in '74).

In early '74, I went to a car show in Boston (was stationed at Ft. Devens at the time). There was an econorail there with a 307 engine with 9-sec timeslips. Obviously, it wasn't much like the one in the '68, but I don't think I've ever seen a "racecar" with an Olds 307 in it.

Rabbitt

Well, even if it didn't come factory, dealers did a lot to boost a car. And the malibu did come with a 307.. for christ's sake, the camaro came with the 307 option (68 and 69). There are more weird combo's than that. You could get a 1970 chevelle wagon.. 2 door, LS6 450HP 454, if you ordered it all with that.

Nitrovamp

By the way, I said "high-output" in my last post, I should have specified what ford called the "super cobra-jet" package. oops. And on my soon to be trip to spokane, I'm gonna pick-up that 1978 chicken with the fresh 400 smalls, and make an offer of $900 on the t-bird. I just gotta wait for my freind to go on "vacation leave" or whatever it is. gonna be good to see him too. -Colt

ljnowell

hang on a second, did you say that someone had swapped a 400 chevy into a fireturd?

Nitrovamp

Excuse me? yes a 1978 firebird formula with an edelbrock 400 smalls crate engine that only has 2500 miles on it. If there was a "giving you the finger smiley" I'd use it. -Colt

ljnowell

man, just doesnt seem right to do that. You have to understand where I'm coming from. Personally I've always been an olds man. My favorite car is the '69 442. Awesome cars. As such I also like the older buicks and pontiacs. I've seen a lot of people switch a chevy motor into a pontiac or olds, and to me it always seemed wrong. Not that I havent seen some of them go really fast. Damn fast, cause usually the chevy engine they put in has been built like a ****. I just never really liked that idea.

Fast305

By the way the 1970-1973 307 came with a 4 bbl in some applications. The optional V8 in a chevy van was a 307 with a Q-jet. Interestingly the 327 was never put in them. I have also seen some 307s that came with a 4bbl.

What everyone has failed to mention is that the 307 has 145 HP but at 3,800 rpm. It has 275 ft/lbs @ 2,000 rpm. It is a torque engine meant for tall gearing, heavy cars, overdrives, and GREAT gas mileage. My grandpa had one in a 1988 cadillac sedan deville brougham and it got the job done. It had a 2004r, 2.53:1 gears, and weighed about 4,000 lbs. It would still light the tires up in 1st gear and still get 27 mpg on the highway. If you are looking for a daily driver the 307 ranks among the best. For all out power and racing no way.

ljnowell

I agree that the 307 isnt a bad engine, and yes it was built for fuel economy and torque, but it didnt live up to the expectations of either. As far as coming with a four barrel, RB was right again, I did some research and also talked to the family mechanic (my uncle who has been in the business for a LOOOOOOOOONG time) and there was never a chevy with a 307 4 barrel from the factory. He did say at one time, that some dealers would even throw in a manifold and carb change for free to get people to buy the cars. Usually this is what leads to people arguing about the 307 4 barrel. I almost picked one with RB myself, until my dad told me that his 70 nova was this way. The car dealers did it, not GM, so it isnt factory.

Nitrovamp

yeah, I like the 442's, and I have access to a 425 engine, but thats out of the question in my case with this 89' firebird. And the olds 307 yes, is built for torque, obviously comin from a bick estate wagon. Just to bring people up to date on the subject, the reason for this post was originally based on the fact that I just had the engine in the wagon rebuilt, and the trnny went. It WOULD light the tires up too. But the main problem here is that everyone wants a high-po vehicle, including me, and a bop bolt pattern. but what DOES bop stand for??? (Buick olds pontiac????)well, regardless, someone let me know. Are there cams, rockers, etc out there for the small block olds engines??? I mean, come-on here, this whole thing is about having fun and being unique isn't it? and what IF I could push quite a bit of horses out of a buick 307? The engine has gotten a bad rep among those looking for high performance because of it STOCK lack of power. But what IF this engine is really a sleeping beast? -Colt

THEGENERAL

yes BOP stands for Buick, Olds, Pontiac, and yes there are aftermarket cams lifters heads intakes and other goodies out there for a olds engine but your going to pay twice what you would when its all said and done than you would for a chevy small block to build ...but if it were me id just sell that engine and go buy a good 305 or 350 and bolt that bad boy in your ride and be done with it ....itll be alot easier and less headache when your done with it ....not sayin you cant put a olds engine in your car or buick or pontiac but your gonna run into some problems with stuff thats gonna have your car down for longer than you would want ....


hope this helps man good luck

Nitrovamp

this cars been down for a LONG LONG time. Also, Buick, olds, PONTIAC? this is a PONTIAC firebird. but what about ebay? I'm gonna check for bop parts. also, what about the fact that there are alot of buick and olds trannys that are manuals? Anyways, I got other problems now, I ran my 21' boat up on a bunch of rocks today, and ****ed the hull up bad. gelcoat??? EXPENSIVE! So I gotta get that done right away being that it is a coast guard boat. Auxilary, but still coast guard. later guys. -Colt

Lonestar

Have you figured out if it's an Olds or a Buick engine yet?
Obviously its an Olds, and yes you can build it. Don't take any jive from anyone as it is your car and have fun doing what you want to it. Be creative, but realize that building an Olds engine for high performance is going to be extremely expensive.

