comatose 88 WS6

Go out this morning to start my car for work....nothing. So I figure dead battery no big deal. Get a new optima redtop, hook it up....nothing. Doing a quick diagnostic check with my little GM scanner, it give me code 46, anti theft failure. Does anyone know how to solve this problem? Its an 88, but I know 4th gens had the little chips in the keys as well. Im completely lost and dont know what to check next, all help will be greatly appreciated.

Trickster

Hello comatose 88 WS6,

UH HUH!!!!! What you can do is look under the dash for two wires coming down the steering column. They will either be two yellow wires in a black sleeve or two white wires in a orange sleeve. They will connect to a connector with a black/white wire and a purple/yellow wire, disconnect those wires. Now take a multimeter and set it to OHM's and measure the resistance in the pellet in your key as shown in the picture below. Now put the key in the lock cylinder and measure the resistance of the keys pellet through the wires coming down the steering column. If the resitance value is different, your problem is in the lock cylinder. If the value is the same, then your problem is elsewhere such as in the VATS control module or its wiring.

THEGENERAL

what causes that to just go bad like that ??

Trickster

Wires rubbing inside the steering column, accidently hitting the wire with your foot putting on brakes, worn contacts on the key or inside the lock cylinder.

comatose 88 WS6

thanks trickster, and ditto on his question. I know my battery is close to dead, well the old one was, and its been hot as hell out here in the desert, 100+ the last 4-5 days. Could that have any effect? Should I check my starter at all?

Trickster

Well you changed out the battery and it still didn't start so that rules that out. The starter being bad wouldn't give you a code 46 on the computer. That only happens when the VATS control module reads the wrong resistance coming from the key. Does your security light come on when you turn the key and go out after 2 seconds or does it come on and remain on until you release the key. The VATS control module also has a 4 - 5 minute delay after the first failed start while it resets. During this time, the ignition circuit is locked out. If you have another key, try it in the cylinder. Try wiggling the key around while trying to start. Just a couple of thoughts!

THEGENERAL

ive been seeing alot of people having trouble with this lately cant you just bypass it thru the vats ?

comatose 88 WS6

i took the multiple key approach, I have the main one and a spare, and niether worked a few minute span. where is the VATS module located?

Trickster

The VATS control module is located under the defroster vents along the firewall near the drivers right knee. It is a PITA to get to and not exactly cheap to replace. The last time I priced one it was about $350.00 + tax and that was about three years ago. Try the test I mentioned above and then go from there. It is cheaper and easier to replace the lock cylinder than the VATS module. Also if the wire is broken or worn on the lock cylinder, it can be repaired.

comatose 88 WS6

Okay trickster...new findings......Just took off the dash panel on my GTA, and I didnt see the wires you mentioned. I did see an assload of randomly colored wires running everywhere courtesy of the digital dash. I also put the key in and checked to see if the security like came on...and thats negative, the security light flashed for a half second if that as I turned the key in it and it didnt pop on either. But I didnt find something odd under there....Right next to the steering column was a white connector that had a pink wire, a purple wire, and id say a 1/4" hose running out of it. Before the hose disappeared however, you can easily see were it has separated and opened into a huge hole. whats that hose/tube for or running? Since the security light didnt come on does that mean its the lock cylinder?

Trickster

Hello comatose 88 WS6,

Okay, you stated in your last post that the security light came on for about a half second or so. If it did that then the lock cylinder is not the problem since that is the normal operation. Your problem now seems to be the starter enable relay mounted under the left kick panel. It will have four wires going to it. To test it, you will need to disconnect the harness and jumper pins "A" & "E" with a fused wire. If the car starts, replace that relay. The connector with the two wires and hose sounds like the cruise control switch, check this picture and see if it looks like it..

comatose 88 WS6

Okay yea thats the cruise control, I was wondering why it never worked. Now with this other relay, you said something about a fused wire...does that mean wire has a fuse in it? because I saw something like that under there..... Ill go putz around under the dash real quick and see what I come up with....

comatose 88 WS6

106 degree weather doesnt help at all =/...what I thought was the wire you were talking about is something with a fuse in it further back under the dash...is there anywhere online that has the wiring diagrams for digital GTA dashes? Too many damn wires to try to figure out what is what when your not even sure what to look for lol...

