TRAXION

Guyz,

What are some updates that you would have me include in the intro tech article. The obvious updates would include:

1) AT29C256 FLASH EEPROMs
2) Craig Moates (adapters, software)
3) A link to the P730 Part Throttle Fuel Tuning??
4) A link to the buick page with all the valuable FAQ (posted here about a week ago)??
5) A link to the DIY-WB O2 sensor??

What else?

Any CHANGES you guys can think of? Maybe ways to make it an easier read?

Tim

Sarkee

Maybe a link(s)/subdirectory with more info on the 165-->730 conversion???

TRAXION

There is a link in the article to Mike Davis' site. He has all that info listed there.

Tim

Sarkee

...Ummmm...I had an email from -=Jeff=-, I believe, with a corrected (or at least different) pinout table...

And I know others have taken different routes as to the extra/re-pinned wiring needed...

Just looking to get a good cross-section of methods & execution of the mods...

And an idea of how you guys mounted the new 730 ECM with the side-harness vs. 165 bottom-harness...

Hunter Motorsports

A link to Glenn's stuff on Highway mode.
He wrote a huge post on this did he not?
If not - then he should.
And - the P730 part throttle tuning post should be a tech article in and of itself.

MikeT 88IROC350

What about a section on MAF vs SD systems? Maybe list the pros/cons, limitations, and typical tuning methods.

Amen to highway mode as well!!

Jza

A link to jobryans great WinALDL 165 baud scan program?

Grumpy

Tie the Final Answer stuff into it.
Would save lots of repeating of posts.

RBMZ28

:hail: how about a true beginner's guide to tuning.I realize the scope of this might be overwhelming,but if possible to include:what the tables do,the results of changing any particular table from numericly speaking going up or down,and what the different abbreviations stand for.I'm new at this and these are some of the challenges I am either working on(most likely) or have conquered.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Maybe some input from a newbie would help here, since we're the ones that rely on that article the most.

After reading it again last night, I started searching through digikey and other sites for some 27c128 EPROMs, but that search always seems to come up empty handed. If some actual EPROM brands & part numbers were provided, that could be a big help for those of us that are searching around for blank EPROMs. Or maybe they're already there and I just missed them?

TRAXION

Ok guys,

I have made some updates to the article. I have included information about

FLASH chips
Craig Moates' adapters
Craig Moates' software
JoBy's 160 Baud software
DIY-WB
GMECM Bin Library
Using AUJP and ARAP as base images
Where to find ARAP, AUJP, and the latest ECU files.

I also verified all the links. You can review the article here:
http://www.xecu.net/timsiford/update.htm

THIS IS ONLY A TEMPORARY LOCATION UNTIL EVERYTHING IS 100% READY TO GO. I can make quick changes at this location as opposed to the thirdgen.org location.

All the images won't work because they are stored in relative links on thirdgen.org's server. But, I did verify links to other sites (like WinBin which was not correct, etc.).

If anyone can suggest any helpful links or books to put into the new section entitled "Important information for beginners" please do so.

Any other suggestions are welcome but I will NOT be including text on how to tune your car.

Tim

GregWestphal

iTrader: (1)

The updates blended right in with the rest of the article, and it still makes for some good reading after going this for almost a couple years. Bravo!

TRAXION

Thanks Greg. That matched what I was thinking

Tim

SATURN5

well done Tim, easy to follow and understand, especially the "newbie" questions, you do a great "walkthru". cheers, Bob

IROCBlueZ28

Maybe some info on tunning the VE tables @ WOT and the spark tables?

TRAXION

Then it wouldn't be an intro article. WOT tuning requires knowledge of Plug Reading and, IMHO, the usage of a WB O2 sensor along with track testing (or some other device that will allow you to measure performance like a G-Tech or a home-brew acceleration meter).

Tim

IROCBlueZ28

I was thinking of some basic guidelines to steer them in the right direction, that's all?

TRAXION

The most important fact here is that beginners want to first tune WOT to get power. They need to be broken of this thought. WOT is the last thing that you tune ... not the first. That is extremely important.

Furthermore, any info I would give is readily available through the search feature. There's nothing that I can say. I could say that you should shoot for a target AFR of 12.X for NA vehicles but that would mean nothing to a beginner who doesn't own a WB O2 sensor. I could say that you should shoot for the least amount of spark for the most power but what does that mean without a performance meter or a dyno? I could say that you don't want the plugs to be black or bone white but what does that mean when the variations of plug color/tint are so subtle that it can't be fully explained in an intro PROM article.

Sorry. I again go back to my first statement. There is no point in addressing WOT in an intro document when that is the wrong approach. Plus, we don't want to overwhelm people. Start with the simple changes like flags and constants. Once that is complete then move on to some more complex stuff like either the VE tables (which I have already outlined how to do) or the MAF Scalars (which are discussed in previous posts). Then move on to part-throttle spark.

Tim

IROCBlueZ28

I understand, just a sugestion.

Z_Ghost

Very nice update TRAXION, it all fits together nicely.

Frank88

I like it. thanks

Jza

How about adding the stock broadcast codes to that table at the end? ?

RedIrocZ-28

Here is a daunting one... What about those of us who built their motor before they learned to tune the stock motor for performance and are now getting Trouble Codes? I got my car running and it will flash a code 44 (O2 sensor reading a lean condition) I am gonna assume that I need to tune the part throttle duty cycle of the injectors so that I get more fuel right? Wouldn't I also need to tune at WOT?

Just asking..

