rockfourone

ok soon i will have an 85 iroc with a 305tpi that blows smoke and needs to be rebuilt. BUT......... my dad has his head up his a$$ and wants me to put a v6 in it while its being rebuilt. i know i know, it makes no sense. i dont want to degrade my iroc by putting a sh*tsix in it but i have to. im looking for advice on the most powerful and torquey v6 i can get my hands on and what needs to be done to put it in. it wont be permanent, just until i rebuild my TPI. im thinking about a 4.3 from an s10. will it work? any advice on this topic would be greatly appriciated. e-mail rockfourone@aol.com thanks

ATOMonkey

That is a dumb idea. None of the electronics are going to work right. If you get anything other than the 4.3 then you need a new tranny. I think the 4.3 is a straight bolt in, but I could be wrong there. The 4.3 is a 5.7 less the front two cylinders. My advice is buy a beater 4 banger and just park the f-bod. Save a lot of time, headache, and money that way.

ROCKNRODS

Huge waste of time and money that could be spent doing the rebiuld!

know_bull88

I agree with ATO. I was faced with the same situation and It was just a big waste of time/money IMO. I just parked the car saved my pennies and got a beater for $300 at an auction in which I still have today and put the engine I wanted in my Camaro.

1 engine + 1 weekend =2 times less headache

LOL

rockfourone

i know its a dumb idea. i hate to ruin a good iroc by putting a v6 in it but my dad doesnt want me to have a v8 right away and theres nothing that i can do to change his mind. so its either i put a sh*tsix in it or i cant drive it. give me some more ideas

RB83L69

Who's paying for it?

If you're paying for it, let it sit, and accumulate your money to do what you want to do.

If he's paying for it, do it, drive it, and let him realize what a bonehead move it is when he sees the bill.

AdmiralNahohkta

If I had no choice but to drop in a six, then I'd for sure go with the biggest badest brute I could find--the MEGA 4.3. It would have every hard-core small block component I could cram in it. 11 to 1 compresion, aluminum pistons, bullet proof rods, heads with mass porting work, and a sheet metal intake. It would lope like a crippled vet and belch eye searing fumes from dual 3" pipes. Your dad's going to have to pay for that!

AJ_92RS

COOL!!!!

Now maybe there'll be at least 1 IROC in the world that I can beat. :sillylol:

Although, I had a '94 S10 work truck that only had P/S and P/B. No A/C, P/W, nothin'. But it was a 165 HP, 4.3L, 5 spd. Shortly after I bought my "new found" Camaro I took it to the drag strip to get a baseline ET. The best I got was a 17.1xx.

My friend ran a 16.563 ET with a '99 Hyundai Elantra that same night. I wanted to walk home.
He would not shut up about it either. So the next time we went, I took the S10.

With no muffler, K&N air filter, air cleaner lid flipped upside down (IE, open element) and 180K miles on the truck, I ran a 16.519 ET!!!!

I was happy because then I got to say, "Your rice burner got beat by a truck!!!" Well he just turned that around and said, "Yea, well so did your Camaro." I said, "Yea, but that's MY truck that beat it, and beat you to."

Anyway, it's gonna be a lot bigger dent in the old man's wallet if you go to a V6. Plus the insurance company ain't gonna care. They'll still charge you for having an IROC.

So my answer is :nono:

AJ

rockfourone

ok i dont think you guys understand................. im paying for this, not my dad. there is no way in h*ll he is going to let a 16yr old have a 305tpi. the only reason he is letting me get this iroc is cuz its blown and i agreed to put a 6 in it. otherwise, no iroc for me. i have to "prove myself" with the v6 first. i appriciate your input, (and to a degree, your criticisim, i think its gay too). im just asking, is it possible, and what is the best engine

AdmiralNahohkta

It hurts just saying this, but for low buck six you're stuck with a...2.8 (of course I'd never do that, or even admit to saying any such blasphomy). Only slightly better is a performance version of the 3.1. If I catch anyone using a 3.1 from an Isuzu Rodeo they will be found guilty of treason.

How knowedgable is your dad? I bet that a 350 could impersonate a six in front of a non-gearhead, or not.

AJ_92RS

Well here's a NEW 305 that will work with your TPI.

It's $1525.

