i just installed a new steering column in my 90 iroc. i used the same key cylinder that was in the car to begin with. i was hoping not to have any issues but know it will not start. i can hear fuel pump come on but im not getting anything from the starter. anyone got any ideas, do you have to reset the vats somehow?

 

is the replacement cloumn a VATS column? to test if the problem is in the column or not you can do the resistor trick. if it doesnt start with the resistor trick, then we can help from there

 

yes it was out of a vats car. the column came from an auto, and mines a stick with the little button on the key switch. thats the main reason i changed the cylinder being i had the other module and the other key. i will try the resisitor and see what happens. so there is no reset or anything?

 

no reset on the VATS system. it either works or it doesnt. if it doesnt you either fix/replace what isnt working, or bypass it.

 

if you dont wanna deal with VATS you can either get it tuned out of the ECM, or spend $50-$75 on a bypass box. the resistor trick will only bypass the column half of the VATS equation not the VATS module itself.

 

ok thanks for the help. im gonna try the resistor first. if that doesnt work ill just get it turned off at the ecm.

 

if you do get rid of VATS, you have to find the start enable relay and ground it out. VATS module controls the ground side of it. its simple to do.

 

ok heres an update. i did the resistor trick that seems to work for everyone else. well no luck here. i did notice my security light is staying on the whole time ignition is on. im assuming its supposed to turn off?

 

right, the security light is supposed to come on then go off when you turn the key. if it stays on, its saying the correct key isnt inserted (its not reading the correct resistance value) or the vats module is fried.

do you still have the original key?

 

Resistors can be tricky because they each have a variance that will multiply if you have to use more than one, I just put together some resistors yesterday to get mine to start. if you have to use more than one, measure the ohms after you've put them together to make sure they are close to the # you need. Also, you have to put them on the wires that go inside the dash not the wires that come off the key. Sorry if this sounds lame but all videos i watched made it seem like you hook them into the ignition side of the wires. Another thing, if you don't solder them on, make sure there is good contact. I have mine stuck under the 2 prongs on the plug because i'm not going to leave it that way. Hope this helps.

I have a question for you, after i installed my new ignition switch the steering wheel shaft is very loose. Any idea what happened? I can move the whole thing in a circle. I've searched for this problem but everything refers to the 'steering column' I always thought the steering column was the housing. I'm talking about the shaft that the wheel attaches to.

 

yes im using the original key now. i pulled the cylinder out of the old column and put in the new one. i didnt wanna have to go through this thats why i used the same key and cylinder. my resistance on the key measured 3.74 that was dead on factory spec. i bought a 3.9 resistor which is still in spec, after i hooked it in it measured 3.85 which is right in the midlle of spec. i just dont get it. any more ideas.

 

oh and the car started and ran fine before i changed columns. thats whats so confusing to me.

 

and when you did the resistor trick you hooked the resistors to into the plug in the dash side and not the one that leads up to the column right?

 

The only other thing i can think of is... there could be a short in the wires between the ignition cylinder and where it plugs in. When i installed my NEW ignition i had a hard time getting the wires down the column, then when it finally went down the plug pulled loose from the wires. Needless to say i wasn't happy about that. So, I snipped the wires off the old cylinder and spliced them to the new one rather than trying to solder them back into that tiny space on the plug. There is also a vats fuse under there but i wouldn't think it could be that.

 

yes i did isnt that common sense lol. i do have the other key and the other vats module that came with the column. if my module got fried somehow, how hard is it to change the module? does the dash have to come out? id rather not go that route though.

 

unless the fuse blew, its not it. the resistor trick bypasses the column and all of its wiring, so if it didnt start with that (if it was done right) then the problem isnt in the column.

 

Are you seeing that same resistance if you meter the 2 wires going to the key at the connector under column with key on?

 

yes special k it was hard getting the wires down there, but i cant see any cuts on the wires. plus i wrapped the hell out of them with tape before hand. as far as your column loose, i noticed a bearing inside there that pulled out on mine. i had to get ot pushed back down. that tightened everything back up. its behind the lock plate.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...able-vats.html

thats how to properly do the resistor trick, it even has pictures

 

vetteoz thats what was bypassed. that plug is undone now.

 

good idea with the tape, i should'a thought about that! i doubt there is a short either, but thought i would mention it.

Thanks for the tip about the bearing, i'll take a closer look.

 

if you ohm the connector going to the column, you should be getting the same resistance as the key.

 

ok i see what your saying now. i will go try that real quick. if thats correct though that means im still stuck lol.

 

if its correct, it means its not the column. the the vats module could have fried, or that the problem is on the dash side of the VATS system.

 

you ohm it with the key in the ignition, if you didnt figure that one out....

 

ok the ohms from the wires are the same as the key. 3.74 right on with the number 10 key. guess its the module. but why did that just happen to screw up when i changed columns? gotta love cars!! lol

 

its either the module, or the wiring leading to it that got messed up. un fourtunatly, i dont know of any way to test the module other than using resistors.

 

if the module is in fact dead. the only options you have are the bypass box, or a chip tune to turn off VATS.

 

you can replace tha module with a known good one for the same key resistance, but that take 1) finding one to begin with. and 2) dismantling most of the dash to get to the VATS module to change it out.

 

ok thanks for the insight.

 

Easy check
You say you have the VATS module and key for new column.
Install the new module and do the resistor trick to suit it to confirm correct operation before installing new switch in column

 

the vats module needs at least 5 minutes" ign cylinder off position" to reset after each atempt to start the car with a wrong key or no key.