Trickster

oops!!!!!!!!!

Trickster

If the wire you found under the dash with a fuse in it was red/white, that is the in-line fuse for your hatch release/pull down assembly. The relay I am talking about is behind the left kick panel, this is the panel by the drivers left foot and has the hood release in it. You are looking in the wrong location and I spent some quality time there at lovely little Nellis.

comatose 88 WS6

yea? what position in the air force? i almost joined, got an 89 on the adsvap at the airforce building on sahara...Iight thanks for the ilustration, im gonna go check it out right now...oh yea no more 106...it was 109 today, talk about ****ty

Trickster

I was a glorified grease monkey (crew chief on fighters).

comatose 88 WS6

cool....well i just went out to my car, pried the kick panel off.....all i found amongthe tangle of wires mounted to the inside fender was a black tower like piece with various wires plugged in, all of them orange with like phone cord click type connectors...further forward from it was a black box with a plug that had 2 green wires and 2 yellow wires running into it on the same side of the plug, one of the green wires had a white stripe on it. are those diagrams from a TA or a GTA?

Trickster

They are from an 89 camaro and is similar to your wiring. That tower with the plugs in it is connector C238 (Junction Block). The starter enable relay is the black box with the two yellow wires, green wire, and green/white wire. The green/white wire goes to the Park/Neutral switch (automatic) or the Clutch start switch (manual). The two yellow wires go to the ignition switch on the steering column under the dash. The green wire goes to pin "A3" on the VATS control module. Do the test I mentioned earlier with the resistance in the key and lock cylinder. If they are good, then do this test with the starter enable relay.

comatose 88 WS6

okay, now this might sound like a dumb question...but whats a fused jumper?

Trickster

A wire of sufficent gauge with a fuse in it.

comatose 88 WS6

inexpensive? where can i get one?

Trickster

Couple of bucks at any auto parts store.

jogle

I am having the same problem. My husband is very frustrated with this. He is going try some of the tricksters idea's. But he would like to know is there anyway just to disengage the system so it doesn't read the chip in the key? Thanks for your help.

comatose 88 WS6

unhooked the relay, hooked up the fused jumper yellow wire to grn/wht and it fired. im not sure how to hook up the jumper and the relay at the same time, but im going to try. so this right here should tell me its not the VATS? with checking the ohms threw the key and the ignition switch, the numbers on the multimeter never stopped moving, but the lows i got were 3.7 for the switch 3.6 for the key, does that mean theyre okay trickster? thanks for the help

Trickster

Yes, your problem was the starter enable relay which is a part of the VATS, replace it and you should be good to go.

gscm75

Trickster, great imfo!!! I have been having the same problem with my son's 89 IROC (5.7). We frist replaced the starter and solenoid. It still would not start (just 'click'). we then moved on to the ignition switch, we replaced it (& adjusted it), it would start find for while. Then 'nothing' would not 'turnover, (lights 7 everything esle worked). Funny thing was that you could 'jump' it with an other battery and it would start (replaced the battery). It is now starting once in awhile and then, will not 'turn' over, wait for a while and if you are lucky it will run for awhile. Then if you turn it off it may or maynot start. We have NOW replaced the starter relay swith too and STILL having the same problem. So if you can help, I would re appricate it, as I am quickly losing status with my son!

comatose 88 WS6

get the new relay after 22 bucks and 4 days of waiting...test it with the fuse jumper one more time, it starts...hook up the relay and nothing, scanner still saying the VATS code. any ideas on what to check next? im half ready to sell my GTA because i wont be able to afford the 350 VATS module so al help will be greatly appreciated.

comatose 88 WS6

well...wire to the next senor i have to check ends up getting electrical taped to 40+more wires and go up behind the dash like a rope. So, with no idea where to go or how to bypass the whole thing, ima be forced to sell my 3rd gen. helloooo cheap 4-banger

Trickster

What sensor are you going to check? Where did you get that relay from, the dealership or a aftermarket replacement?