I don't see a 4.3L (262cid) on their webpage. Maybe someone can point you to a website that has one.

But here's a Rebuilt 305 for $889 plus $100 core deposit.

Then there's this Rebuilt 4.3L (262cid) for $846 plus $125 core deposit.

That's $989 dollars for a 305 V8 and $971 for a 262 V6. Why wouldn't we critizise you for that?

That's the same amount of money for a smaller, less powerful motor, and that's just the start. Then you gotta buy an intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, TBI, an ECM for TBI, all the wiring/harnesses, etc.

It's gonna cost YOU (not your dad. Sorry for assuming) a lot more money for a SLOWER car, and probably won't be any better on gas, and (as I said once) is still gonna rape you on insurance.

I suppose you MIGHT be able to pick up an OK 4.3L motor at the junk yard for ~$500, but just make sure you can get all the above mentioned parts with it. And I mean ALL OF THEM!!!

AJ

mrt89rs

hey dude sorry for the bull ****
where do you live? if you live anywhere in the tucson az area i can get you a 305 v8 with 170k that still runs good for less then 200 bucks but maybe 100 i don't know it belongs to a friend so i don't want to say a price.

but if you really have to go with a six find a grand natianal and put the tiwn turbo v6 with 250 hp, i think that would be the best v6 you can put in an iroc with out down granding it and it would kick some *** too

logikal6785

the GN's made 250hp, out of the factory, on a single turbo. a modded, twin aftermarket turbo GN should, i think, make no less than about 400 hp running mild boost. just my $.02

ATOMonkey

If power is his problem, then you can put a V8 in there that won't make more than 130 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque. It even came stock in our cars. It's the LG4. The biggest dog of an engine ever made. Putting in a low power v8 is no problem. A little tiny peanut cam and a little bitty 2bbl Holley on top of a smog manifold will keep it from going pretty much anywhere. Then you can put all of the wonderful TPI stuff back on when you're done fooling around. You could also put a 283 in it. That's only .3L bigger than a 4.3. You can make that engine a dog too. No offense to your dad, but he doesn't sound like he knows anything about cars. My grandma's 4.3 S-10 beat the pants off my 305 LG4 firebird.

AdmiralNahohkta

Putting a crappy V8 in is more of a outrage than a weak 2.8. The best defense for rockfourone is to let his dad read this thread. Then he'll see the iniquity of his actions and repent. Otherwise our lone rocking member will have to scrap together his funds and instal an affordable six option. Gues what's in door number one?

Drastius

I agree with the LG4 idea, i'm sure you can find one dirty cheap somewhere, I can't get rid of mine no matter what the price.

rockfourone

guys i really appriciate your input and i value your opinion but i still dont think you understand. hes opposed to the "v8 culture" as he calls it. i could have a 400hp v6 and he wouldnt care but if i had a 120hp v8 then he considers it a "performance" engine just because it has 8cyl. there is no way he is going to let me get a v8. if it has 8cyl, i cant get it. it has to have 6. its really not that big of a deal. once i rebuild my 305 its going right back in and that sh*tsix is going back to the junkyard where it belongs. i just have to "prove" myself with a smaller engine.

Lurch

Why EXACTLY does your dad want you to put in a V6?

Do you live in the snow belt or an area that is known to get excessive amounts of rain? Read less power equals less chance of spining out. Sorry sounds good on paper but it takes virtualy no power to spin tires in the rain and snow or to cause your car to spin out. My moms 94 V6 (140hp 3800lb)Cougar and 98 F-150(200hp 4400lb) are both examples of that with little effort, good tires and weight in back you can still spin out. I've had both dead sideways before.

Thinks you'll go around squelling tires or doing burnouts? Sorry even little 4 bangers can do that also see above.

You won't be able the go realy fast ie: 100mph+. Thats more gearing and arodynamics than power. Every member here has had there car to triple digit speeds. I've seen v6's do 140+ and V8s 160+. My moms less powerfull car (the Couger) by 30hp 55ft/lb of torque will go 10mph faster than my Camaro because of the speed limiter.

It'll be discorage you from driving agressivly or showing of. Thats just up to you.

It will be cheaper. Covered earlier same gas mileage, same insurance. It'll costas much if not more to put in a v6 that It'll cost you to rebuild your motor. And in the end you'll have put your money into some thing you going to keep. Plus it will make your car worth more $$$ instead of making it worth jacksh!t.

