Abaddon_fallen1

How's about a turbo 6. I know there's a large niche aftermarket for buick turbo v6s. I'm thinking, other than wiring and plumbing, it would make for an interesting swap.




YES, I know that '89 Trans Ams came with a turbo 6, but this is for all of us that don't own a turbo T/A.:rockon:

RB83L69

Probably the 2nd most popular swap topic on this board, right behind a BBC.

Yes it will work. No the manifolds will not fit, they are TTA specific. The heads will also not work if you want to retain A/C, but there's some other heads off of a FWD 3.8 that work perfect.

About 99% of any swap is "wiring and plumbing". Making motor mount brackets is the easiest part.

Do a search. This subject has been discussed in exhaustive detail.

MARO-MAN

Awesome project...........you can also check out turbobuick.com for info...............I know the guys over there will not mind help you out one bit. They help me with my 85 GN all the time. Later
Nick:lala:

WickedTwinTurbo

Yes, you can use the whole long block out a GN into a 3rd GEN.If you use everything from a GN you will have an issue with the AC comp. clearance, it will hit the strut tower so you may have run a an AC delete or modify the accessory bracket and few other modifcations but yes it can be done. I have seen few with complete GN powertrain.

Good Luck
Prasad

Abaddon_fallen1

By the way, TA Buick Performance makes an all-aluminum 3.8 block. The block itself weighs only 88 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!! :rockon: :hail: Talk about weight reduction on the front end!
About the whole A/C deal, once you're rolling down the street @ 60 mph with both windows down, you really don't give a f*ck (or maybe you do, who knows?).

Abaddon_fallen1

Well, I'd rather not have that weak GN rear end and 200-R4 fragging on me when all the other go-fast goodies are on the car. Very likely a Ford 9" and either a TH400 with a gearsplitter or a highly beefed up 700-R4 with a gearsplitter (8 speeds are better than 4 )

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

The 8.5'' 10-bolt sure as hell isn't weak...not in the least

you can use the GN stuff...just ditch the AC and you'll need a custom downpipe made. Also the GN harness will work but you'll have to splice it into your stock harness

I'm in the middle of writing up some type of tech article for this swap...stay tuned

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

ready to shell out $3500 for the block?? lol It's not even in full production yet...they're taking their dear old time with it...

Unless you're pushing major power the stock 109 block will be fine...if you're that worried get some billet main caps and a girdle for extra peace of mind.

88Camaro350

I thought about the swap for awhile. Until I relized I couldn't find a busted up GN anywhere in my area. No parts, no swap.

It is a pretty cool swap thought. Would be pretty fast with a few mods.

Down at thirdgen nationals a TTA raced a mustang GT. The mustang looked pretty modified and was running some big sticky tires. The TTA ran like a 8.2 in the 1/8th and the mustang ran a 8.1 it was close. I'm pretty sure the TTA was stock. And had street tires.

running in the 8's at that crappy track was real good for street cars. The track was like ice.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

there were two TTA's there...once was far from stock, the other one was relatively stock...I assume the stockish TTA is the one that ran..the other was a mid 11 second car

Guest

Weak 2004R huh?

I've seen more 700R4's blow up in my time.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

i'd take a build 200 over a 700 any day of the week...


But don't ask me why I'm running a built up 700

BigMike92Z

I think I'm going to look into doing the swap too.

Shouldn't have any trouble running a th350, would i?... just need the tci adapter plate, correct? overdrive and lockup are not a big deal to me because it's NOT a daily driver.

ill probably askt his over @ turbobuick as well, but are there any differences between the 84/85 motors and the 86/87 GN motors. I understand the later ones were intercooled from the factory, but aside from that were there any internal engine differences? I was planning to go aftermarket on the intercooler anyways so if the 84/85 is the same I can just pick up one of those.

Any help is appreciated.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Mike, you can always run a BOP Th350 and not a Chevy TH350.


