Igottacamaro

i'm looking to build an engine to run approx. 11 second 1/4 mile times. Now i used to build up honda crx's and run them, but i gotta outa that. i'm lookin to beat 'em now. anyways, i'm looking to get a 1992 z-28 camaro. i just like the look of the '92. i'm assuming i'll need to acquire a 350 block, and get to workin on that first? Bare with me, because i don't know v8's that well yet. any suggestions on what type of engine to go with? i'm really looking to build this up, with high performance parts, whatever it takes to get me to 11 sec. i'll continue to keep on checking out the message boards and reading up, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Dr. Suess

there is a good book called 11 second '82 - '92 firebird / camaro i dont know how good it is cause i didnt get mine yet but i got it from summit you could probly find it in a local bookshop

86BirdSE

The thing is traction and torque. A 350 is a great torque producing motor. My engine I'm building is a 4 bolt main 350 with stock 64 cc heads, flat-top pistons, a comp cams 252H (252 duration, .425/.425) 1.6 ratio roller tip rockers and cast crank.

Using Desktop Dyno, I figure with a 600CFM carb I'm putting out 325 HP at 5500 and ~400 ft/lb of torque from 2000-5000RPM. With this setup, anbd a 3.42 ratio/posi I feel I'm good for low 12's on street tires... when the winter is over I hope to be able to have slips to back it up.

Torque is the key to get the heavier car rolling. Assuming you get good traction, a 383 (stroked 350) or 400 are the way to go to get your car into the 11's. Gearing is important too. the factory did have a 3.73 ratio as an option on the earlier (82-86) 4 cyl camaros, and the 6 cyl camaros have 3.42 ratios.

Is this on a budget? Will this be a daily driver? Manual or Auto? These are all major factors to consider as well.

MrDude_1

there are ALOT of ways to do that... so you have a whole world of options out there. its not like the honda world where there are only 3 or 4 ways to get the car going that fast.


easiest is just to make a mild motor and spray it...

or you could just get some decient heads, cam, and a converter.. you'll need a aftermarket intake manifold, and headers... manifold is alot cheaper if you go carb... even cheaper if you go used...


at some point after you make the power, you'll probly want to(or have to) get a new rear end...

this a daily driver? whats your budget? do you want it N/A, or you want to use a power adder?

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

That motor is not going to run low 12's.
A: Desktop dyno lies... The GMPP 350HO crate engine is rated at 330 horsepower and has far better heads and a larger camshaft than your proposed combination.
B: My stock 350HO never went faster than 12.88 on street tires, this was with a 3000 stall and 3.73's.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

How often will it be street driven? Are you on a budget? A friend of mine with an s10 had an awesome 11 second combination. It consisted of 10.5:1 compression, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads and the comp XE284 camshaft. It bested 11.8 at 113 if I remember correctly on slicks. I personally would go for a better set of heads and a solid cam, especially if it wont see a lot of street duty.

pskel350

it takes a lot more then a powerful engine to run 11's. an engine does nothing if the rest of the car wont work with that much power.

the engine combo posted above, will have a hard time running in the mid 13's

MrDude_1

you need a trans that can handle it.... either a converter/built 700r4, or a T56 and a good clutch.... the T5 will last a lil while, but id expect it to frag quickly...

you need a rear that wont blowup when you put sticky tires on it

you need sticky tires.

relocating the LCAs helps ALOT...





devil is in the details.... thats the diff between the guy that spent $5,000 and is still slow, and the guy that spent $1000 and is quicker.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

I agree.

kfoley

500hp and a diet should put you into the 11's, that is if you have traction. With that much power, you'll need a new tranny and rearend since the stock ones won't last long behind that kind of a motor. You'll also need a set of slicks to hook up. There's lots of ways to reach 500hp, probably the easiest being to build a 350hp 350 motor (easy to do) then spray it with a 150 shot. Now if you want to do it N/A it'll be a bit harder. For more streetability you'll have to go with more cubes. A 383 or 406 with AFR heads and a decent cam should get you there. If you're really wanting a project though, you can drop in a fairly mild 454 and have 500hp easily.

