JeffG3209

1992 Z28 305, Fuel pump will not turn on. It was very low on fuel last time I turned it off. When I turn on the ignition, I cannot hear the fuel pump whine as it has done for the last two years.

The car is TPI and runs on starting fluid, but I don't hear that pump at all. Can running out of fuel trip a relay or fuse?

Can someone point me in the direction of the relay?
-or -
Can someone point out a simple troubleshooting procedure?

Thanks, I only get about 30 minutes of daylight after work

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

A relay is not a circuit breaker, The ecm controls the fuel pump relay durning the acc prime. time to get out your vom.

http://chevythunder.com/199092_fbody_1227730_ecm.htm

JeffG3209

Let me ask, I have had some "Key issues" lately. I sometimes have to wait for the vats to reset. The ignition where the key goes in has become a little loose as well acting up. Do you this could be some of the problem.

Thanks for the reply!

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

yes, vats will cut the fuel pump.

JeffG3209

Thanks for the response. Call it whatever you want, but trolling post to lead up to a sale is complete BS, especially if you are not a vendor.

GTFO my thread!!

Private message:
hi, if ther is a vats effecting issue the security light should be staying on when you don't hear the pump. There are several ways around the vats. you can do a search for vats bypass, if you measure the resistance in your key and look on line you can goto radio shack and get a resister and wire it in to bypass it. another way is to buy a vats bypass module that sends the expected signal to the ecm. Ant the last is having it reprogramed it out of the calibration. I do reprograming so If you want any help on this let me know. I charge 75 shipped for a biggyback board and chip that is reprogramed without vats and also do performance tuning aswell. -Brian

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And by the way, if you are going to try and sell some of your garbage, at the bare minimum use the spell checker and make yourself appear somewhat intelligent.

WTF is a biggyback?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

not looking for a sale or how you say trolling just trying to help and give you some ideas. I intended to say piggyback. www.moates.net part g1 adapter.

JeffG3209

I looked at your other thread posts troll, please GTFO my thread....

Better yet.... Let's set up a poll on here and we can see who you have propositioned with you "biggyback" for $75.00

Moderator, care to take a peek at his PM's and trolling post?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You are welcome for any advice, take it or leave it. Trolling don't understand that one ! just offering so advice on what todo and check. So if I had a part to help fix your car this would be trolling? Never said this is what you need buy it now !! Good luck thanks for having a attitude sir.

Impaqt

iTrader: (1)

Wow. Over react much Jeff?

I dont see anything int hat PM that indicates hes trying to scam you or anything of the sort. The piggyback board itself runs around $50 from moates, so $75 for a Non Vats Chip is a good deal. he even offered other less expensive ideas so you can see if thats the issue.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

i agree, if VATS is the issue, you have 3 options. fix it, bypass it, or tune it out of the ecm. him offering $75 for a chiped with vats tunes out was just an option. the pypass box generally runs from $50-$75. the resistor trick cost a whole dollar maybe, but wont fix a faulty VATS box, only issues in the column.

im sure if he was just here to sell tunes, hed be posting it here for everyone to see (just like you did when you posted his pm). not sedning a pm saying that IF you wanted one he could help you out with one.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Thank you, and if you see if I would sell you a g1 adapter and chip and shipping I am not making much off of it, a little for my time and a better fix just my opinion !! impaqt it is the $35 g1.

btw, jeff thanks for being a basher did you even consider I have health issues and no feeling in a couple of fingers and have had 2 sleepless nights ( so excuse me about the spelling) geesh !!

Impaqt

iTrader: (1)

Plus a 27SF512 I would assume.... and time...

Sounds fair to me....

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

actually im old school and have alot of the 27c256 uv chips.

JeffG3209

Yes. I flip out about this kind of stuff. I don't go looking for trouble, but when some BS comes my way, I will make it known. Simple.

Be open, if you sell something don't send me a PM. Be upfront, stuff starts looking fishy quick when I search your other threads and username the same stuff. Makes me wonder how many PM's you send out.