I'd still with the 86-87 period. There are a lot of other differences. The turbo, ECM, wiring harness(i i think) and a few other things

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

why not have the 200r4 built right guys?
and retain at least some od

Pleanty of fast buicks still keep a 2004r

Heres a nice gn thred also.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=203086

MARO-MAN

I would definatly go with the 86/87 stuff..........just more vendors out there to help with your project. Take a look at the 84/85 engine compartment and then look at the 86/87 engine compartment. The 86/87 is much more user friendly. The turbo is up front and not on top of the intake. I havent worked on a 86/87, but I would think that it would be easier then my 85 GN. The bolt on possiblities with the 86/87's seem to be easier and better, because the intercooler is already in the mix. I love my hot air car though..........or at least it was a one point. No matter you go with 84/85 or 86/87 you cant go wrong.

Just throw on a adj. wastegate rod. A half tank of 110. Turn up the boost. Have a scan tool. And you should be putting most cars to shame. I am debating this for my Trans Am.......sometime in the future. Love your project!!

MARO-MAN

The wiring harnesses are different between the 84/85 and 86/87, because of were the turbo sits. The 84/85 runs infront of the engine instead of on the firewall.

The 84/85 stock turbo is smaller. A stock 86/87 turbo is good for mid 12's I have heard. A 84/85 turbo will not get you in the 12's, low 13's. Lots of boost!!

Go 86/87 you will be much happier when it is said and done. Dont get me wrong I love my car, but if I was to get another one....it would be a 86/87. Besides then I would have one of each......

Nick

BigMike92Z

transbrake.

not confidence enough to run one on a 200 or 700.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

the stock turbo has gone into the 11's. I know 2 people personally that have done it

You run it on a 200, just better make sure you get some billet parts in there...there is a REALLY good 200-4r write up on the tranny board on turbobuick.com

On 700, forget it..I don't care how built up it is it won't take a T-brake just because of the way it was designed....

I'm sticking with my 700 for now since it's built up...My concern is the steep first gear..might be too quick to allow the turbo to spool up before having to shift into 2nd...we'll see come springtime.

BigMike92Z

eh, ill stick with the th350 or 400. i just don't like the idea of spending money on something with OD and having it go south when im only driving the car to the track and out on the weekends 1 or 2 nights.

i do agree that the 200 can be built to take it. just not worth the money for me.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

well since your speaking cost effective in mind no doubt a TH350 or 400 is a better choice. My buddy has about $1400 wrapped up in his including the converter it's held up to 10 second passes just fine

MARO-MAN

Is this anyones car on here........do you guys know?

Featured car of the month over at gnttpe.org

http://www.gnttype.org/carofthemonth...omdetails.html

Later Nick

PETE

iTrader: (1)

Hey fly why not pick up a 2.77 rear instead of 3.23's. That'll make your 1st gear multiplication an 8.4762 instead of 9.88. That should help hold the aluminum drum together in that 700 run deep outta the hole into second before hitting third a little before the traps. Something you may wanna think about.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

damn, you're still alive!! lol

nah, I'm not gonna go through all that...new gears, new carrier...if anything I'd switch trannies after the 700 blows up lol

PETE

iTrader: (1)

Spent most of the year working 1400 hours of o/t . Also don't frequent here as much as I used to. Spend a lot of time on tb.com and www. turbobuicks.com Magna section. #3 blew and am now getting a rebuild some ported heads and intake springs new dp new turbo wg, converter went in a 100 miles ago. Still waiting on assembly. Prolly trw forged shou;ld put it at a little under 9 to 1 and with 20 psi hoping for bottom 11's

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

cool. Similar to what I'm doing

ported heads, 214/210 cam, ATR 3'' DP and external wastegate(coming next week) the TE60 turbo I have sitting right here, big necks added to the intercooler and some other things

Going for high 11's on good 'ol 94..we'll see

PETE

iTrader: (1)

haven't decided on cam maybe a 208 204 some good work to the heads. In the process of being done currently. A new tc may be in order after the work is done. I am gonna rip out the bumpersspare anything with removable weight and shoot for the moon.