Also, I would have to agree with unkown_host and pskel350, that motor won't get low 12's. It'll have a hard time with mid 13's.

Igottacamaro

well i appreciate all the feedback, first off, its going to be a daily driver, i'll pay whatever it takes to get me to break 11's. from what i've read from ya'll, i'll need a 350 or 383 and all the bits a pieces-rods-cams-intake,etc. a bigger better rear end, a transmission, and some slicks, well ****, i need to get to work then.haha. is there any specific dealers or parts, like differentials, or transmissions that i should go with? Thanks again everyone.

Igottacamaro

what about a supercharger? how much engine life loss would i have, if i went with a supercharger? also, i'm not going to be too rough on the engine, only when i'm at the strip or playin by myself on an open road.muhahaha

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

Rearend should be last on your priorities as long as you dont run sticky tires. Do you care about gas mileage?

Igottacamaro

yea, i do care about gas mileage. and just out of curiousity, what type of ignition would be good to go with? msd.jacobs...

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

MSD, never had a hiccup with mine.

zerotosixtyV8

350, 377, 406, 427 (434) are some of the best motors to go with for a solid 11 sec performer, all can be done for a relatively cheap amount of money. 350 is a good solid performer but displacement limited obviously, a 377 is a very good performer too but their high end motors so you will need to gear it accordingly and it will have poor street manners, 406 is a torque monster so you will need to upgrade the drivetrain to hook well, and a 427-434 is expensive but it has tire smoking 406 torque and explosive 377 top end but you'll never be disappointed with it

bob8748

I'm shooting for low 10's to breaking 9's.
But then again. Started 3 years ago and isnt done yet. Havent gave up yet!

swise67

350,30 over dart 64cc heads, good internal parts, cam 630/630 lift, 1.5's and 1.6's rockers ,roller from top to bottom, running on 114 octane with 410 gears (stock rear with posi) after market axles, lift bars ,and sub frame tied with 26 x 10.5 x 15et drags (soon to be 29.5x13.5x15 same tires) running 11.68 1/4 still tuning in when tranny went south (th350) weak link sprag broke ,no nos and car on a diet 3080 with 230lb driver and 5 gallons of gas. stock seats front and rear all glass still in, fiberglass hood. Buddy of mine was running 11.30's with similar setup(before engine took a dump on him )

MrDude_1

none.

spend your money to make more power... then light it off with somthing fancy...

if you really want to upgrade it, just get a better coil... no need for anything special.. GMs ignition is quite good well into the 11second range. there are guys there with 100% stock ignitions.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

Most stock HEI distributors are notorious for being innacurate in the upper rpms.

MrDude_1

thats true.

perhaps that should be rephrased...



the stock HEI in good condition will go into the 12 no prob and work into the 11s.. as long as you're not going higher then 6k it'll work fine...

once the cars going, you may want to upgrade later.... but it takes alot of work to get a street car into the 11s... and the $100-$200 spent on a MSD box (or similar) is better spent elsewhere on the car right now..

im not saying they're junk, im just saying, you dont need em right now.

87LS

OK my 2 cents is this
Get a forged internals 350
Put a cam that revs it to about 6500
Be a man, get a T-56 manual transmission with Centerforce Dual friction clutch
AFR Heads 210's and a good carb and Edelbrock Performe RPM intake
Get a 4.10 axle....you run 82 mph 2000 rpm in OD with the T-56
Spray about 200 into it, it will be miled mannered for the street, and obnoxious on the spray.
Thats what I'm building

scottland

what on g ods green earth are you talking about?

there is some truth in all that.... but a lot of BS

what makes a 377 a high end motor?

and why does a 434 have explosive top end?

your theories are conflicting.

people claim that a 377 is a better engine for high rpm power because it has a big bore/stroke ratio.

so by that diluted assumption wouldn't stroking a 400 decrease its bore/stroke raito and kill top end power?