Tonyrodz

Could you leave it this way and just run it like that? I just put a new battery in my 89 and it refuses to start also. Security light comes on for 2 secs then goes out also. Damn vats!
I would love to get rid of it!

Trickster

Hello Tonyrodz,

If you just changed the battery and the security light comes on for 2 seconds. This is the normal operation of the system. It is possible that there is something else wrong with your car besides VATS. Have you looked? I'm not saying to completely rule out VATS. Was the car working fine before you changed the battery?

Tonyrodz

Car is an ongoing project--so it's not a dailey driver. It would start tho when I'd occasionally jump it from another car. But since I put in the new battery--nothing!

comatose 88 WS6

trickster I got a new starter enable relay straight from the dealer, but cant find the key decoder sensor because the wire that runs to it its taped up into a bundle with about 50 other wires that goes up behind the dash. hmm, does a buick roadmaster have an LT1?

Glens89RS

See if this quick and dirty check will help narrow the problem. I find it alot easier to read than a wiring diagram.
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/new...threadid=86947

For some reason (stupidity) I can not get this reply to go to the correct place. The reply was written by member Omar and the post was titled I'm at the end of my rope... car won't start. Do a search, you'll find it.

Mark P.

Our '89 RS vert died while driving. The security light came on constant when the key was turned on. and just a click when I tried to start it. I found this thread and trouble shot the steering column and I read the key resistance through the lock set and column and it's fine. For several days the security light remained constant. I started digging for the VATS module and for the heck of it tried to start it again and still just the click, but now that the lower dash and most of the console is apart, the security light decided to start going off after 2 seconds every time. I still have not found the VATS module but I think I'm finally getting close. PITA is definitely the term for getting to it. Is it right behind the ac controls and up and to the left?
I can barely see a grey box there that is about 2.5 X 3.5 inches and about .75 inches thick. The wires that I can see going into the module are: pink w/black stripe; black w/white stripe; blue; purple w/yellow stripe; green; white w/black stripe; tan; and orange.
It looks like I'll need to remove the console completely to get to it huh? And do you think it's still the VATS module now that I'm getting the 2 second security light?
The local dealer quoted us a price of $221.00 plus tax for the VATS module by the way.

razorblade

thanx guys for all the info i changed the lock cylinder and it worked but couldnt have fingered it out if not for u guys any way thanx

joshwilson3

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Trickster

A fused jumper is a section of wire with a fuse holder containing a fuse in the middle of it. You can make one or buy it at the parts store. You will find them in the electrical section with the fuses.

joshwilson3

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ScottieB

btw in my 89 RS my VATS module was mounted (screwed into) air duct deal in the center of the dash. Yes, it came from the factory this way.... Think of your air ducts how they go like a Y ... the bottom of the Y being by the stereo, and the left and right going to driver and passenger. It was more on the driver side of the Y vent... it is a little grey box with a plug in it. box is 2-3"x4-5" i can't exactly remember... but it wasn't that big of a box... but hard as !@#$ to get to... Don't try this w/o patience :|

Also, there are kits out there to bypass the VATS and send the right code to the computer of "pass"... as long as you have your resistance of your key.

-- ScottieB

Note: my VATS works fine, hehe

joshwilson3

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Green89IROC305

a 10 or 12 gauge wire with a fuse holder should get you through all of your jumpering needs you can use anywhere from a 15-35 amp fuse.

also you can simply wire a fuse holder into your positive lead on your multimeter.

joshwilson3

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Trickster

It is for the same reason as for what you mentioned about using a fused jumper with the multimeter. It is to keep from frying the circuit that you are testing in the event of a power surge. And no, using a fused jumper will not affect the readings of the multimeter unless you are possibly checking for resistance.