The Greek

Alright today I decided to install an open element on my third gen. Not a hard mod very easy I thought. I followed the instructions on snflupigus' site to the exact word. However the one part where I am supposed to say "WOW" while reving the engine did not happen.
After disconecting the battery for 30 seconds to reset the computer I went to start the car and nothing happened. No cranking or anything, it was dead. Now could I have fried my car? I dont think I could have cause the car was never running to do anything, plus the headlights still work a long with the tailights etc. I looked at a couple of the fuses and they were not fried. Could I have done electrical damage some how? The only way that I could have fried anything is if the base of the cleaner came in contact with any of the coil wires right? which it didnt. I then tried jumping it. No dice.
So what the hell happened here, what did I do wrong. Am I looking at a electrical problem here or a problem with the starter cause it isnt engaging.

Thanks for the help

-Jason

Chuck!

Maybe the hot to the starter just came loose or something easy like that? Do you get a click or anything?

The Greek

nope, no click or anything

Tas

put everything back to stock and see if that helps. I'll send this to the electronics board maybe they will know

Eternal

maybe the selenoid decided to puke right at that freak moment, that could cause everything else in the car to work except the starter

deadbird

To add to Eternals scenerio of freak happenings, have you tried messing with the shifter, as in making sure it's fully in park or tired starting it from neutral. Time messes with the shifter & the neutral safety switch (mainly slack & wear). I know on my camaro, if the shifter is not fully forward, it will not start. Same as, you have to mess with it (my car) to get it to start in neutral.

A side note.. if the car is off, you can ground the coil all day long with no consequences.

If simple diagnostics fail (i.e... not alot of work involved/the above posted few ideas..) you might need to break out (or buy) the multimeter & start testing wires.

bluehog67

When I was watching that show with Jesse James, "Monster Garage" they pulled the battery when they made that 91 mustang 5.0 into a lawn mower. to move sutff around, and when they plugged everything back in nothin turned over but all the lights and crap worked. Then they realized that the fuel pump has a switch so when the battery is pulled the fuel pump shuts off and has to be manually turned back on. This is so if you put the battery back in the car won't accidently start and run over somebody or blow. Now this could have been just something that Ford may have done for their cars. But it sounds alot like the problem they had. And it may not be the fuel pump maybe the fuel line has the switch or somethin.

The Greek

So this is what happened today..............

Most of the feed back I have recieved has mostly been saying that it has been a connection problem of sorts. So I decided to go over everything that I touched yesterday and see what exactly was going on. I went to double check the negative terminal of the battery and tried retightening it. It never got tight where the wreng would stop turning. I then took it out and looked at the bolt, it was stripped. I then looked at the negative terminal on the battery and it looked kind of messed up. I thought that this might be my problem. So having the negative cable bolted to the battery does not work. However with the same battery and negative cable you can barely touch the cable to the battery and the car will turn over.

Now thinking that it was a problem with the battery I bought a new one. I even put a new terminal on the negative cable wire. Once again connected everything to the perfectly new battery........... tried starting it........nothing it was dead. So once again I unbolted the negative cable and once again if you barely touch the negative end of the cable to the battery the car turns over.

Its something crazy where their can not be a bolt through the negative cable to the battery.

The cable is grounded to the fender perfectly. You can have the cable bolted to the battery as hard as you want and the car will not start. The lights, windows, electric hatch and stero will still work but the thing just will not start.

I am stumped..................once again

Eternal

that is really weird... the only thing I can think of is a bad connection or broken wire, I'm assuming when you say (barely touching) I assume somebody is holding the cable, in that case, holding the wire in a diferent position than its intended, possibly making a connection stong enough to power the starter... so I'd try a new ground cable.

camaro89dude

your fuel pump might have just crapped out at the moment. also check the wire that goes to the starter from the battery and make sure there is no problem. one time mine was real close to the exhaust manifold and burned a chunk out. Enough power got through to run my electrical stuff, but not enough to start the car.
Hope that helps.
Jason

The Greek

More misfortune.......

I decided to get a whole new negative cable, reinstalled it and the SAME THING HAPPENED AGAIN! tighten it down no start, have someone hold it in a different position, starts right up. Guess I wil buy a new ground wire, its the only thing still stock touching the battery.

I also noticed this today, the light for my alram is flickeringIt has never been like this in the past when the car worked it always has been a solid red light. Didnt notice the alarm ligtht weirdness until today.

Thanks for all the help so far, wonder what will happen tommorow....... will it start??????

Eternal

thats really weird.... does your alarm have one of those starter cut out rigs? I dont know anything about alarm systems but it could be possible that there is a loose wire, making the alarm system think its being stolen so it cuts out the starter???

The Greek

As far as the alarm is concerned it is just a light. I didnt like having an alarm on the car and thats what the car came with when I bought it. I actually pulled the fuse for the alarm a long time ago. Just left the light on so it looks like I have an alarm. To me they are pointless. But the alarm didnt see that high tech or fancy seemed quite basic. It does seem probable however the fuse is gone for the alarm so it would be impossible for it to work, right?

JMFNX

Sometimes if the alarm is even wired it can think loss of power lock out ignition. Mine works that way with the fuse pulled. It only locks out for ten minutes though.
JMFNX@AOL.COM
1989 GTA

Eternal

well whatever the case, the problem seems to be related to the "holding the wire in a different position" theme. is there any other wires that rest over that cable? why dont you test the starter? easy just jump the positive post to the small selenoid post. if that cranks, try turning the key to "run" then crank it and see if that starts it...

The Greek

I'm open to any suggestions at this point. I will give it a shot

Eternal

well did ya test the starter???

The Greek

yeah dude, the starter is fine. everything checked out. but the car still doesnt turn over when its all hooked up to the battery.

I still am amzed at this situation I got myself into. Its something right under my nose. What about something with the ignition? could that be a problem or no. I am reaching for anything at this point

Eternal

ok, well......
so the EVERYTHING in the car works, except for the power to the starter, because the starter checks out good. did you turn the key on to the "run" position and then jump the starter? (check that) if it runs then, its something with the power source either to the ingition switch (broken wire, fuse, neutral safety switch) or down to the starter selenoid. once you have determined if the car runs or not with the key on, that will bring you alot further in finding the problem. let us know what you come up with...

JMFNX

Like Eternal said if you can jump it in the run position that will ero in on the problem. You can also use a voltmeter to see if the coil is hot and listen for the pump to start when in the run position. The most common problem I have had is the fusible links that go from or to the starter if there is no juice after those wires with the key in ignition that should be it.
JMFNX@AOL.COM
1989 GTA

The Greek

And the solution to the problem is.............

Well it turns out that the dude who had the car before me put an aftermarket VATS on. So when I pulled the fuse to disengage the alarm a while back it just screwed up everything. So when I cut power after the installation of the open element the alarm was still engaged, just pulling the fuse didnt get rid of it. So every time I would go to start it the VATS would engage and cut power to the starter. I didnt want to mess around with the electrical system so I took it in and got the VATS professionally removed to avoid future conflict. Never occured to me that I needed the whole thing gone not just the fuse, so I kinda shot myself in the foot. Thanks for your help guys.

However the open element rocks! and the car works so I am happy.