more cubic inchs have more potential for power.

heads that flow good at low lift, and a low duration, low lift cam will make power at lower rpm, heads that flow better at higher lift and a longer duration cam with more lift will make more power at higher rpms.

obviously there is more to making an engine that can operate at high rpms. valvetrain is important, the quality of the bottom end, the quality of the machine work, mantaining clearences.

but it all boils down to,

a 377 has the potential to make more power than a 350, a 400 more than a 377, a 427 more than a 400.

more cubes can make more power. a certain cubic inch motor has no more potential to make power at higher rpm than another.

fb305svs

refer to my setup... i feel this is pretty typical... on an ideal launch, i could run a 12.6 by the math...


car weighs in at minimal fuel with me in it at 3550...

zerotosixtyV8

They aren't theories, just observations. so shut your gob and don't take anything personal. 377s tend to only perform well with a matched setup for a high RPM range. 434s seem to have a much more street friendly powerband on average.
You match these things, as any good engine builder would tell you. I'd take a 434/427 over any other small block because big inches and a big stroke = big torque, no matter what pea brained spin you have on it. more RPM = more HP depending on torque output. everything else you've mentioned unleash its potential... matched parts, specifically induction (heads intake) and cam and make for one vicious street monster. I'd really like to see a 383 make comparable HP and/or torque to a 434 build for build. a 377 would be softer on torque because of its smaller stroke, but because of that, it NEEDS to rev higher to make comparable HP to a motor of the same bore, thus making it suited for higher RPMs if you want any power out of it (HP being torque through time, meaning the 377 has to make its lower torque output more times a minute to equal the bigger motors HP rating yadda yadda). most of those nascar 358s are only making aroud 450-500 ft. lbs of torque and thats with an SB2 top end but they also spend much of their time in high RPMs.
duhhh... if you are going to take the time to build a motor, you are shooting yourself in the foot if you go with junk.
ok, so I guess a 305 would suffice rather than a 350? ha

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

I have to agree with some things and disagree.

Dont agree on the generalizing of certain engines being used for certain applications as much as it is. There's no reason a 377 couldn't be just as good of a street motor as a 350...same thing but with a larger bore. And most people can't afford anything over a 406, like a 415, 420, 434. That's when things get tricky. If you really want a high revving motor going from a 400 to a 377 isn't enough to make that much of a difference. Now using a lightweight 302 crank in a 400 with flyweight pistons and flywheel; I can see that happenin

Something I notice that people don't usually see though...even though output differences are slight, people do not take into account that the 400 uses 2.65 journals...and your 350's and 383 strokers (as well as most everything), use 2.45" journals. In that respect, the 400 would have more internal friction due to the bore size (ring drag) and surface area of the journals. Not to mention potential for slightly higher oil temperature (part of the reason some 400's dont cool well). Nice thing about a 400 is that valve shrouding is not as big of an issue since there is more clearance in the cylinder bore...(as long as the heads are prepped properly). This allows more airflow...more HP. the bore size allows more downforce on the piston while the stroke allows a 'longer arm' for more torque (what you need for the 11's, but a 383 has the same stroke)

To build a reliable 11 second motor with street manners, you need cubes in my opinion (with superchargers being artificial cubes). More cubes allow more engine vaccum, which give you the ability to run a bigger cam and retain your streetability. For example, I have a 230/244 duration cc306 cam for my 350 LT1 that'll make it idle rough and rock further up top. In a 383, it idles alot smoother, which is why I put in a larger cam, to make up the difference.

As far as engines go, 400 blocks are getting hard to find since they were made from 1970-1980 only, usually in trucks (or some larger sedans). When you find one, they're usually bored over since the short 5.565" rod increases side loading on the thrust side of the cylinder wall from rod angle, wearing it out. 400's have siamesed cylinders, so you really dont want to go more than .030 overbore on the cylinders (the small block standard) even though you can go .060. Best bet is a complete old motor so you can use the block. 350's are everywhere...been out for years, literally millions of 'em floating around. Getting to the point, the prices for rotating assemblies for a 400, 383 or 350 are almost identical...and in most cases a cast steel crank, 4340 rods and forged pistons are fine for 500+ HP. If you can score a good 400 block go that way...if not, go 383. The torque advantage is phenominal.

