Cambird Z/AM

Ok we are have some major problems right now
I Have my 1989 TBI V8 Auto Firebird and my sisters 1991 3.1V6 MPI Camaro. Her and I have gone thought atleast 5 VATS Anti-Theft Relays And we have no idea why they are failing on us.
I had one go in my Firebird and it almost caught fire it was so hot. After it cooled down and my heart beat fell from 1,000,000 over 500, i found the four termail relay turned into a 3 termial relay. The forth termail had melted.
I would love the get rid of VATS system so me and her dont have to spend $26 each time a relays. Any help would be awesome.

Rolling Thunder

Well now thats interesting. Do you want to fix the issue or just bypass the VATS? Although I suspect the fault has nothing to do with vats bypassing it probably wont help its just instead of a relay self destructing a wire will melt. Ya know how it goes something is only as strong as its weakest link the relay being it in this case. I say this because when a relay fails so violently like that its usually because the current draw through the relay far exceeded what it could handle. Considering what the relay is supposed to be powering this shouldn't be a problem. Its odd because i would have expected a fuse or a fuseable link to go first but anyways we need to figure out why the big draw and also inspect the wires for damage because if the relay got that hot i can imagine the wires fared much better. This is especially bad because when wires get that kind of hot and it melts the insulation off they tend to melt through the insulation of the adjacent wires there taped to in its harness. This can be a real headache. Can you identify for me which pin was destroyed? Or more specifically what color wire would have attached to that pin when it existed lol. Also this car hasn't had the electrical systems hacked at one point or another has it?

camaronewbie

Didn't know there was a relay in the VATS system - where is this relay located?

Rolling Thunder

Yes there is a relay in the VATS system. Its to enable the the starter solenoid much like a neutral safety switch works but instead of a mechanically operated switch its a relay controlled by the VATS module. To my knowledge on all 3rd gen F bodies that have VATS its behind the kick panel on the drivers side.

Cambird Z/AM

Well I might have to disagree about all Camaros and Firebird's having the relay. The VATS system came in at the 1989 Model year for Camaro's and Firebirds. Therefor the relay was used. (hopefully i didnt read the last reply wrong)
The wire in question is green with a white strip. That is the wire that leads to the connector that melted. Now this was my first relay to go on me (the one with a missing termail).
I have now since put in a brand new one that i got yesturday (march 2nd). The one that I just replaced doesnt have a melted termail.

Cambird Z/AM

To fix the system or get rid of it. Which ever is the cheapest way of get'er done.
Well the car has a aftermarket stereo, had a CB radio pluged in (no more) and there was a aftermarket alarm system under the dash. I flowed the wires for the A/M alarm and it lead no where, so i took it out. Plus there was no horn under the dash.
I am half temped at this point to gut the whole car down to the frame and suspension and builting a street-race car outta it. The trans blew up about a month ago and just started workin on it now so I am at a cross road of fixing it and keeping it, or selling it as-is or fixin and sellin it.

Rolling Thunder

No, I wasn't saying that they are on all 3rd gen F bodies only that they are on all third gen F bodies that have VATS which you are correct became standard in 89. No problem though. Anyways onto the real problem at hand. The green wire is what goes on to power the starter solenoid. This indicates to me that the relay is being overloaded possibly because of a bad starter solenoid or a short (the starter wires are fairly close to the exhaust manifold). What really concerns me is the fact that this relay's contacts get power from the ignition switch which gets power from the battery through a fuse able link. Im supprised that it didn't burn open if the current draw was that high unless it did and someone replaced the fuseable link with a normal wire? I would definitely check this because not having that fused protection leaves you open to a lot of trouble should there be a fault like this one. I would try taking an ohm reading from the green wire to ground and also inspecting the starter solenoid wires as best you can for shorts against a exhaust manifold for example.

Cambird Z/AM

Ok I'll try all of that. And actully I beleive I am forgetting to include some info about my 89 firebird.
I changed a trans, starter failed like after 10 starts, changed it, no problems from it.
I changed the steering colmun in it, came with orginal GM key. Same colmun, but no crusie control and different factory steering wheel. (I cant remember what year of car the colmun came from)
And plus, how come the relays are failing in both my 89 V8 Firebird and my sisters 91 V6 Camaro? Same problem?

Rolling Thunder

Well thats interesting that you have 2 cars that fail in this manner when it doesn't seem to be a very common problem lol. Well ya know what they say if it wasnt for bad luck I wouldn't have luck at all lol. What I am interested in though is you say you replaced the column and used the original key that came with it Im surprised because each key has a specific resistance thats matched to a VATS module. If you replaced the column and used the key that came with it and not the VATS module also Im shocked that actually worked. I don't remember how many resistances there were but there were like 10 different ones used so the odds that it would match up like that is pretty low. Anyways as far as whats causing these problems we need to know what failed on the relays. On your a terminal vaporized pretty obvious what happened there although since your most recent relay failed in a not quite so obvious manner i suppose it would be a good idea to test the relay to see what failed the contacts or the coil? If you still have the relays try applying 12V to where the yellow wires would go and a ground to the terminal where the black/yellow wire would have been. With the relay set like this it should click and you should measure 12V on the last terminal where the green wire would connect. Breaking the ground connection should turn off the relay and 12V should no longer be present where the green wire connects. By doing this test we can determine which part of the relay failed and from there we can try and figure out why.