Camarodude1987

I have a 1986 Iroc that has a carbureted 355 in it. I kept the ecm to control the distributor and torque converter lock up. My dad did not realize I had the battery hooked up and put the alternator to ground while fitting belts (yeah I know). Car had all kinds of power before this, we couldnt get it to run after this happened, fried the distributor so I got an hei vacuum advance distributor and now it will start but it's acting funny. It dies when you put it in gear and you have to start it from neutral, when you put it in reverse it won't go anywhere then you put it back in drive then to reverse it will back up with no problem. It also has like no power whatsoever now (feels like i'm driving an old vw). The only things plugged into the ecm at the time of the incident were distributor and torquw converter. I have a theory on why the car is acting funny now, and can someone please correct me if I'm wrong or tell me if I'm on to something, I believe the torque converter solenoid is keeping the converter locked at all times (even with it not plugged in at all) I think the solenoid is stuck open at all times. Trans had no problems before this incident. Sorry if this was a long read I appreciate any and all feedback. Trans is a stock 86 700r4 with about 30,000 miles on it, if the lock up is the problem im thinking about going to a hydraulic lock up any advice on that too?

Camarodude1987

over one hundred views and noone has any advice come on someone please help me out

8t2 z-chev

did your dad ground the alternator to the engine or the body?if was
grounded to car body,the engine to body(or batt.neg. to body) ground
may have gotten burnt.For lack of power may just be ignition timing is
wrong after the distributor swap.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

If the convertor was locked up , the engine would stall as soon as you put it in gear, same as dropping the clutch with no revs on a stick car

The lockup is hydraulic already , the electrically operated solenoid controls the fluid flow
You don't need the ECM for TCC;
can use a manual switch or install a switch in the 4th gear port of the valve body so the lockup happens as soon as you go into O/d

Camarodude1987

it got put to the engine, i swapped the distributor in an attempt to regain power, it had no power with the distributor in it after the incident

Camarodude1987

its electronically controlled solenoid lock up, i was thinking about going with one of those hydraulic kits that replaces the solenoid its a check valve and spring

TreeFiddy

The tcc doesn't lock in 1st, so can't affect the idle.

What carb do you have? You say you have an ecm and therefore presumably cc qjet, but swapped to a non cc vac distributor. Why? That's your problem right there.

Camarodude1987

no that is not the problem it is a non ecm controlled q jet, its a remanufactured unit from jegs. Before the hot to ground incident occured this car had all kinds of power none it has none. the ecm is completely out of the picture at this point. it was however a tpi car originally

kauboy

Camarodude1987

ignition timing is fine and set correctly. I am going to look into the grim possibility that it jumped a tooth on the timing gear. Seems unlikely because its a fresh engine with about 40 miles on it and a cloyes double roller timing chain set, but in the process of trying to get it to run with the original distributor after the hot to engine ground incident we did backfire it pretty hard a few times. Also the only wire that got burnt was the one going from the alternator to battery, it actually caught on fire, I spent a whole 2 days chasing every wire on the car making sure nothing else was burnt or going to ground

kauboy

Just saying to check all your ground wires lots of times when you ground a large gauge wire it will actually burn the ground wires back of the cylinder head, engine to body ground wires etc. This can actually damage transmissions, shifter cables, parking brake cables, throttle cables, and a cause a lot of seemingly unrelated problems. This happens when the ground circuit is drawn through the cables instead of the regular ground wires.

TreeFiddy

So hang on, confused. You had a tpi, then you swapped in a non cc qjet but "I kept the ecm to control the distributor and torque converter lock up."

The ecm would have been doing neither of these things at this point, due to lack of sensor signals from the tpi.

Then you had your shorting incident. Which should have at most fried the pos cable from the alt to the batt, and one or more of the main grounds. Certainly not going to make it jump timing teeth somehow.

Then you swapped in a different distributor.

Seems to me your performance issues are distributor related; the timing curve is bound to be different.

Camarodude1987

no matter how I adjust the distributor it will not run properly, it has a standard hei vacuum advance set up retard it just a small amount it dies when you put it in gear and give it a little gas, advance it just a little bit and idle is way way high. I think the reason it jumped a tooth is because after I fixed the cable that caught on fire, we tried to get it to run with the stock distributor, apparently the stock distributor got fried and we backfired the engine about 8 times very hard. It was also my understanding that the lock up and distributor works with the gauge cluster, when the ecm "sees" a certain speed (I have a sensor on the back of my speedo) it sends 12 volts to the solenoid and locks up the converter, this may not be the case for the distributor, but I was pretty sure thats how the tcc works.

TreeFiddy

Can you then drop the idle with the carb idle screw?

Seems unlikely a 40 mile old timing chain could possibly jump a tooth, unless it's made out of cheese and stretched that much already.

To lock the tcc, the ecm needs vss input, but also requires input from the engine temp sensor and tps afaik. Probably the map sensor too.

Camarodude1987

even when i advance the timing and back it off with the idle screw it still has no power, the carburetor is new and the distributor is new. We back fired this engine incredibly hard about 8- 12 times it backfired so hard that it blew apart a cardboard box that was about 2 feet back from the exhaust tip. its a cloyes double roller timing chain that was put on when the engine was rebuilt

kauboy

It's just about impossible for the timing chain to jump unless you got a worn out original nylon gear sprocket.

kauboy

The tcc will lock in any gear if it is malfunctioning. If it dies when you drop it in gear no matter how high you raise the idle it probably is locking up. Put a video up we could probably help you more if we see and hear what the car is doing.

TreeFiddy

Possibly, but I can't see how shorting your alt and changing the dist would cause the tranny to simultaneously develop an internal hydraulic fault with the tcc fluid circuit. Could have happened coincidentally I guess.