Offer your dad a comprimise. Let you rebuild the V8. And to slow the car down and make it "safer" until you get to be a driver you will run the best rain/snow/summer tires ect. you can afford. You will leave extra weight in the back of the car for traction. See if you can get a custom chip made to limit your top speed . Of course offer him a test drive to test it. And as a last ditch effort check into the parental monitors or whatever there called. I read about them about a year or so in Motor Trend. They measure the top and average speed and throttle useage. And they may have have there own speed limiter to.

Also show him the tech data https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml
and explain or show him how many V6s have as much or more power than your V8

If you can't convince him otherwise check into a Grand National motor. Stock they can out run many a V8 with some well chosen mods these succers can scoot.

Sorry for the long post.

Good luck.

92blue

iTrader: (1)

What is it exactly that your dad dislikes about V8s?

alohamike

get a 4.3. Or, look for a 3.8 out of a 4th gen. They have 200+ hp and decent torque, too. The v6 is lighter than the v8 so you'll save some weight. Also, since the engine sits further back in the engine bay your handling will be much better so if you ever get into autocross, you'll really enjoy that benefit. Plus there are many performance parts available for the 3.8 you can use. It's not so bad if that's all you're Dad will let you do. At least he didn't make you get a four cylinder!

Jay87Z

iTrader: (2)

He probably doesn't trust his 16 year old son with too much power under his foot.

Makes perfect sence. My parents did the same thing. My brother had a Celica for a year before he got his IROC, and I had an LG4 for a year before they let me do an engine swap.




But this V6 into an IROC is just retarded. You are just throwing away money. Tell your dad a little no ***** LG4 will be just as safe to a new driver as a V6. There isn't much 150hp is going to do in a 3500lbs car. Most guys I knew that borrowed thier parents cars in high school were driving cars faster than my Z28 :sillylol:

logikal6785

lol tell me about it. i take our volvo wagon to 120 at least three times a week but in my GTA i was afraid to speed by 5 bc cops look for sports cars ... although i broke that once when i was almost late for a communion - i roared all the way across town @ 135 in the 'bird and hoped that the angels were headed to my friend's communion too

(so far, that's been my personal peak for teenage stupidity ... in that car :sillylol: )

AdmiralNahohkta

If a six is your destiny, then so be it! You need to get us on track: What are you able/willing to spend? What is your experience level? Do you have access to junkyards and local conections? How sano do you want your swap to be (down and dirty or clean and tidy)? What have I mised?

alohamike

I just remembered a question and answer in the Professor Overdrive column of the Summit catalog a few months ago where someone asked about building a 3.8. If you don't get the catalog, you can go on-line to summitracing.com and look it up. He listed all the parts you'd need to make some good power. Don't be afraid to be different...what's your budget? If you do good with the 3.8, maybe Dad'll let you graduate to a 350 in a few years.

84TAProject

I had the same situation. My father is a gearhead, and I bought my 2.8 with the expectations of getting a V-8. It turned out to be too much work. I only got the car under promise to get a V-8, and I couldnt do it. So I waited, and was under explicit orders from a higher power (mother) to not get another car as I talked of getting one. Well, my father who I felt lied to me about not being able to swap (I didnt know much about cars then, I assumed it was easy and he was trying to keep me from going fast). Well last winter, I discussed the idea of a project car, and me and my father went out, and within an hour we bought a red and rust firedbird with a 305 that wouldnt start. We fixed the 305, and built the 350 for the car and swapped. It was definetly a learning experience and now I am looking for bigger. BTW, I had to prove myself. Of course driving the maro for 2 years, got pulled over once, the bird for 6 months, got pulled over 3 times with a ticket for racing.

You can move up later. I suggest you go find a beater and not go through the aggravation of throwing the 6 in there. 6 cylinder fbodies can be had for 7-800 dollars in driveable shape. Just look at it this way, you just got your project car early. Just do what little body work it may need now.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

a twin turbo GN motor, ok do u realize how much that would cost???? we're talking 7-10K


a single turbo is fine for how fast anyone wants to go

please don't give advice if you don't know what you're talking about ..sorry to sound like an ******* but don't get the kids hope up


anyway...


