89camaroRSV6

well ... my question is ... i have a 89 RS 2.8 v6

1. where do i get the bin for it...(apart from having to read the bin from the chip i have)??

2. can i use the 7730v3.ECU supplied with it for my bin???
how do i use this one

need help guys....

Grim Reaper

This is actually related to your first question - you FIRST must find out what ECM your car has. V6s are weird. Some used the same ECM as a comparable V8 TPI car, and others did not.

But, even if the ECM is comparable to the V8, the BIN is not. Due to the limited V6 guys into "high performance modifications", no one has bothered to "hack" the V6 BINs. And no V6 guy has done so either.

If the ECM is not the same as a comparable V8, then I would get "swap" the V8 ECM (i.e. 165 for MAF, and 7730 for SD). Then I would use the V8 BIN for that car, and set the "Cylinder Select" to 6 cyclinder setting. Now the ECM will use the "programming" of the V8 but correctly adjust for the 6 injectors.

If you were to go to a "swap", I would go with the 7730 for either. It seems to be easier to adapt, and PLENTY of other V6 cars use the 7730 (like 90-92 3.1 V6 Cavaliers).

mta227

Not sure where this belief that prom tuning is a world only frequented by V8 owners, but that concept is very wrong. V6 tuners do just fine, they just dont ask as many questions here since the typical response is, well, you just read it...

You would probably want to go with the 88h AZTY BCC.
Its for the 1992 V6, 3.1, Camaro, 4spd auto, a/c, '7730 pcm, distributor, VATS, MPFI.

Should be a fairly well commented disassembly of the AZTY on the ftp site. If not, just pop me an email and I would be happy to attach what I have to your response.

There are many other examples of VERY worthwhile hacking efforts for V6 applications such as the Turbo Grand Prix, Syclone/Typhoon, and 3.1 VIN T. I am sure that those who have put forth their time and effort to do this work would not appreciate being belittled

Camaro_hunter_d

I think your the one that got me the BIN for my 92 MPFI V6 a few months ago!... LOL THANKS.:hail: This is the "base" bin we(89 and me) were using just to see if the ALDL programs were working properly. I know I have the '7730 cause I got it off my comp case.

mta227

Ya, probably was me.. I try to help out the V6 guy's whenever I can. The last thing we need is a disadvantage due to the lack of(or incorrect) information. The GM V6 is a nice engine, light weight and perfect for turbocharging. The Grand National is a great example of what can be accomplished with a bit of V6 boost, even in a heavy car.

Grim Reaper

PLEASE don't bring that attitude to this board!

My comment is regarding the lack of Editors for the BINS for the 2.8/3.1s used in the F-bodies - cause that was what the post was regarding. Don't "twist things" regarding completely unrelated facts. Comparing the 3.1 to the turbo 3.8 is like a TBI 305 comparing his engine to the new LS6 - absolutely nothing in common other than the number of cylinders.

Yes, there is a LOT of nice things for the 148 (3.8 GNs) and 749 (4.3 SyTys) and they are awesome engines- but they don't have anything in common with this poster's question regarding the 2.8/3.1 other than 6 cylinders. The V8 TPI SD 7730 $8D has far more in common with the 3.1s from the perspective of burning eproms.

It's a simple fact that there is JUST not much out there (Bin Editors) for the 2.8/3.1 V6s. Yes, there are BINs available for the V6s - but that is just a "BIN" swap - you STILL are not tuning. If you KNOW of an Editor, PLEASE just tell him (and us) which Bin Editor is available for his car so he can modify it.

If you are so aware of "eprom tuning" for the 2.8/3.1s and would share them with the rest of us, (instead of the response you made) then we would all be more knowledgable. Don't give answer like "I am sure that those who have put forth their time and effort to do this work would not appreciate being belittled." Well, I put a LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT too in helping people, and I don't appreciate your response and trying to imply I am saying something different than I did.

I could have EASILY ignored this post but I answered it so SOMEONE that was aware of a BIN Editor for the 2.8/3.1 could mention it, if one was available. Not for some guy that is suffering from an inferiority complex can start a "V8 vs. V6" fight.

We are into Prom Burning on this board - all are welcomed. We differeniate based on "what's available" or "best choices". Do all the 1985 TPI users get their noses all bent out of joint when we recommend they swap to the 165 MAF? Or when we tell 86-88 MAF users to swap to the 1989 MAF Bin? No!.