I feel confident that this thread will go nowhere now. Hopefully I will be proved wrong.

As far as I have always understood, the "secutrity" lamp will stay on when the VATS is activated. With my VATS occasional issues to the side, the fuel pump is not functioning.

It would be a great help to understand what a proper troubleshooting procedure would be without VATS in the equation.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

how old is the pump? have you checked the fuel pump fuse under the hood?

on a side note, theres rules about selling services (including prom burning) openly in the threads. thats why he pmed you about it.

JeffG3209

Thank you for the response.

I know for sure it is at least 2.5 years old, but I bought the car used in early 2009.

Yes, it was good. I also checked the wiring coming out of the housing.


What would you recommend next?

travis401

iTrader: (1)

test the pump by applying power to the thin red wire on the fuel pump relay (shouldnt be connected to anything), if you cant hear the pump running with 12v on the wire, your pump or relay is dead. or theres a problem with the wires from the relay to the pump.

JeffG3209

I dug around under the hood looking for the relay. Could you tell me the location if the relay.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

driver's side bulk head!

JeffG3209

I attached an image and I believe this is the relay location. However, there are three sets of relays. Which one do I choose?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

the middle one should even have a red pigtail that is a test wire.

JeffG3209

Alright. I now feel bad for what I said. I apologize. Lately, I've been getting phone calls and emails all day long of people trying to sale me this or that.. Online is one place I don't really have to deal with it at all. Last night especially, I had to locate a CEO's number and call him to at home in order to make the sales calls stop. So that is where the anger comes. My mistake, and thanks for the help.

abray1

I remember one guy had a rubber hose connecting his fuel pump to the metal tube and it blew out causing his not to run but you should still hear the whine. I have a pressure gauge on the fuel rail. If you figure it out let us know I am curious.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Thank you for saying that. The ecm sends power to the fuel pump relay when the key is in the acc position out of pin a11 for 5 seconds to prime the fuel rail. when the engine cranks the engine the oil pressure switch is in effect. If your vats is the issue there not be the prime or power at the relay with the green/white stripe wire.

lolvtec

my 91 vert is doing the same thing but everything in my car is less then a year old (really everything) my dad drove the car last very very low on fuel and i know gm fuel pumps hate that ill look into the relays and see if thats it but im thinking i got to drop the fuel tank if i do ill be posting pics of it

travis401

iTrader: (1)

pumps tend to burn out faster when you regularly run it low or empty, one time shouldnt have killed the pump.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

True, the fuel lubricates and cools the pump. I would think you would have too be running this thing out of fuel alot too burn out the pump. lets cross our fingers it's the relay or connection at the relay. Replacing the pump is not that fun especially since they designed the stupid filler neck so long.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

i fixed that issue in my camaro. i can drop the tank in half an hour with it on jack stands and NOT dropping the rear end. its a simple fix too.

lolvtec

i didnt have to drop the rearend and i got extra room to because my exhaust dumps before the rear end as for how many times my dad did im not sure he said once but i wasnt around the car for 9months and he said he let it sit there for 8 months after it stopped running starts on starting fluid i hear the injectors firing but no fuel comes out and the pump makes no noises. i put a new pump in it last oct and drove it from phx az to lebanon ohio (2000 miles) and went back to az for my other cars i just got back in oct to the camaro not running

travis401

iTrader: (1)

disconnect the fuel feed in the engine bay and route it with some hose to a bucket or something. then fold down the rear seat and lift the carpeting up, you can see where the fuel pump wires go through and to the pump. stick 12v on the gray wire and see if anything comes out of the line. if not the pump is dead (given the tank isnt empty).

JeffG3209

I purchased this today from AutoZone. Which setting should I use when determining voltage of the green and white wires on the relay. I believe its the green setting at about 2 o'clock on the dial, labeled ACV

92Z

iTrader: (1)

You would want DCV. This is DC voltage, typical in automotive. ACV is AC voltage, like in your house.

