Lets talk 500HP NA motor builds...
#51
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Car: '82 Z28
Engine: 350
Transmission: TH400 4,000 stall
Axle/Gears: Currie 9", 4.56 gears
Originally posted by zerotosixtyV8
you could do it with a 350 but it would NOT be cheap!
you could do it with a 350 but it would NOT be cheap!
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Car: Camaro
Originally posted by EvilCartman
I've got 6 grand into my new engine lol dunno what numbers it's running though yet. I'm guessing it's at least over 400 hp without much tuning so far.
I've got 6 grand into my new engine lol dunno what numbers it's running though yet. I'm guessing it's at least over 400 hp without much tuning so far.
#53
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Car: 87' Iroc
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
Hey, looks like I got some feedback.
I'm really iffy on the cylinder heads. I know that CFM isn't always the most important thing. But how can you really find a good set of heads? I mean, what CFM does it take to support 450-500HP? At what lift levels does the flow have to be? Assuming the roller cam has around .560 lift and the duration is right. What port size is best? AFR are pretty well liked, but I've heard that the 260CFM @.5 lift is not always true on the 195s, that they are more like 240-245CFM. How important is the port size? I would think 195s is where I would like to be.
The cost isn't TOO bad, but if they dont' really flow 260CFM then will I have trouble hitting the 500 mark. The CNC full porting really jumps the price of the 195s, and getting the 210/220 race heads is more cost efficient to get the 260-275CFM. But when does intake port size affect streetability? How important are gross CFM numbers compared to port velocity/swirl/ etc etc?
My main concern is the intake setup. Will an LT1 intake even support 500HP? Assembly of an engine is cake, I can pick and chose my rotating assembly and such w/o much reguard except for cost and strength. The intake is what worries me, having a rock solid bottem end and the compression and cam to make 500HP, but not the intake setup to support it.
I'm really iffy on the cylinder heads. I know that CFM isn't always the most important thing. But how can you really find a good set of heads? I mean, what CFM does it take to support 450-500HP? At what lift levels does the flow have to be? Assuming the roller cam has around .560 lift and the duration is right. What port size is best? AFR are pretty well liked, but I've heard that the 260CFM @.5 lift is not always true on the 195s, that they are more like 240-245CFM. How important is the port size? I would think 195s is where I would like to be.
The cost isn't TOO bad, but if they dont' really flow 260CFM then will I have trouble hitting the 500 mark. The CNC full porting really jumps the price of the 195s, and getting the 210/220 race heads is more cost efficient to get the 260-275CFM. But when does intake port size affect streetability? How important are gross CFM numbers compared to port velocity/swirl/ etc etc?
My main concern is the intake setup. Will an LT1 intake even support 500HP? Assembly of an engine is cake, I can pick and chose my rotating assembly and such w/o much reguard except for cost and strength. The intake is what worries me, having a rock solid bottem end and the compression and cam to make 500HP, but not the intake setup to support it.
#54
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Car: 89' T/A, 00' Firehawk
Engine: 406 Roller
Transmission: TH700R4 w/2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3.23 Posi
The best way to go about it IMO is find a shop that does it professionally and ask them. If you are planning on a LT1 buildup, heck even if its just a SBC. I'd talk to the guys at www.totalengineairflow.com, these guys are really smart. I am doing a engine buildup for my friends 93Z and he is getting his heads/cam from there. Yes max CFM doesn't mean max HP, port velocity, under the curve and mid lift numbers are just as important if not more so in making the type of power you want. It is essential that the parts are matched almost perfectly. Pick a set of cylinder heads first, then the cam after that so you can fill the cylinders efficently and make the most power, then things like stall, gears, intake and exhaust should come after that. this is just my opinion on how to do it. Thats one of the reasons I might pull my heads off this winter and have them flowed and may get a different cam. Hope this helps some.
Jason
Jason
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Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Originally posted by Daz
Stock IROC radiator and stock dual fans ran by a Hayden adjustable switch."Too large" and "snug" are too different things.And you think a 427 small block making 500HP will run cooler than a 427 BBC?lol.