We don't say those because we DISLIKE the 86-88 MAF cars, we simply tell them because there is SO MUCH more defined in the 1989 Bin Editor (TDF) than the earlier versions. It is simply a matter of choosing a better defined Bin Editor so they have access to as MUCH of the Tables and Constants within the BIN (for modifications) as possible.

If I was an owner with a V6 car and I wanted to get into eprom burning, I would want to know what would be the BEST alternative so I could modify all the Tables and Constants to optimize performance. At this point, converting to the 7730, running a MAP sensor and using the $8D BIN is STILL the BEST alternative until some of you clever 2.8/3.1 guys SHARE your Bin Editors with us.

Let's keep the facts to the poster's question (2.8/3.1) and drop the "us vs. them" attitude, or I will lock/delete the post. At this point, I feel you owe me an apology. It's responses like you just made that makes me wonder why I even bother trying to help people.

PS: When you say a "disassembly" at the FTP Site, are you saying www.diy-efi.org ?

mta227

I was refering to the statement above, which is complete falsehood. Terry Kelly, Robert Rauscher, Jeremy Gonyou, and many others have done some very excellent work hacking V6 binary code, and that statement DOES belittle their accomplishments. You my friend owe THEM an appolgy!

As for BIN editor's, I am sure Terry would argue the fact that his GMEPRO has application to many V6 platforms, including the TGP and Fiero VIN 9 2.8 V6. just to name a few.

I myself am about to release an editor that makes Turner Cat look like notepad. It has no limitations on the amount of address areas defined, period. It is compatible with existing Winbin ECM definition files and currently running on my computer editing 3.1 VIN T V6 binary that has nearly 900 definitions of constants, tables, and flags. Try that with Turner Cat or anything else for that matter. Is your $8D V8 definition that complete? Not even close!

This is not the fiirst time you have jumped over questions about V6 prom burning with the "use a V8 definition and maybe that will work response" Camaro_hunter_d got the same line about a month ago when he tried to get some help. At least I attempted to point him in the right direction. You know very well that many of us here are working on tuning V6 eproms for performance, so if that along with the statement "limited V6 guys into high performance modifications", is not the thou have not the mighty V8 "attitude", than I clearly do not know what is.

Threatening to lock or delete a post merely because a poster does not agree with what you say is a bit childish now, is it not??

Grim Reaper

Mta227, first, let's keep this IN THE CONTEXT of 2.8/3.1s used in 3rd Gen F-bodies - because that is what this post is ALL ABOUT. Porsche makes a great 6 cylinder too. So what? It has nothing to do with 2.8/3.1s used in 3rd Gen F-bodies.

Now, would you consider the 2.8/3.1 3rd Gen a "high performance" application? Last I looked, I don't see many running 12s at the local drag strip. Hell, most of the time when I look at the V6 Board, the performance standard used for a "quick" 2.8/3.1 3rd Gen is to beat a 305 TBI.

Face it, there is not much available for the 2.8/3.1s in terms of performance parts. I don't make the rules or the parts - I am simply stating a fact. A fact echoed by so many of the 2.8/3.1 3rd Gen owners on the V6 Board. I used to own an older 2.8 and I never found anything for the car before I decided to "switch" to my L98 GTA.

You named some people that are working on some of the V6 applications. Great, I am happy and I hope you will make this information public so ALL will know about it.

IF I owned a 2.8/3.1 3rd Gen, I probalby would have a TON of information for the V6 guys. First thing I would be working on is making the $8D BIN work on a V6 - why re-invent the wheel?

I am terribly sorry that the guys the started this "hacking" of ECMs forgot about 2.8/3.1 3rd Gens. But most of the guys that were the "first wave" owned Vettes, GNs, and SyTys (just to name a few). Actually, if it hadn't been for the Vettes, there would probably be very little for the L98/LB9 3rd Gens. We lucked out by having a similar ECM with similar (but different) BINs. Did you know that there is no "hack" readily availble for the AUJP BIN for L98/LB9 3rd Gens? We must use the 'hack' from a Vette (which does have some subtle differences).

But, I really don't appreciate someone taking a VALID STATEMENT (limited information about 2.8/3.1 used in 3rd Gen F-bodies) and turning this post into something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT that was implied. I use to go to the V6 Board MANY TIMES trying to get some of the 2.8/3.1 owners involved in Prom Burning BECAUSE so little information was known about the BINs used. I've even offered to help ANY 2.8/3.1 V6 owner that would come to where I live so I could do some hands-on testing. (Pretty tough to test something when you don't have access to a V6 car).

I find your entire attitude in this thread argumentative and taking things COMPLETELY out of context. Basically you are trying to start a fight and I have nothing further to say.