Destructimus

Have a few questions here:
Does anyone know if the starting system and fuel pump run through the ecm?
Does anyone know if there's a separate relay or anything that would control how the starter and fuel pump respond to the ignition switch?
Why wouldn't my fuel pump be working with the key in the on position if I had a separate switch to engage my starter?

Here is the backstory behind this problem:
I was messing with my car the other day trying to fix a misfire. Thought I had it fixed (loose ground wire on the coil) so i started it up and while it was running I noticed some arcing near the number 8 cylinder or maybe the starter, I couldn't really tell. I shut it down to take a look and when I went to restart it, my dash lights turned on and everything but I got nothing from the starter. I tested the wires and the individual wire that goes to the solenoid separately from the battery cable had no power even with the ignition switch in the "start" position. I rigged up a switch splicing a wire directly from my battery to that wire, and the starter engaged but even with the key in the on position it wouldn't start. The fuel pump would prime, but it would shut off afterwards. I'm thinking there's some kind of relay here that I don't know about that is either damaged, or it's not getting power. Thanks.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Does your "SECURITY" light come on when you turn the ignition on at all? It sounds to me as though you don't have any power going to your anti-theft module, which controls both the starter enable relay (no start relay) and the fuel pump enable circuit in the ECM (disables fuel if no or wrong key is inserted when the engine is cranked). If one thing were bad, I would suspect something in that individual system, but since BOTH the starter AND the fuel pump don't work (except the 2-second prime cycle for the pump), I'm thinking you have a VATS/Pass-Key problem.

Where's Trickster when you need him? He's the resident VATS expert.

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

To clarify, VATS does not control the fuel pump at all. It controls the starter via the Starter Enable Relay and it can also disable the injectors.

I recommend you use this troubleshooting article to find out why your starter doesn't work. http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=38

Then I'd check whether it's fuel you are missing to fire up. You can spray carb cleaner into the intake and crank the enigne over.

Let us know what you find out.
Lou

Destructimus

Reading through this it says that the fuel pump relay energizes the fuel pump for two seconds and then continues energizing the pump if there are ignition pulses. I know that I am getting ignition, and I can hear the fuel pump wind up when I turn the key to the on position but I don't hear it after that. Perhaps whatever is registering me getting ignition pulses isn't working. The ECM should be what registers this, correct?

BigBadLou

iTrader: (3)

Yes, the ECM detect the pulses from the distributor and turn the fuel pump on as long as the pulses keep coming. So if the ECM primes the pump but doesn't run it with the starter cranking the engine, that would point to the ECM not detecting the distributor pulses.

Hope this helps.
Lou

Destructimus

Well I have a weird end to a weird problem. The car just decided to start. Looking back, I remember plugging in a random weatherpack connector under my car when I was rehooking up my tachometer thinking, "What is this? I bet it needs to be plugged in." lol It had Hitachi labels on it. My guess is that this was the connector for the VATS system which a previous owner unplugged and somehow disabled because it was malfunctioning. (The car had a spare key made out of plastic that I could start it with for some reason.) This isn't the first time weird wiring from the previous owner has F'ed with me. The reason I didn't check this earlier is because it started the first time with this plugged in. Either way MAVERICK, your reccomendation to check the VATS and Big Bad Lou, your supplying of wiring diagrams to show how this made no sense really helped me out in knowing where to look so I appreciate it greatly. Thanks.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Might want to check your oil pressure switch by the oil filter as well. Even if the fuel pump relay were screwy (which it obviously isn't) your oil pressure switch should still cycle the pump when it sees oil pressure.

When you say you reattached the Hitachi connector, was that under the car or under the dash? Cause if it was under the dash, that could've been the connector for the VATS module. However, from experience, your engine wouldn't run at all with it disconnected from the ECM (no 50 Hz signal on the VATS input shuts the injectors off), so your problem could be any number of things.
The VATS module is under the dash, BTW, right about in the middle. Try disconnecting that weird weatherpack connector and seeing what happens. We might be able to help you better if we knew what wire colors went to the connector.

:edit: Also, are you throwing any codes? Code 12 means the ECM isn't receiving an engine speed input, code 46 means you have a VATS signal fault, and code 54 means you have a fuel pump relay problem or bad ECM.