PETE

iTrader: (1)

shoot me your aim address when i get it back providing there isn't 4 feet of snow on the ground(seems like it already). Maybe we can meet up, got a buddy with TTA343 we can go terrorize some ricers!

BigMike92Z

PETE, are you from Virginia?

PETE

iTrader: (1)

No I'm in NJ. I believe there are 4 TTA's in NJ that I know of, maybe more.


It's gonna be 39* out tonight great turbo weather. Wish I had mine back!

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

39* makes turbos happy lol


ah well, I'm stuck waiting until next spring

BigMike92Z

dang, yeah i wish i had the money to get my project rolling and finished soon. weather is just starting to cool down here in florida.

PETE

iTrader: (1)

do some searching you do not need as much money as you think. I know of someone in particular running a n/a crank,rods, and hyper pistons(i believe) well into the 11's. It's not about what it is built with as much as how it is built and ran. Even a 750hp nascar smallblock will blowup if it isn't tune correctly. The best advice ever given on a turbo buick engine is don't worry about anythin in the engine except airflow. The heads are a huge bottleneck. If you can open up the intake slightly(all that's needed), Fully port the exhaust runner, cut down the valve guides and smooth and polish the chambers the engine will make the same power at12psi that it did at 20 psi because there's less restriction. Boost is just a measurement of the restriction inside the intake tract.

BigMike92Z

i just meant i need some preliminary funds to get the ball rolling. hell, i've just started looking into the swap and decided it's what i want to do. gotta pull my old engine/tranny and look for the new motor.

i did plan on having the heads ported/polished and i will look into doing the intake as well now that you mention it. would you recommend putting on a main girdle while i have things torn apart?

thank you for the advice.
mike

PETE

iTrader: (1)

The problem witha girdle in an Fbody is that the girdle pushes the oil pan lower towards the ground in turn causing interferance with the k member. The only people I know that can fit a girdle have a tubular kmember.

If I was planning on big power numbers from the stock 109 block I would do the following(in regards to money it all depends on how much you wanna spend).
1. Billet caps would be a must.
2. Fully ported heads(especially the exhaust runner), 5 angle valve job, ferrara valves,LT1 springs and polished chambers. Fully ported heads would prolly fetch around $1500
3. ATR makes a very good upgraded connecting rod.
4. Cast crank(turbo cranks come with rolled fillets, just need to polish the journals).
5. High volume oil pump.
6. Finally take it to someone reputible to assemble it. If the clearance on the mains or rods are off there goes all your time and money in a short period of time. I won't yell out some names for you to check with as far as assembly, but you can search the tb site and you should come up with 4 or 5 names to speak to.

My engine is in the process of being rebuilt with trw's, stock rods, stock TTA crank, decent port work and valve job w/new springs. A slightly different turbo than my old combo. Car started out last year as almost a 14 sec car. With about 1200 in upgrades and replacintg factory missing or broken parts it got down to 12.7 @ 114mph at 18 psi(low boost for some people).


You could opt to save a few bucks and not go all out on the heads just have the chambers polish and definately some bowl work. Any good tr head guy will have varying stages of porting along with prices. Stock rods hold up very well some say well into the 500hp range. You could use them just get em magged and reconditioned. Can't skimp on the oil pump. As far as pistons forgings are a definite need. TRW's are very popular, inexpensive, and hold up very well. However they are very heavy compared to the other high dollar pistons. I was told that the pin is where the TRW stacks up most of it's weight.

Concentrate on the heads and assembly. Once you have the foundation you can build on it later. AS far as injectors go. Some have had luck with the 42.5lb/hr(aka 009's), However I would recommend going with MSD 50's. The smaller the engine the larger the injector will have to be for that given cylinder. Then once you get some time under your belt with a smaller turbo you can mouve up to a larger one and not worry about your injectors till you get to the big shaft turbos. Good luck and happy hunting!!!!