Dont believe everything you read.That article is old when the headers made for it are probably just prototypes.
BTW you can easily use wipers from a half ton pickup and still use the tall vave covers that your friends use..
Obviously you havent done the swap before,maybe if you did you would understand the article better..Theres a difference between FACT and INTERPRETATION
Daz
Stock IROC radiator and stock dual fans ran by a Hayden adjustable switch."Too large" and "snug" are too different things.And you think a 427 small block making 500HP will run cooler than a 427 BBC?lol.
Dont believe everything you read.That article is old when the headers made for it are probably just prototypes.
BTW you can easily use wipers from a half ton pickup and still use the tall vave covers that your friends use..
Obviously you havent done the swap before,maybe if you did you would understand the article better..Theres a difference between FACT and INTERPRETATION
Daz
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Car: '82 Z28
Engine: 350
Transmission: TH400 4,000 stall
Axle/Gears: Currie 9", 4.56 gears
Originally posted by zerotosixtyV8
lol, you've got more in your engine than I've got in my whole car and I'm hoping to get around 400. the only thing stock on the thing is the 350 bottom end though!
lol, you've got more in your engine than I've got in my whole car and I'm hoping to get around 400. the only thing stock on the thing is the 350 bottom end though!
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Car: '85 Camaro
Engine: LG4 305
Transmission: T-5
So you can make 500 HP with a 406 "350" on 11:1 compression and solid lifters. It won't pass emissions and won't stop, steer, or keep the interior of the car cool. Doesn't that make it essentially a race motor?
The other choice is a big block that may pass emissions, still won't stop, steer, or cool the interior, and may be hard to fit into the engine compartment.
It seems much simpler to make a 406 "350" on 8.75:1 fuel injected (my choice SuperRam) compression and do the ATI thing. You have an engine designed to fit, has room for the accesories, and 500 HP, and with some dyno time will pass emissions too. You get everything!
Make mine to go with a G-force T56 please.
P.S. How much does this cost anyway?
The other choice is a big block that may pass emissions, still won't stop, steer, or cool the interior, and may be hard to fit into the engine compartment.
It seems much simpler to make a 406 "350" on 8.75:1 fuel injected (my choice SuperRam) compression and do the ATI thing. You have an engine designed to fit, has room for the accesories, and 500 HP, and with some dyno time will pass emissions too. You get everything!
Make mine to go with a G-force T56 please.
P.S. How much does this cost anyway?
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Car: Camaro
Originally posted by jrg77
So you can make 500 HP with a 406 "350" on 11:1 compression and solid lifters. It won't pass emissions and won't stop, steer, or keep the interior of the car cool. Doesn't that make it essentially a race motor?
The other choice is a big block that may pass emissions, still won't stop, steer, or cool the interior, and may be hard to fit into the engine compartment.
So you can make 500 HP with a 406 "350" on 11:1 compression and solid lifters. It won't pass emissions and won't stop, steer, or keep the interior of the car cool. Doesn't that make it essentially a race motor?
The other choice is a big block that may pass emissions, still won't stop, steer, or cool the interior, and may be hard to fit into the engine compartment.
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Car: Camaro
Originally posted by EvilCartman
Hehe, I didn't want to really skimp on parts and just about everything was new. The block, timing cover, oilpan and main caps were the only things not new. Heck I got 2300 bucks in my transmission swap, transmission and converter were 1500 bucks lol. (actually there's another $700 to be added in there for a junk TH400 that got replaced) I don't mind the cost, just takes a little longer to get things
Hehe, I didn't want to really skimp on parts and just about everything was new. The block, timing cover, oilpan and main caps were the only things not new. Heck I got 2300 bucks in my transmission swap, transmission and converter were 1500 bucks lol. (actually there's another $700 to be added in there for a junk TH400 that got replaced) I don't mind the cost, just takes a little longer to get things
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Car: '85 Camaro
Engine: LG4 305
Transmission: T-5
Forgive my ignorance here... what's a 406? I assume its a bored and stroked 350. I was under the impression that 383 was as high as you could go.