My recommendation for a complete reliable driver is a 406, using a set of spacer main bearings with a 383 crank and splayed 4 bolt mains in a 2 bolt block if you want to go that far. Using 1/16 total seal rings will also lessen your ring drag and allow more HP. Then use some high-flow aluminum heads with around 11:1 compression, with at least a 5.7 rod (6.0 rods cost about the same) and flat top pistons. Ideally heads would have large valves (at least 2.02/1.6...Id go to at least a 2.05 with a 400 to take advantage of the larger bore) and a semi-conservative intake runner (210 cc's or so) and maybe a mild port out of the box. Then a decent hydraulic cam (less maintenance, preferably roller, more $$$) around 230-240ish degrees duration and a good EFI tune or a GOOD carb and intake and you should be well on your way. That kind of motor will most likely exceed your goals though... Not to say a stock crank, good rods and hyperutectic pistons couldn't do the job...it all depends on your wishes and budget.

Just remember, a large portion of it is not only the driver, but the weight transfer, weight and gearing characteristics. Make sure to prep the car accordingly...in most cases, a well configured car with a 350 HP engine will ET near or faster than one making 450 HP thrown together out of what was lying around. And always err on the small side (except for displacement)...as this will usually supply better results and satisfaction.

A mild 383 on juice, even a 350, a hot N/A 350 or 383, supercharged 350 or 383, and 400's are all able to reach your target.

Whew! I was bored Korea sucks. There's alot more to it than that, but just some food for thought.

zerotosixtyV8

agreed for the most part ^ I'd still say go with the largest you can get (434 ci!), but if 11s is your goal, then ANY motor, including a built and sprayed 305 can get you there

what most guys were doing back in the day was taking a 400 block and sleeving it to strengthen the inherent weakness due to lack of between the cylinder water passages. my uncle used to sell off the 400s he got in because he didn't like the cooling issues they were known for and there were so many readily available big blocks that it was more practical, cheaper, and more reliable to go with one if you wanted larger than 400 inches for your street car than a 400. he admits he would've liked to played around with one had he known how good they are when sleeved.

scottland

zero, you don't need to take it personally, you had just made some unjustified generalizations.

you said that a 377 is a high end motor (almost verbatim)

said that "406 is a torque monster"

and "427-434... it has tire smoking 406 torque and explosive 377 top end"

i just wanted to clear up that those weren't nessicarily the case.

chev496

Like these people are saying. We need to know your budget and what you want to accomplish. Do you want it all motor, or do you want a supercharger, how about NOS. It all depends on your goals. You can build a nice 383 to get your well into the 11's if you can hook up. you will need around 500 hp and here is an engine that dynos at 503 @ 5500 hp and 517 @ 4500 ft. lbs Torque. If that doesnt get you there, then u will need a mild spray, say around 100 hp shot, but that should put you will into the 11's if you can hook up. Here is the engine.

383 cu. in.
Carburetor: Holley 750 double pumper
Heads: Air Flow Research 190cc Street
Intake: Air Flow Research FloPower RPM
Camshaft: Comp Cams hydraulic roller, with 236/242° of duration @ 0.050 in. lift, and 0.520/0.540 in. lift
Headers: 1 3/4 in.
Distributor: MSD
Timing: 34°
Comp. Ratio: 9.5:1

MAX HP: 503 @ 5500
MAX Torque: 517 @ 4500


Of you can try this combo.