THEGENERAL

i understand that your car is a pontiac but your car has a corporate engine in it ....and yes you can put what ever you want in it its your ride man but itll be alot less headache to put a standard chevy in it like it was meant to have in it is all im sayin the parts to put a bop engine in it are goin to be more expensive but im sure there are kits out there to do it im not sayin it wont work ...have fun and let us know how it goes

THEGENERAL

sorry to hear about your boat man that sucks bad ...

br()bert

ok whats this thread about now?

RB83L69

Choking chickens

THEGENERAL

LMAO

Riley's35089rs+

1. catch chicken

2. grab chicken firmly by the neck.

3. squeez neck firmly careful not to remove head!

THEGENERAL

wow now what is this thread about..LMAO

ljnowell

hmmm seems like we have gotten off topic a little bit, seems like choking chickens wouldnt be an appropriate subject. How about we refer to it as choking fire-chickens. Thats a little closer.

Nitrovamp

lmao, yeah, I was aboput ta' "choke my fire-chicken", but decided "what the hell", and got into the motor. I hope someone eventually reads this. lol. Well, anyhow, the donor car is an 83' buick electra station wagon. the 307, upon inspection and to my suprise, is a reman'd crate engine, well, at least the short block. thats good, now the bad. 3 exhaust valves on the left bank are fried. The tops of the stems and pounded down and the keepers are shot. no big though, every thing else in the engine is good. the pluses here are a high nickel block, remanned lower, everything on this block and engine (cept the pistons lol) make a sbc look puny. beefy as hell.it's a Y code engine, and the 9 codes (86-90) came stock with roller lifters and cam w/.440 lift, so I can get my hands on them easily. the motor is built for major torque and with the T-5 world class manual behind it and 3:73 gears should free it up a bit. I'm looking for reliable, good transportation and not an insane monster, but it'll still be fast enough, and sound good with dual glass packs exited under the doors. also, I found out that a chevy bell will fit just fine, just gonna stick up a bit. sheet metal will fix the gap. also, this engine has fat 6" con rods, 3.385 inch stroke, 5a 67cc heads, 4a aluminum intake, 1.6 rockers that are bridged with pedestals, and will pretty much bolt right in. This should be fun, and wont cost much, so I wont be deterred from doin some wild **** to it like a nitrous kit and what not. I'll only run a 100 shot. I'll keep you guys informed, and get some pics. -Colt

runnriottt

yes, the 68 chevelle did come with a 307. 2bl carb only.
i ditched the motor for a big block, but the car has the numbers to prove it. I just read this whole thred and to get back on subject, the motor was dog. I spent money on it, tryed like hell to get any performance out of it, but no luck. Had the heads done, cam swap, headers... what a waste. The only thing that is good about the thing is that if its chevy, it will interchange with other small block chevs. thats it.
The chevelle came with a powerglide, and i wish i still had it.
the best thing about the car in its stock form was the trans. if you are still thinking about the swap, and you can find a bop powerglide, then you might turn the tires a little. have fun with the torque arm...
i have to second the rest, having owned one, pick another small block.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Talk about back from the dead. This post was started almost a year ago! Back when I was Fast305 not Fast355.

Nitrovamp

lmao, thats funny, but one thing you dont realize is that this is a 307 olds engine, not a chev. Olds, as in better built and designed than chev. Chevy is actually gm's odd-ball "cheepo" engine. and besides, like I said, I'm not looking for insane power, I want drivablility and reliablilty. nothing better than an olds 307. and I'm not going to run some puny worthless suto, I'm running a t-5 world-class I just rebuilt specially for this car. And beside, NOTHING produces low-end tor que like an olds. horsepower is a BYPRODUCT of torque as well as a MEASUREMENT, any worth-while mechanic and builder knows this. Torque is what throws you back into your seat, and is what gets you off the line fast. I'd ALWAYS ratyher have my engine have more torque than power, rather than power over torque. here's a few links to rub in your guys faces. http://www.mondellotwister.com/ArtGiantK.htm http://jadcock.oldsgmail.com/cutlass/307spec.html
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofe307.htm
I'm gonna do it, so I dont really care to here any "oh dont this and oh dont thats" about this engine. you people dont know **** about it. I'm sure if I said something about advanced mechanical engineering involving multiple polynomial equations some idiot would pipe-up with a "nuh uh". So gho figure, it'll be faster than any 305 crossfire, I'll tell ya that much. -Colt

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I could be faster, or just as fast as a crossfire 305. Also being one of those "different" engien swappers & having owned an 87 Regal w/the 307 w/roller cam, DON"T DO IT!!!! My fried 3.4 had more performance,, even when it kept dying on me.