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Car: '82 Z28
Engine: 350
Transmission: TH400 4,000 stall
Axle/Gears: Currie 9", 4.56 gears
Originally posted by zerotosixtyV8
ah, you didn't tell me you put that money in the tranny. lol. I've got more money in my tranny than in my motor. $525 vigilante and $1000 built th700r4!
ah, you didn't tell me you put that money in the tranny. lol. I've got more money in my tranny than in my motor. $525 vigilante and $1000 built th700r4!
Before that, I swapped over to a TH400 last year. Bought a 100 dollar TH400 core, had it rebuilt and got the swap over crossmember and torque arm from Spohn. That transmission took a dump earlier this year so I bought a really good one for 1500 bucks with a converter. Converter alone would have cost me 800 to 900 bucks new and the transmission around 3800 bucks. It's good to know racers that have fire sales The new tranny will hold up to about 1,400 hp
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Originally posted by jrg77
Forgive my ignorance here... what's a 406? I assume its a bored and stroked 350. I was under the impression that 383 was as high as you could go.
Forgive my ignorance here... what's a 406? I assume its a bored and stroked 350. I was under the impression that 383 was as high as you could go.
400 blocks have some amazingly high HP builds in them. 377, 406, 410, 415, 427, 434 can all make well over 500 HP and an equal amount of torque with the right combinations and maintain streetability well. they have a .125" bigger bore than a 350 block
lol that is nuts cartman, I wish I had that kinda cash! btw, where did you find a th400 core for $100??? what kind of converter are you running? I got my vigilante NIB from a friend for $525. Getting an HSR as an xmas gift from myself for myself rofl. should be seeing 330+ and low12-high11s on the motor with tuning!
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Car: '82 Z28
Engine: 350
Transmission: TH400 4,000 stall
Axle/Gears: Currie 9", 4.56 gears
Originally posted by zerotosixtyV8
lol that is nuts cartman, I wish I had that kinda cash! btw, where did you find a th400 core for $100??? what kind of converter are you running? I got my vigilante NIB from a friend for $525. Getting an HSR as an xmas gift from myself for myself rofl. should be seeing 330+ and low12-high11s on the motor with tuning!
lol that is nuts cartman, I wish I had that kinda cash! btw, where did you find a th400 core for $100??? what kind of converter are you running? I got my vigilante NIB from a friend for $525. Getting an HSR as an xmas gift from myself for myself rofl. should be seeing 330+ and low12-high11s on the motor with tuning!
I got the core from a friend of mine who changed his mind and went to a powerglide. He got it from the transmission shop where I had it rebuilt. Damn thing burnt up 3 times with less than a year's ammount of driving on it (behind a 305!). That's when I got the good transmission. The converter is a 9" Continental and the transmission was built by Mikes Transmission.
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Car: 87 Camaro
Engine: Chevy V8
Transmission: auto
Originally posted by dennis6
Daz, what are the cons of a BBC as for as fitment? I was steered away from it because of all the clearance issues. What fits and what don't? Any exhaust that fits without modification and major loss of ground clearance? Thanks!
Daz, what are the cons of a BBC as for as fitment? I was steered away from it because of all the clearance issues. What fits and what don't? Any exhaust that fits without modification and major loss of ground clearance? Thanks!
Daz
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Car: Still a 3rd Gen
Engine: 450HP 355
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 9" with 4.11's
I'm hittin close to the 400 mark with old school bolt on's. After i swap my cam, redo my exhaust and swap out the intake manifold for a Performer RPM i'm expecting 430-450. I'm running consistant high 12's/low 13's on a shi**y tranny. can't wait to get it all rebuilt....again.....for the 4th time....