Displacement: 383 cu. in.
Carburetor: Barry Grant Silver Claw 750
Heads: Air Flow Research 190, with 2.02/1.60 in. valves, 190 cc intake runners, CNC porting, and extra hand-porting
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM
Camshaft: Comp Cams hydraulic roller, with 235/242° of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift, and 0.555/0.576 in. of lift (Corrected valve lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.592/0.614 in.)
Rockers: Comp Cams 1.6:1
Pistons: TRW forged
Rods: Lunati 5.7 in.
Crank: Scat 8060 cast
Timing: 36°
Comp. Ratio: 9.4:1

MAX HP: 525 @ 5800
MAX Torque: 535 @ 4200

That may have a Rat-Tat-Tat a little more than you want as you will be looking aroudna round a 300 stall with a automatic. And as with all these engines, i would recomend either a bullet proof 700r4 or a turbo 400.

Both of them engines may be over your budget, and if they are, just left me know because i have a few more dyno charts wtih just ported iron stock castings with all forged internals and a hydraulic stick that if sprayed with around a 100 shot, will get you well into the low 11's

Drastius

These are some pretty work intensive solutions.

If your concerned about fuel economy you should stick with fuel injection.

A guy named Kingtalon on the power adder board had a pretty nice post about how he used a roots blower with fuel injection. He made 500 hp and 20 mpg I believe, you should still be able to search for his post.

If you want to keep it N/A and easy without any motor buildups. I think you should get a 350 TPI car, that way you have fuel injection. Swap out the TPI intake, new heads and cam, full exhaust system (headers back). Some nitrous if you need something extra.

That should be more than enough power, now you just have too hook it up. Might want to try the suspension and handling section for that.

fb305svs

if he wants to go 11's on motor, using a 350, that is still driveable (my cam barely makes enough vacum, although driveability of the engine is ok enough) then he wiull need to run a light car with the proper suspension setup to both hook and drop weight... i'm confident if i went with a chrome moly front tubular frame, converted to a manual rack and pinion, aluminum DS, and drag light wheels along with all my other mods (fiberglass hood, alum. heads etc) he would have a chance...

TTA850

Not to throw a wrench in the gears but this is what I run that will more than meet your goals

Buick 3.8 SFI Turbo V6
Displacement: 235 cu. in. (.020 over)
Block: stock with steel main caps and main girdle
Turbo: TE64-1
Intercooler: CAS V2
Injectors: 55#
ECM: stock
Heads: stock with mild hand porting
Intake: stock port matched to heads
Camshaft: Crane hyd roller 214/210 @ .050 lift .548/.536 lift w/stock 1.65:1 rockers
Rockers: stock
Pistons: JE forged
Rods: stock
Crank: stock
Timing: 19°/26°(pumpgas/racegas)
Comp. Ratio: 8:1
Boost: 20-21psi on pumpgas/26-27psi on racegas(was out of fuel at 27psi with 55# injectors)

Appx HP: 650 @ 5500 (500 @ 5300 on pumpgas)
Appx Torque: 700 @ 4200 (600 @ 4000 on pumpgas)

Rest of my drivetrain is a homebuilt TH400 with 2800 stall converter and brake and a 3.08 geared 12 Bolt and 26x11.5x16 ET Streets on stock rims that I drive on everywhere including to and from the track.

Best times on pumpgas with 20-21psi boost:
11.46@115.81 w/1.55 60ft (best ET)
11.49@117.58 w/1.68 60ft (best MPH)

Best time on racegas with 26-27psi boost:
10.69@125.80 w/1.47 60ft

Next year looking for low 10's/high 9's if I get a chance to switch to 3.42 gears and 28" tires along with 83# injectors.

Not saying it's the best way to do it,but there is an alternative to the small block chevy

Steve

88IROC350TPI

The low-budet 11 second daily driveable combo:

ENGINE:
-350, 10:1 compression
-Stock crank & rods, decent forged pistons, good hardware
-Stock Vortec heads
-Comp Cams XE274 camshaft
-Edelbrock RPM intake
-Holley or Demon 750 double-pumper
-Run 1/2" fuel line and use a good pump like the BG 280