Basically we have a car here which was running fine and then had a distributor change, and the new timing situation that goes with it. I'd still be betting the answer is somewhere in that.

Edit: Not something basic like the wire order is it?

Camarodude1987

lol nope not the wire order I'm not that stupid lol and I had the timing and carburetor adjusted by a professional sprint car engine builder thats has 50 years experience, still no change. I really didn't think it was the timing chain, but i just brought that up as an idea. ive seen an engine backfire before and jump time, but it had 200,000 miles on it. I'm thinking transmission. Is it possible that when the alternator went to ground that it put too much power to the solenoid and is now stuck open. After all it has just some plastic a spring and an o ring it could have shot too far open and be stuck open. That's the only thing I can think of, unless the transmission went bad for no reason (seems unlikely, it only has like 40,000 miles on it and I'm only putting out 360 hp and ive never floored it or gave it hell) I will get a video up asap, I took the fuel pump off to put on my daily driver so I'll have to get another. Thanks to everyone for the help keep the ideas coming please

Camarodude1987

also on a side note I pulled the distributor out of the camaro earlier and put it in my daily driver as a test (84 c/10 2wd th350, 305 out of an 86 trans am with an edelbrock carburetor and intake, no sensors or efi stuff left, 130,000) I put that distributor in the truck advanced it just a little bit and it runs fine, even smokes the tires. So camaro has mystery problem did a compression test has good compression.

TreeFiddy

Heh I sure am, I'm often doing stuff like that to myself


That's not how a short works. A short doesn't 'inject' power into random circuits like the tcc solenoid. It does the opposite, and makes current NOT flow thru the circuits that it's supposed to, and take a shorter path between batt pos and neg. Hence 'short circuit'. It can only electrically damage components that remain in the current path, and get an overdose of current - in this case the batt, cables and connectors.

Anyway, the tcc solenoid is locked out hydraulically in 1st. You can energise the solenoid all you like, but the tcc will remain un-locked until the trans shifts to 2nd. The tcc can't affect the idle (unless there's some freak hydraulic tranny damage as mooted above).

Camarodude1987

yeah i know how a short works.. but it also blew out my dome light and all my dash lights when this happened. it was weird

RRUHL

Ive been having tons of issues fixed my main one cracked fuel line in tank replaced and regulator tps idles strong now alil high can rev the h*** out oif it in park but as soon as i put it in drive instant kill or reverse is worse its like it slams in reverse and dies instantly....its a 91 L98 350 in a 92 rs changed the kick down cable and ecm with swap ohh speedo doesnt work guages fine idk if there related also rebuilt tpi and manifold any ideas one please??? really need to get it back on the road and am at a loss on ideas

Camarodude1987

timing could be out of adjustment and its not a kick down cable its a throttle valve... totally different. that being out of adjustment could cause your problem. plenty of youtube tutorials on how to adjust the throttle valve cable. not sure about your speedo problem

RRUHL

Yea i realized after the post long day just read an article and pretty sure that my issue like its already in gear during idle slamming into gear and shutting off

RRUHL

i adjusted the tv "way off" still no luck then out of curiosity I unpluged the sensor towards the front on the drivers side and the issue was gone shifted into gear without shuting off for the first time in 3 weeks. is this a torque convertor issue? or any ideas/ info on what that could mean??? thanks sorry about the spelling and hijacking lol

RRUHL

i adjusted the tv "way off" still no luck then out of curiosity I unpluged the sensor towards the front on the drivers side and the issue was gone shifted into gear without shuting off for the first time in 3 weeks. is this a torque convertor issue? or any ideas/ info on what that could mean??? thanks side note ive also had this issue after ground my alt to bat during the manifold gasket just remembered doing it lol didnt think it was related

Camarodude1987

hmmm thats odd you and I seem to be having similar problems and you say your plug on your transmission is on the driver side?

RRUHL

yea in the midle its a 92 700r4 when i unplugged that it shifted into gear no issues

Camarodude1987

oh yeah for some reason i thought mine was on the passenger side, but it's not, my bad thats cool you got your problem straightened out. mines unplugged and no change. you can run without the tcc you just wont have overdrive (highway gas mileage decrease) and you may run a little hotter. you could wire up a switch for it pretty cheap or order a kit from jegs for about 80$

RRUHL

ISSUE IS NOT FIXED lol just masked for now.... I think its because i have the 305 speed sensor for a 350 ecm i hear they need to be switched...thanks thou you have any vacuum leaks or a shot regulator whats goin on with yours?

Camarodude1987

no idea, i only have one vacuum line from the distributor to the carb and its fine. like i said it didnt have any problems until the alternator went to ground, I just don't understand how thats making it do what its doing

RRUHL

i tryd checking codes but all that comes on is a shift light that i dont think is soposto be in an auto car soo im thinkin PO took the ses light out

RRUHL

whats ur main issue still

Camarodude1987

absolutely no power, feels like im driving and old vw or something. before we put the alternator to ground it would break the tires loose if you gave it just a little bit of gas

RRUHL

YOU replace the spark module in the distributor???

Camarodude1987

its a brand new distributor from jegs. I drop it in my truck and it does just fine put my trucks distributor in the camaro no change

Camarodude1987

you mean the ignition control module right

Camarodude1987

I still havent figured out the problem I appreciatte everyones ideas though

Camarodude1987

I talked to my grandpa about the problem he is an electrician he said that when the alternator was put to ground it put 110 volts through the system and is possible it melted the solenoid anyone have any thoughts? I dont have money for a new gasket and trans fluid yet so im trying to hold off on dropping the pan for right now