JeffG3209

Alright, makes sense, I understand now. Thank you.

I sliced up the green, I'll patch that up with some heat shrink before I put it all back together. In regards to the red pigtail, I am unsure if the red wire on this relay is what has been mentioned above. The red wire seems to actually go somewhere though.



I'll go ahead and put the meter on the green/white wire and turn the ACC on. Thanks for the help this far, seriously, much appreciated.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

the red wire should be a long wire with a connector on the end, but it shouldnt be plugged into anything, its the pump prime test lead. the gray wire is the 12v that runs through the oil pressure switch and eventually all the way back to the pump, the black wire is the ground, the orange is the battery constant and the green is the trigger.

JeffG3209

With the green/white wire spliced, I plugged the relay in hooked up the prongs and turned the ACC on with the key. The meter indicated 1.7 for roughly five seconds.

JeffG3209

Wow, thanks for the breakdown of the colored wires! Much help.

Would you recommend me spicing the red and adding power to it from somewhere else to see if the fuel pump kicks on?

travis401

iTrader: (1)

no need to splice it, trace it out and find the other end, then apply 12v to it from the battery. it should be long enough to reach. you should be seeing 12v on the green wire as well with the key on.

JeffG3209

It jumped to 11.XX for a split second when I first turn the key to ACC. I forgot to mention that I went ahead and changed the relay today as well.

What do you think it means if the green/white wire is only getting 1.7 for about 5 seconds?

If the vats is engaged, will the security light always be on? I believe this is the case, but I am not 100%.

If the vats is engaged, will the red wire still start the fuel pump?

travis401

iTrader: (1)

red wire will kick on the pump regardless. i dont even think the key has to be on. if the green wire isnt getting 12v, then i think youve narrowed down your problem.

JeffG3209

Well, just to ease my mind a bit, I'm gonna go ahead and put 12V to the red wire.

I would be ecstatic for almost anything other than the fuel pump be the problem... Knock on wood

-srs-

Just wanted to give tunedperformanc a pat on the back for not going ballistic on Jeff.

Jeff, calm down dude.

JeffG3209

Agreed! I've been as high stung the last few months as I have ever been in my entire life and I'm not embarrassed to admit it.

I was sitting fat when I bought this car, and everything was taken away swiftly with the economy. I chose to keep this toy, over a dependable, awesome, lifted, head turning, Jeep Wrangler assured things would turn around soon. Well in 2.5 years, it's only become worse, way worse. I know for a fact I'm not alone.

I can go from mild to wild in about a heartbeat anymore, I guess everyone saw that.

At the end of the day, I still have my Camaro, it has its issues. However, the day that my life finally steers in the direction that it's bound for, I'll be able to say that my Camaro weathered the storm all the way through with me.

Back to topic...
The red wire didn't start the fuel pump either. I reconnect the green/white to the volt meter. It spikes for a split second, then goes down to 1.6 to 1.7 again. Any thoughts?

abray1

When my vats locked me out years ago I think I remember the starter and most everything not working for about 5 minutes. He should measure the pellet in the key with his new meter and go get a resistor and put it in the orange and white wire just to make sure. I applaud Jeff for not losing his cool also. My advice is for everyone to start drinking heavily.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

http://www.hotrodlane.cc/newtech/tun...elcircuit.html

if you are going to check out this circuit back probe using paperclips. cutting into the wire like that will open things up for later issues.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

if the red wire didnt power the pump, if may be the relay. fold down the back seat, lift up the carpet, and youll see a bulkhead connector with 3 wires. those go to the pump. black is ground, grey is 12v and purple runs the gauge. apply 12v to the grey wire and ground to the black and see if the pump runs then. if it doesnt, you get to drop the tank and change pumps.

lolvtec

i didnt get to get to mine this weekend so i guess next weekend ill get to it the dd **** out on my and putting a cluch in took up my time