TRANSMISSION/DRIVELINE:
-Junkyard TH350 with decent rebuild
-3000-3500RPM stall (using a decent converter, not junky TCI or B&M)
-STOCK rear rebuilt with good parts
-3.73 or 4.10 rear and Auburn posi
-28" tall BFG Drag Radials
-STOCK SUSPENSION


That above will get you into the mid 12's on motor without too much trouble. Maybe faster depending on how much you lighten the car up. NOW buy yourself a nitrous kit and hit it with a 150 shot. If you don't run 11's even on bone stock suspension you need to go back to imports

fb305svs

Well i dunno bout that.... 400 fwhp is barely enough to push a 3500lbs car into the 12's in MY opinion... thats all that a stock vorteced 350 will make with that cam too...

drop some weight, get those 60's into the 1.7-1.6 range, then you have a chance of runnin a mid 12...


I know my car is beefy (3550 w/driver, 5 gal. fuel), but i have a motor that has a wide power band, and a relatively low loss driveline (as compared to an auto) and im only running high 12's lol... with a perfect situation putting me at 12.6...

a 150 shot will def put that motor in the 11's tho, thats not any doubt...

88IROC350TPI

I dont care if it only supposedly makes 400HP because I've seen 3 different cars with the exact same combo all running 12.50's or better. "Pony Killer" on here is running 11.90's on motor with that combo.

Forget the magazines, forget the bench racing, forget dynos, it works and he WILL acheive his goals with it even if his car weighs 3500lbs

fb305svs

yeah and pony killers car is not the average car either... it IS lightened, and doesn't have stock vortecheads either... and needless to say he is a hell of his driver judging by the time slips...

i'll believe it when i see it... i have lots of friends with all sorts of motor setups, including one with a vortec setup... he runs 12.8's and thats with suspension work, and car lgihting, and its a hard top, high stall convertors, the whole shebang... basically everything you said, excpet a slightly better cam, and port work on the heads.

i knwo what it takes to get these cars into the 12's like this, i have my own as an example... it make more power than a vortec motor, in a good chassis and has yet to run faster than 12.8 on a 2.0 60'...

TTA850

No offense but I think your just making excuses.It only takes a little over 400hp to get an 11 second slip.My old car was a perfect example being that it only made about 415hp and went a best of 11.99@112.26 w/1.63 60ft at a hefty 3,606lbs and was a consistant 12.0 car.A freinds car with the exact same setup went 11.79,the only difference being his converter was good and locked up where mine didnt.

Even my car is only making around 500hp on pumpgas and goes easy 11.4-11.5 w/1.55-1.57 60fts at 115-117mph.

I'm wondering what your mph is on a 12.8 run with 2.0 60ft?My guess is you have enough power to get 60fts in the 1.6 range but something wether it is tuning or suspension is holding you back.PK's car is nothing that special,but is a well put together combination that works and he knows how to tune his car for best performance - that includes 1.6 60fts.

Again I dont mean to be offensive, but I think there are a few area's in your car that need to be addressed.Even a stocker w/drag radials should get 1.8 60ft's(my GTA went a best of 1.82 with drag radials and a flowmaster cat back when it was a stock L98/A4 car)

Steve

88IROC350TPI

a'men. Pony Killer's heads have no work to the ports, just some minor bowl cleaning which I doubt really made a whole lot of difference (maybe a tenth worth of performance?) And yes it may be lightened up but I bet it'll still weigh about 3300lbs (with driver). So even if you throw his motor into a 3600lb car you still have a low/mid 12 second car (like I said). Yes a good part of it is tuning, testing, and driving but thats the way with any fast car ...I don't know any people who have gone to the track and ran their best times right off the bat.

Suspension work would definately help but I think f-body stock suspension is pretty decent as long as you get some seat time and get a feel for the car. Sooo, with that said I could gauruntee someone in a midly lightened up f-body could bust off an 11.50-11.70 pass on a 150 shot with the combo I listed. Once again, I'd never throw out a combo I haven't seen done with my own eyes.