If you made the deal that you'd put a V6 in then u have to do it..its sooooo *** backwards but a deal nonetheless.

I hope your dad realizes that its going to cost more $ to put a V6 in than rebuild the 305

I'd just park it, i know it sounds stupid and all but putting a V6 in makes for more headaches. Being 16 and having a LB9 is dangerous in your dad's eyes, which i can see the point, but ANY 16 year old driving can be dangerous, PERIOD.

If for some reason you decide to do a turbo 3.8 swap myself and a few people can help Then you won't WANT to swap a V8 in

Like i said before i'd really look into getting a beater to gain some driving experience, then once your dad feels comfortable with your driving build a 350 or get your 305 rebuilt

PONTIACGTA1988

tell your dad he aint supposed to smoke the seeds..anyway just kiddin...tell him..your gonna need a new computer maybe a new exhaust,,tell him a v 6 aint compatible with that camaro..and that it aint emission legal..man we cant let you do this...to much damn work

irocz

I don't think you have many real options considering the HUGE PITA this swap would be. Not to flame you, but here are your options:
1. sell the IROC and buy a Hyundai
2. tell your dad to blow himself and get a V8
3. wait 'til you're 18 and can do whatever you damn well please with your money

Riley's35089rs+

GEO!!!

PONTIACGTA1988

GEO METRO 3 CYL.

camarocket

buy a Yugo, you'll have not problems about speeding tickets...

jwfirebird

iTrader: (2)

you said you just want to prove yourself so find a wrecked f body with a complete 2.8 and trans, throw it in and wait. you'll be better off (if you cant speed you cant get a ticket)dont modify it either save your money and build a 350 while your waiting. once you get the go ahead you should be way faster w/ a 350 than the 305. for the record the 305 isnt much faster than a 2.8 mpfi motor just louder

or just tell him you found out it wont pass emisions ins. without the original smog equipment

PONTIACGTA1988

oh oh here come the 305 owners...loud too...no pun intended

rockfourone

its shaping up now. i told him what a pain it would be to swap it out and hes reconsidering. these posts are a large part of what pushed him over the edge. thanks guys

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Damn…

I don’t think that there is a cheap way to do a V6, assuming that you want something reliable and not a cobbled piece of junk (you could always rip apart a couple of junkyard cars and do it cheap… assuming that you’ve got some skills and patience). Mainly because you’ll get stuck buying an engine, tranny, all the front engine accessories, wiring harness, ecm, y-pipe… and pretty much unless you reproduce the factory setup (with the possible exception of some exempt performance parts, mixing and matching factory parts won’t do it) you won’t be emissions legal.

Personally, if someone defined that as a task for me I’d lean toward something like the 4.3 that they just built in Hot Rod. Reasonably priced parts and good power (I think they got it to about 300 hp using mostly stock parts). I’d probably install later vortech truck heads if there was a good intake to run with them. That is the only V6 that will bolt to the tranny and the accessories will bolt to (it’s basically a Chevy 350 minus 3 cylinders). You’re kinda stuck with the induction, there isn’t a good answer there unless you go with the older heads and a carb. Otherwise you’re custom making stuff. It still wouldn’t be emissions legal, even if you took one straight out of an S10 truck (never came in that chassis).

Really, build up a good 305, small cam (one of the 2 early factory cams, the later LO3 cam, or even some of the really mild replacements) and you’ll have roughly a 150hp 3600# car which will get low to mid 30’s mph on the highway, (my ’83 with a 305 and decent headers/exhaust has pulled down 33-36mph highway, and 16-20 city) feel nice to drive around but not really go anywhere when you floor it. Add to that that just the engine would cost about the same or less then the v6 and you wouldn’t have to pay for all the extras to make it work like a transmission…

Or sell it and get something like a j-body (cavilier/sunfire) with a 4cyl. Still 150hp but in a car that’s 1000# lighter.