TRAXION

... I would recommend getting an EFI troubleshooting book - Like Ben Watson's book mentioned in the updated article, or a Hayne's shop manual, etc.

Remains to be seen. Hook a scanner up and check out the BLM and INT. Could be as simple (or complex) as a bad O2, a vacuum leak, bad injector(s), not enough fuel pressure, etc.

as said previously: "The most important fact here is that beginners want to first tune WOT to get power. They need to be broken of this thought. WOT is the last thing that you tune ... not the first. That is extremely important."

Tim

RedIrocZ-28

Traxion, I just checked up on this post real quick, I have to scoot off to work so I don't have the time right now to look over the updated article. I will when I get home tonight.

I still think that if I am getting a lean condition at idle then I am gonna get that same lean condition at WOT. My O2 has 38 miles on it. And I have posted pictures of my worries about vacuum leaks but only to find out that I have none.

At WOT, running lean is grounds for engine failure isn't it? I just put over $2000 into this engine setup and I really don't want to run it lean and go Kablooey! I dunno, I'll read the article later tonight, these are just a few concerns that you may have already answered. I guess I just won't know until I understand the whole picture here. I guess I don't see how fuel pressure is gonna affect the amount of fuel reaching the combustion chamber, I always thought that was dictated by the duty cycle of the injectors. I guess I am just thinking aloud again.

I'll check back in about 8 hours.

TRAXION

Guys (and RedIroc),

The article I wrote is an INTRO article. Nothing more. Nothing less. The article is long enough as it is and I have already heard from several newbies that it is almost too long and can be overwhelming. What I want to cover in this article is the main steps involved in LEARNING to START programming your own chips. The article was never intended to teach you WHAT to modify for every possible condition out there. Rather, I give you a means to start. I give you the fishing rod, the hooks, and show you the lake. I show you how to cast the line. Heck, I even show you where to start fishing in order to build your confidence (flags -> constants -> 2D -> then 3D -> etc). But, if you want specifics like what specific hook, line, sinker, and bait to use to catch a deep sea fish out in the atlantic then you won't find that information in an INTRO article.

I can sympathize with a lot of people's concerns. You invest money in your car and you want it to be fast and reliable. With your new "radical" combination you could run the risk of washing the cylinder walls with fuel thereby ruining your engine. Well, why do you think I wrote that VE tuning article? Like I said, I sympathize. But, everyone has to realize that you are going to have to do some work (and man is that work getting easier!). Hook up a damn scan tool and troubleshoot your car. Find out what needs to be changed. Then, search this messageboard to figure out HOW to change it. This has to be said every now and then because the old newbies have learned it but the new newbies still want everything handed to them. It's just not that easy. If one were to cover every aspect of the more advanced subjects of chip tuning it would take up several binders ... not just a long scrolling HTML page on the internet. Personally, I don't have that kind of time and, furthermore, don't have the willingness to open up my brain for everybody else .... especially when that information is already available in the context of this messageboard, the DIY-EFI archives, etc.

Moreover - a custom chip is not a magic bullet that takes away all your car's troubles. Fact is - a malfunctioning sensor is a malfunctioning sensor ... a miscellaneous circuit is ground is a miscellaneous circuit ground ... an improperly installed camshaft is an improperly installed camshaft ... WTF am I trying to say? Troubleshoot, learn, investigate, research! YOU and only YOU need to determine what is wrong with your car. YOU need to figure out what is wrong OR what needs to be changed. Only then can you then approach the whole subject with some direction.

Tim

trigger GTA

"I have already heard from several newbies that it is almost too long and can be overwhelming"

Not to long but, overwhelming for sure

I have spent hours reading and researching how to just get started. I dont expect peoply to do it all for me or hand every thing to me. But you asked what we would like to see in the Intro tech. Speaking as a new newbie that knows NOT A THING on how too. i would think it would be nice to a list of short forms people use. Like VE, AUJP and ARAP. Just some i found in this link alone. i have used the search and it work great... most of the time. try to do a search useing ARAP and see what you get. something like that would realy help the most basic of the newbies.

thanks

TRAXION

I have a link in the article for the GMECM FAQ located here:
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/faq/

Go to the list of abbreviations.

Tim

3.8TransAM

Just my two cents worth :-)

I am a ASE certified mechanic and a Jaguar certified technician and i even come across terms and the like that i do not understand and sometimes cannot find answers for..

Tunercat seems to be the almost overwhelming bin editor of choice here, and the help with it covers almost nothing as so far as what the tables u are changing actually do(names tend to be smei-self explanatory)..if we all got together as members here, im sure we could build a tunercat manual of sorts that i believe would help us all in the fact that we would always have a document to look back to as a reference ...I know their are several tbales in tc that i would not mind having a manual that actually explains what im doing when changin ie greater or lesser :-)

and not the ultimate end all bible, most at tops a few paragraphs describing operations/functions of key features/changes of the given menu

Im new at this and more than willing to share as much as i learn and pitch in what ive managed to figure out on my own
later
jeremy

tpi_roc

Not a bad Idea but It'd be wise to stay well aware of any and all copywrite Issues and other annoying legalitys

Sarkee

Looks real good, Tim!

...Maybe smaller font for those of us who print everything out for easy lookup/reading...

And maybe a link to the BCC Lookup at GMECM?...

TRAXION

The new PROM article has been posted live on thirdgen's site. Problems with the pictures from earlier this week have been fixed. Everything should be good to go. Post is no longer sticky.

Tim