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Originally posted by Purple82TA
I'm hittin close to the 400 mark with old school bolt on's. After i swap my cam, redo my exhaust and swap out the intake manifold for a Performer RPM i'm expecting 430-450. I'm running consistant high 12's/low 13's on a shi**y tranny. can't wait to get it all rebuilt....again.....for the 4th time....
I'm hittin close to the 400 mark with old school bolt on's. After i swap my cam, redo my exhaust and swap out the intake manifold for a Performer RPM i'm expecting 430-450. I'm running consistant high 12's/low 13's on a shi**y tranny. can't wait to get it all rebuilt....again.....for the 4th time....
especially trying to build a 500+ hp 383
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Car: 89' T/A, 00' Firehawk
Engine: 406 Roller
Transmission: TH700R4 w/2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3.23 Posi
Originally posted by pskel350
i dyno'ed at 296 rwhp with an Advanced autoparts shortblock. it isnt hard to get to 300 rwhp for pretty cheap, but after that, the $$$ really starts to add up.
especially trying to build a 500+ hp 383
i dyno'ed at 296 rwhp with an Advanced autoparts shortblock. it isnt hard to get to 300 rwhp for pretty cheap, but after that, the $$$ really starts to add up.
especially trying to build a 500+ hp 383
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Originally posted by LilJayV10
Car craft did it with the 383 crate motor with vortec heads and a 282 or 288 xtreme roller. It never ceases to amaze me the power vortec heads will make.
Car craft did it with the 383 crate motor with vortec heads and a 282 or 288 xtreme roller. It never ceases to amaze me the power vortec heads will make.
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Car: '82 Z28
Engine: 350HO
Transmission: M4
Originally posted by zerotosixtyV8
and the poorest flowing of late model design aftermarket heads (Torquers) flow slightly better as cast still, impressive for a factory head, although quite outshined by the LS1/LS6 head.
and the poorest flowing of late model design aftermarket heads (Torquers) flow slightly better as cast still, impressive for a factory head, although quite outshined by the LS1/LS6 head.
Vortec W/P torquer
.400 227 205
.500 239 221
.600 229 225
plus the torquer has bigger vavles. with the money you save buying vortecs over w/p heads, add 2.02"/1.60" vavles, then throw them on the flow bench, and see which head wins.
vortecs $480 for a pair; world/products are $760 for a pair.
for a budget head straight out of the box, vortecs CAN'T be beat. and if you talk about modified. vortecs with some bowl blending, and some work on the exhaust port, and 2.02"/1.60" vavles, are very hard to beat.
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vortec heads do produce a lot of power. they amaze me too.
however for my 383, i have decided on AFR heads and a XR288 cam. i think 500 hp is possible with that combo also
a 500 hp engine is not cheap, even with vortec heads, no matter how you look at it, plus you have to build the rest of the car to handle the power.
however for my 383, i have decided on AFR heads and a XR288 cam. i think 500 hp is possible with that combo also
a 500 hp engine is not cheap, even with vortec heads, no matter how you look at it, plus you have to build the rest of the car to handle the power.
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Car: Still a 3rd Gen
Engine: 450HP 355
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 9" with 4.11's
sweet, i might have to swap out my 492's for some P&P'd Vortecs. that's a good price. anybody know if they are any better than 492 castings ? i found these in a junk yard in the back of an old chevy van under a bunch of trash. i ran the numbers and about crapped myself
Last edited by DeathStarr89; 12-22-2003 at 01:12 PM.
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Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
I'm late posting to this topic but just thought I would share. 500hp isn't really that difficult to do NA through a 350. I'm pushing about that much (at the crank) on my stock L98 shortblock. You need halfway decent heads (mine flow about ~275cfm @ 0.600) and a good flowing cam (230+ duration). Obviously, an intake like the MiniRam is needed. Couple that with a great exhaust, stable valvetrain, and a great tune and it is extremely possible.
If you step up to a 400 block then it's going to get even easier to push about 500hp.
Tim
If you step up to a 400 block then it's going to get even easier to push about 500hp.
Tim
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