While we're on Vortec motors the fastest one I know is a guy with a malibu bracket car (3200lbs with driver): 350 11:1, stock vortecs, rpm intake, crane saturday night special solid cam 244/252 @ 050 .518/.536 lift 106LSA, 4.10 gears, 3500 converter. This thing no matter what always busts an 11.70 on motor. Very consistent car, anyone whos been to a bracket event at Atco Raceway has probably seen it.

One last rant: I've seen guys with all kinds of suspension work along with top-dollar motors run horrible times and I've seen guys with low-budget motors and relatively stock suspension running unbelievable times... Its all in the selection of parts, knowledge, tuning, and testing. No need to spend insane amounts of money to go fast ....as long as you know what you're doing and select your parts wisely.

fb305svs

hmm lets see... pretty sure it was a 12.8~ @ 109.5 or something around there... 2.0 60'...

ive had 1.9's but this was out of about 6 runs, one including burning up the clutch

im sure a lot of it is me... its got the power, i could sping salicks all the way past the 100' mark if i wanted too im pretty convinced... being a stick car its just gonna take me a bit more time...

i'd luv to go 11's n/a or at least close, it makes the power, i have the dyno sheets to prove it lol..

guess we'll see next year... new tires will probably help more than anything, my current dr's were really worn..

zerotosixtyV8

I shouldn't have said the 434 has "explosive 377 top end and monster 406 torque" but its comparable to a 377s HP and 406 torque due to its large displacement and big torque. either way it wasn't literal, it was figuratve, comparing the benefits of both common variations of the 400 block that appear in the stroker 434 as using it to explain the outputs of those motors for an average build, obviously the circle track 434 racers are going to have a different setup from a street one, but I'm speaking generally there. it has 434 torque and top end.. destroker motors have to be a high rpm motor to make any kind of power, this isn't a mystery, it's why they aren't as "tame" on the street.

gen3z

i know this combo runs mid 11s at sea level:.030 11.1 comp,tfs heads ported,comp cams 230/244-510/540,1.5crane r.r.,superram 58mm,svo 24LB inj.,255 lph pump,crane hi-6,ps91 coil,pulleys,asm custom chip(3 tries)modded 700r4,3500 stall,12bolt w/4.10,26x10 et streets,car has no a/c,no heater,random torque arm,lakewood lca's,art morisson a-arm kit,leather interior its a 25th anniv.6pt. bar.....

GSXRCRAAZY

If you want to run consistant 11s with good daily driver manners you should probably opt for nitrous or extra cubes. Both will allow for a motor with decent low end torque and enough total power to get you there. I would suggest staying away from huge cams, heads, intakes and the sort because they all kill the street manners. For the all motor route, I would suggest a 406 long rod bottom end with afr 195 heads and a cam somewhere in the 235-245 range at .0050. Try to keep the compression as high as possible on pump gas depending on the octane available in your ares. Follow that up with a good flowing set of headers and exhaust, proper fueling, and a good converter/gear selection like a 27" tire 3.73 gear, 2400-2600 stall. That setup should net high 11s in a motor that is still fun on the street. This setup is also similiar to the above referenced book from summit.
If you don't mind the nitrous route I would suggest a 383 with any decent set of heads. All forged balanced bottom end slightly smaller cam prolly in the 230 range, decent valvetrain and a 150-175 shot. This is the cheaper route, but the power is not always there and you will struggle a bit getting consistant runs.

chev496

Can i say a very mild big block? He he. They have great street manners and can get you well into the 11's. Or how about a lt1 with a cam, ported heads and new intake. They run 10.90 in a newer z 28

dennis6

If money is no object, a LS6 should put you pretty close. You can get a longblock for less than 6grand with a camaro oil pan from www.sdpc2000.com.

The engine will get great gas mileage and put out 405hp stock. Its the same engine used in Z06 vettes. Plus it weighs 150lbs less than a 350.

Another option would be a Buick GN motor. There are many grand nationals running 11's with heavier less aerodynamic cars.