Even if it's built up, sell it & buy a [gags] chev....... [/gags] corparate engine.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I never said that the 307 was a bad engine. I just said that stock they don't have much HP or peformance. Cam it, add headers, change the intake, use some 350 olds heads (decked for smaller cc chamber and ported), use a good 4bbl, a performance advance curve and the engine will come alive compared to stock.

I would rather build one of GMs 5.0 liter engines than a 350 chevy any day. My overcammed 305 was quicker than my present 350 ever thought about being.

http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/more_power.html
http://jimscutlass.tripod.com/id17.htm
http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofe307.ht...IDEngineDetail

Nitrovamp

Thanks for the sites, seen em all, I do my homework. the 4A alum intake flows as good as edelbrocks performer, the 350 heads are too large in diameter, and yes, I'm gonna run a holley 4bbl. they came stock with a Q-puke. like I said before, I want the low-end torque that chevy can't provide without alot of modifications, and still save some gas. I'm gonna take pics tomorrow. -Colt

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I am eventually going to get around to rebuilding the one from the 88 cadillac. It had about 480,000 miles on it when it finally started pouring coolant out of the front of the intake manifold gasket. I figure it is time to give it a little TLC.

My 305 had 270,00 on it before it gave up due to low oil volume (timing chain was changed by a shop and they didn't drop the pan to clean out the platic timing gear teeth, plugged pick up screen) which lead to a spun # 1 rod bearing and premature cam lobe wear (XE274H gone).

Well that and numerous 14.7 passes at 98 in a full size van and alot of street racing versus hondas and other imports. Lasted 50,000 miles and 3 years with my heavy foot after modding it and twisting it to 6,300 all the time.

Nitrovamp

WHOA ****!!!! 480,000!!!!!!!! HOLY CRAP!!!!
Thats insane!!!! I said reliability, and thats an understatement. and btw, the intake gasket coolant thing is common. alota' times people think it's their water pump that went.
it's cause of the difference in materials. the iron heads and alum intake with a gasket of who knows what material in between form an electrolisis effect when the water pump circulates the coolant, whilst passing it forms an acid like structure and aids this corrosion of the gasket. I can provide pics of this one. most corrosion forms on the outside ports of the gasket. btw, you runnin a valley pan? Just wonderin. lemme know. -Colt

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I know that the gasket is a common thing.

Still the stock olds 307 and I haven't been into it but I bet it has a valley pan. It is a 1988 vin 9 with the swirl port heads and a non roller cam.

A while back I decided just to find out what kind of health the long block was in. Scarry thing is I checked the compression and every cylinder is within about 5 psi of each other and it still has 160 psi +/- 2 or 3. It still didn't burn any oil to speak of. Had the typical olds valve cover oil drip onto the manifolds. The rings were also begining to show sign of their age due to some blowby out the breather tube at idle. My grandfather used this car for a 120 mile commute each way everyday for years so most of the miles are highway. The car never dipped below high 20s or so MPG at 75 mph. All that was done to it was tune ups at 70,000 mile intervals and oil changes every 5,000 (all highway miles) Car actually still has lots of power just leaks coolant out after about a hour of running.

The engine is still untouched except I know it had a timing chaing changed when it had around 150,000 miles (HD roller). It has killed something like 3 2004r transmissions(shift too soft and eat clutch packs), a few alternators, a couple of starters, and misc other parts but my Grandpa passed a while back and isn't around anymore to say exactly what else. He kept a log of exactly what was changed and when, if I can find it somewhere.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I can say that he used to swear by oldsmobile engine durability. He also used to mention how rediculous the law suits against GM back when they were using engine from different divisions were. In his opinon the Olds motor was top followed by the chevy small block then big block cadillac.

I can't contest the olds' durability, dependability, and economy though.

Nitrovamp

if it's a vin 9 motor, it should have the roller cam, specially if it's an 88'. wierd. but anyhow, thats crazy, high 20's on the highway, and the compression test is nutz.lol. I already ordered a full kit from mondello for this engine. So she'll be built. And most of my driving will be commute mostly highway etc. I here these engine only turn about 1800rpm at 65mph. thats nuts. But anyways, I'm happy with it. So we'll see how she treats me. behind the t-5 world class it SHOULD be able top turn the tires quite profusely.
-Colt