 

Hey guys, i searched for vats and this is one of the threads i found......

Anyway, i have a 91' camaro rs with vats. Everyonce in a while it wont start. No power to the starter. So i usually wIt 5 min and try it Again. It usually works, but last night i had to stay at my gfs house cause the car woukdnt start. I tried again in the morning and still nothing. I have anothercar to get me to work. I know there is a way to bypass the vats relY and stick a pper clip or a wire in the pin for the relay conector. I just dont know which pins to do so. Anyhelp guys??????

 

That will just bypass the starter relay. It's the two biggest wires, I can't remember the colors right now. I ended up bypassing the whole system with a 20 dollar chip. I ordered it off eBay. If just bypassing the starter doesn't work you could try that.

 

ok thanks, i got off work early and went to my gfs house. surprisingly it started.

 

it sounds like the key cylinder and key contacs are wrone out and they are not making a good contact, or the two small wires that go to the key cylinder may be breaking apart, if you bypass the starter relay it will crank but it wont start because the ecm will not get the vats input to enable fuel.

 

i made a wide fit into where the bigger wires ar in the connector, but it didnt work?

 

This sounds exactly like what happened to me today. I was running errands all morning and around noon stopped by a testing agent to drop off some aggregate samples, car was turned off maybe 5 minutes tops. Go back out to go to my next stop, turn the key & nothing. The gages lit up as they would for a normal start, but the starter & fuel pump did nothing. Our shop mechanic comes over (they are right down the street from where I broke down) and checks out the wiring. I have power to the started, but it won't crank when I turn the key to start. The fuel pump also doesn't turn on when the key is turned to start or run. He was of the opinion that its either the coil on the distributor or the ignition lock. I have a second set of keys that are only used for when I send the car to the mechanic, so I'll have to give that a try on Monday and see how it goes.

My car is bone stock and has 2 sets of original keys and I know that theres been no modding tried on it ever as there have only been two owners of the car: a 65yr old lady who bought the car when it was showroom new in 1989 and me when I came into ownership of it in 2002.

 

i would of love to own one of these cars off the showroom floor.


i forget what post it was, but a guy posted picture of camaros, firebirds, trans ams of when they were in line to go into the Norwood plant. awsome thread......



found it...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...od-1986-a.html

 

to test the wiring to the ign switch you need to use a digital multimeter, disconect a small two wire conector under the sterring columb," usualy has a orange covering". those two wires are the ones that go into the key cylinder to read the key. set the multimeter to read ohm and conect to the two wires going in to the sterring columb.

now when you put the ignition key inside the cylinder you should see a reading on the meter. it should be the same reading if you take the two wires from the meter and measure your key. if you dont see a reading on the meter when you put the key in the ign cylinder, chances are that the wires broke somewhere in betwen the conector at the bottom and the key cylinder. i have seen this on a couple of cars.

 

my car still starts. every once in a while i get nothing

 

travis,

What is the resistor trick?

 

basically, you unplug the column side of the VATS wiring and just plug a resistor in the plug instead. the resistor mimics the resistor on the key making the VATS module think the correct key is ALWAYS inserted in the column.

i posted a link to a how to thread in post 19.

the main thing when doing it is to remember to unplug the 2 connectors. otherwise it might read the resistor value plus the resistor value in the key, giving you too much making the VATS module trip for a wrong key.

 

Thanks travis.

If I do need to replace the lock, would I be able to use a replacement lock cylinder & key (in this case an AC Delco from Rock Auto: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=97030 ) or is the ECM programmed to look for a specific resistance value?

 

the ecm is only programmed to look for the specific signal from the VATS module. the VATS module is whats looking for that preprogrammed resistance value. theres 15 different key blanks that GM used. if you figure out what key blank you have, you can get a key made for your new lock cylinder with the correct key blank and be good.

 

Well thats good news. I have a second set of keys to my car that I use only for when the car goes to the shop (read practically unused), so all I'd have to do is get a backup set of keys remade for that purpose.

 

if you dont want the hassle of getting new keys made. a locksmith will be able to rekey the cylinder to match the stock key.

 

So the replacement cylinder from AC Delco wouldn't accept the stock key without a locksmith's work?

Also, can you point out whats what in the last picture (very bottom of the page) in the VATS tech article:

https://www.thirdgen.org/vats_passkey_system

I'm pretty sure 1 is the VATS module but the rest I'm unsure of. Also, where can you get a replacement VATS module?

 

the replacement cylinder will be keyed for whatever key it comes with. its highly unlikely itll come set up for your stock key. any good locksmith can rework the pins and tumbler to your stock key. its either that, or use that key chart to find what key blank you need, and have it cut to fit the new lock cylinder. or bypassing the VATS system...

that would be the vats module. its nearly impossible to get to without disassembling the dash, by design. GM didnt want it easy to get to and bypass afterall.

 

Well, alls not well. Measured my key resistance 1.467 kohms, so key blank 6 is what keys I have. I found the pair of white wires in orange insulation and pulled it apart at the connector and measured the resistance. Its the same resistance as I got across the key pellet, so I know the ignition lock is good and the wiring is fine to at least where the connector is. So its most likely the VATS module. I didn't try it in other positions other than off, so I will check that tomorrow to be sure its not the lock.

Which is easier, splicing in the VATS bypass or plugging in an EBL that has VATS turned off? I'm not up on my wiring and I'm a bit out of it right now so thinking isn't my strong point right now.