As much as I love the standard SBC, its not a good choice for what you are shooting for. 11's and fuel economy.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

It depends on what kind of car do you want. Do you want a strip car or street car or both. If you do the 1/4 mile conversion my car should run 12.0 in the 1/4, with some suspension work I hope to be around 11.7's and if I swap cams and get more stall I hope to be faster than that. My combonation is in my sig, its 100% streetable and is just as nice to drive as my 89 T/A with 305 TBI.

As it was mentioned, the engine isn't the only concern, if you want to go fast buy a good converter, 9.5 ACT, PI or Yank. The rear ends in these cars suck, I am expecting to break mine if I ever hook. LCA's, brackets, SFC's all are a must which I am sure has already been mentioned. Are you wanting to go with EFI or carb? Carb would be alot cheaper IMO. I'd love to put a super ram on my 406 but thats not in the budget AT ALL.

good luck

Berlinetta

one word... money

DTL504

iTrader: (1)

Im hoping to get into the high 11 with this combo and good tuning of the suspension:

SBC 408 PARTS and PRICES
MANUFACTURE DESCRIPTION PART# PRICE
AFR
Heads 195cc AFR-1036 $1,425.00
Price include
Springs Upgrade part #8033
(setup 130-140 seat 330-350 open)
Steam Holes Drilled part#1062

ARP
Main Studs ARP-234-5501 $51.95
Head Bolts ARP-134-3701 $58.95
Oil Pump Stud ARP-230-7002 $6.50
Oil Pump Shaft ARP-134-7901 $13.95
Fuel Pump Pushrod ARP-134-8701 $14.95
ARP Cam Bolt Kits ARP-134-1001 $3.95

CLEVITE
Main Bearing MS1038H $55.00
Rod Bearing 8-CB663H $55.00

CLOYES
True Roller Timing Chain CLO-9-3100 $60.09

CRANE
Energizer Roller Rocker CRN-11744-16 $132.50

EAGLE
H-Beam 6"Rods CRS6000B3D $335.09

EDELBROCK
Elite Air Cleaner EDL-4207 $49.88
Elite Valve Cover EDL-4249 $69.95

ELGIN Solid Lifters VT1992-16 $50.00

FEDERAL MOGUL
Cam Bearings 1235M $19.00

FEL-PRO
Head Gasket FPP-1014 (2x) $63.90
Intake Gasket FPP-1205 $13.95
Rear Main Seal Align Bored FPP-2909 $18.95

HOLLEY
Carburetors 750 Vac Sec HLY-0-3310S $249.95

LUNATI
Solid Flat Tappet Mechanical LUN-280/284F10 $183.71

MILODON
Oil Pump Pick-Up Screen MIL-18311 $34.95
Milodon Street/Strip Oil Pans MIL-30900 $123.49
Diamond Stripper Windage Tray MIL-32250 $74.95
Lifter Valley Screen Kits MIL-23150 $15.95
Oil Pan Baffles MIL-32500 $5.25

MELLING
Oil Pump MEL-M55 $15.95

MR. GASKET
Oil Pump High Press Spring MRG-26 $3.95

PIONEER
Brass Freeze Plugs SBC 400 $14.95
Harmonic Balancer PIO-872003 $95.88

SCAT
4340 Int. Bal. Crank 400-3750-6000 $490.00

SUMMIT
Fuel Pressure Guage SUM-800115 $19.95

WISECO
Pro Tru Forged Pistons PT020H4 (0.040) $419.00

Here is the engine machine work that has cost me $635.00
MACHINE SHOP WORK
Deck (.000) $150.00
Align Honed Mains $135.00
Tap Starter Bolt $30.00
Hone Finish Cylinders $60.00
Tap 3 Oil Holes $15.00
Install Deck Plugs $100.00
Bore w/ deck plates (.040) $120.00
Install Cam Bearings $25.00
Machine Shop TOTAL $635.00


TOTAL COST $4,848.99


Still have to mock the block up for clearance, get the rotating assembly balanced, and pistons mounted to rods.

ez2cdave

Book: How To Run 11 Second E.T.'s

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ml#post6373984