Honestly, I think I understand the intension that your dad has with the idea (keep you from killing yourself), but the unfortunate reality is that, you will do some ‘stupid’ things and secondly, if you’re intent on doing really stupid things you will be just as able to kill yourself and others in a Volvo wagon then your camaro (probably more likely in some Volvos, some are pretty quick). From experience (since I was a young car guy not too long ago), I’d say that you’re less likely to do something stupid in something like the Iroc with a V8 if you really like the car (you’ll be more concerned about it and you’ll attract much more attention from the cops). The alternative, something that you don’t like as much, well admit it we’ve all seen people do exceedingly stupid things in/to cars that they didn’t like.

This might sound like I’m suggesting encouraging just what he wants to prevent, but maybe you or he should look up the local autocross club and head out to a race or 2. Autocross probably will teach you more about controlling your car at ‘street’ speeds in a safe environment then just about anything that I can think of. It tends to be cheap also.

rockfourone

thats a good point about the cops being attracted to it. my dad has 3 MGs. (little british sports car) i always do the speed limit and ive still had cops follow me for miles. thanks for the advice

nbn792

rockfourone, myself and my father are really into little british sportscars. we have a friend who turbo charged a 5 bearing mgb 4 cylinder... lets just say a little horsepower goes a long way in a car that ways less then 1 ton.... the 5 bearing engines are built like a brick **** house, in fact im pretty sure theyre stronger then a four bolt main chevy, i accidently spun a bearing around 8500 rpm b/c i wasnt paying attention shifting off the highway, on a stock motor. no big deal, dropped the pan replaced the bearings, i dont know any other car that can handle that kinda abuse and be driving the next day.

racereddy20

sorry man but i say sell it and buy a 4 or 6 banger beater. Or park it and buy another beater. Once you've proven yourself then drop a new 350 or 305 into it (I say 350). I own two camaros right now. I have a 305 tbi and a 2.8l v6. The 305 is a dog and the v6 is a spineless jellyfish. Why are you going to ruin a roc that way? Hate to sound like a hater but I just dont get your justification of why you should spend countless hours and money on a crappy swap. Buy a beater everone on this site probably has at least one. I owned a 89 celica before my camaro and it was probably just as fast as the TBI (no pun intended). It was a five speed and made countless trips to all my hang out spots. I loved that car because it was like a little go kart. I lost that car to a stupid driver that didnt know how to give up the right of way to another driver. I'm going to swap in a 350 into the 305 and i'm parting the 6 out now. When the 350 is ready I'm going to park the 305 and buy a $300 car to get to and from everywhere. Dont waste your time or money. BUY ANOTHER CAR!

I also say f-it buy a honda civic. I dont mean soup it up, I mean drive it till it falls apart. My friend had a 93 civic that ran 324,000 mi before it stopped passing emissions tests. They get good gas milage and all the chicks your age will think your the *** of cars. (why is it all the 16-23yr old chicks think hondas and eclipses are the fastest things on the road?). And in the mean time save up some cash for a bad motha!:lala:

Riley's35089rs+

Great advice above,,,

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

If it's your car tell him no. You have to change motor mounts and Transmissions. It would be retarded to do so. Not to mention ECU and everything else. And then you would change it back again. Screw that.

mrt89rs

just buy a beater dude and save all the money you would spend on that bull $hit swap and put it into a 350 or some thing better. it's the only way out.

rockfourone

now hes probably going to let my keep my 305. these posts really made a difference in his decision. thanks guys, i owe you

Riley's35089rs+

now maybe we can talk him into a 350.....

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

How about a 502 crate motor? It will bolt right to the motor mounts and tranny...

Xenodrgn

Sorry man, park the iroc and spend the money on a Civic... don't do that to an IROC, ****in waste of time and money...


Tell your dad to shove it, then build a 350 for it..

<-- is doing that...

CamaroDriver

But his car came with a 305. Better he do that than a 4.3L V6 like his dad originally wanted him to.

mrt89rs

rockfourone,
so your dad is going to let you put a 305 in your car after all?

so where do you live at dude?

racereddy20

yeah rocfourone wheres the update man?

87Formula391S/C

iTrader: (1)

I'm glad your dad's letting you keep the 305,It will save you a lot of headaches an a ton of greaf.

sam

food for thought,
when i was 16 my first car was a 69 trans am 455 4sd bought by me.my dad worried too i put lots a money an time in the car an i had no problem driving it i didnt wreck it he did LMAO.

firechicken305

Build a 400 small block, hide it uner your mattress, then swap it in when he's out of town lol:lala: