730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
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Car: 91' Z28, 92' Z28
Engine: 383, L98 stock
Transmission: Built 700R4, Stock 700R4
Axle/Gears: 12 Bolt 3.73, 10 Bolt 3.23
730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
Fellas, I've been having some issues with my car. All of my mods are in my sig, but the real issue has been trying to get my Lucas 42lbs injectors working properly. Just know I replaced my Ford green top 42lbs injectors thinking they were the issue, but that did not fix the problem. I've done a search and some things have pointing me in the right direction although some solutions did not work for me. I did play with the INJECTOR PW CORRECTION VS. BATT VOLTS table and I believe RBob mentioned in one post to zero out the LOW PW INJECTOR OFFSET VS. BPW table too but I have not done that yet. I think it helped a lillte but I'm not too sure. I just conducted a compression test which yielded good results. But the plugs were glazed and wet with fuel due to my PW issues. So that could be part of my problem too? I'll be sure to put a fresh set of plugs in anyway.
What I've done so far:
1. Tried to tune just in Open Loop(OL)- The car ran some what smooth at idle and my Wide Band o2(WB) was pretty much staying around 14.8 to 15.1.
2. Tried Tuning in Closed Loop(CL)- As soon as it goes into closed loop the idle becomes unstable and not smooth, the BLMs are pretty much staying 122-126 and INT was all over the place.
Note: Like I said before I have yet to install new plugs after the compression test, so the ECM maybe trying to compensate. But then again why does it idle smoothly in OL?
One more thing:
I recently installed a set of MARCH AMP series under drive pulley set and that's when I started to have these issues with the car. Do you thing it's messing with my voltage because I'm seeing 14.0 at the battery and 14.3 at the fuel pump for voltage? I'm just confused. I will attach a copy of my current bin I'm using. It seems like no matter what I change in the bin it does not fix the issue. That's why I swap out injectors. Thanks for your help.
What I've done so far:
1. Tried to tune just in Open Loop(OL)- The car ran some what smooth at idle and my Wide Band o2(WB) was pretty much staying around 14.8 to 15.1.
2. Tried Tuning in Closed Loop(CL)- As soon as it goes into closed loop the idle becomes unstable and not smooth, the BLMs are pretty much staying 122-126 and INT was all over the place.
Note: Like I said before I have yet to install new plugs after the compression test, so the ECM maybe trying to compensate. But then again why does it idle smoothly in OL?
One more thing:
I recently installed a set of MARCH AMP series under drive pulley set and that's when I started to have these issues with the car. Do you thing it's messing with my voltage because I'm seeing 14.0 at the battery and 14.3 at the fuel pump for voltage? I'm just confused. I will attach a copy of my current bin I'm using. It seems like no matter what I change in the bin it does not fix the issue. That's why I swap out injectors. Thanks for your help.
#2
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
Big cam + closed loop using narrow band o2 sensor can have some issues at times. There should be some o2 milivolt offsets for rich lean that you can adjust to ignore the fresh air in the exhaust from cam overlap.
Also I believe in 8D you can set closed loop to come in at a certain rpm and leave open loop at idle.
What does the wideband say at idle in closed loop when blm is 126 or so and INT is all over the place?
Does the car run 128 BLM/INT during part throttle cruise? How about in park, but press throttle down til motor is hovering at say 2000 rpm? If air fuel is near stoich and BLM is 128 or so while in park and reving to 2000 rpm, then chances are it is an o2 sensor milivolt offset problem at idle due to overlap of the cam.
Also I believe in 8D you can set closed loop to come in at a certain rpm and leave open loop at idle.
What does the wideband say at idle in closed loop when blm is 126 or so and INT is all over the place?
Does the car run 128 BLM/INT during part throttle cruise? How about in park, but press throttle down til motor is hovering at say 2000 rpm? If air fuel is near stoich and BLM is 128 or so while in park and reving to 2000 rpm, then chances are it is an o2 sensor milivolt offset problem at idle due to overlap of the cam.
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Car: 83 POS monte carlo 2015 chevy P/U
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi 5.3
Transmission: 700r4 6L60E
Axle/Gears: 2.42 too high
Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
other than the timer function i don't remember seeing anything for open loop idle in the stock 8D mask, but i could be wrong.
in S_AUJP_V4 there is a setting for open loop idle.
in S_AUJP_V4 there is a setting for open loop idle.
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Car: 91' Z28, 92' Z28
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
Does the car run 128 BLM/INT during part throttle cruise? How about in park, but press throttle down til motor is hovering at say 2000 rpm? If air fuel is near stoich and BLM is 128 or so while in park and reving to 2000 rpm, then chances are it is an o2 sensor milivolt offset problem at idle due to overlap of the cam.
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
The injector compensation values are important. With the underdrive pulleys the alternator voltage is probably fluctuating a little. Can try a higher idle RPM as that can help.
In closed loop the surging is caused by the proportional gains. Need to reduce them by the ratio of displacement to injector flow. For a base line use the stock values of 350 ci and 22 #/hr:
350 / 22 = 15.9
383 / 42 = 9.1
Then:
9.1 / 15.9 = 0.57
So need to multiply one of the proportional gains tables by 0.57. In $8D there is a reducer for prop gain when at idle, that most likely can be left alone. I looked as other masks have separate terms for prop gains when at idle.
RBob.
In closed loop the surging is caused by the proportional gains. Need to reduce them by the ratio of displacement to injector flow. For a base line use the stock values of 350 ci and 22 #/hr:
350 / 22 = 15.9
383 / 42 = 9.1
Then:
9.1 / 15.9 = 0.57
So need to multiply one of the proportional gains tables by 0.57. In $8D there is a reducer for prop gain when at idle, that most likely can be left alone. I looked as other masks have separate terms for prop gains when at idle.
RBob.
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Car: 91' Z28, 92' Z28
Engine: 383, L98 stock
Transmission: Built 700R4, Stock 700R4
Axle/Gears: 12 Bolt 3.73, 10 Bolt 3.23
Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
In closed loop the surging is caused by the proportional gains. Need to reduce them by the ratio of displacement to injector flow. For a base line use the stock values of 350 ci and 22 #/hr:
350 / 22 = 15.9
383 / 42 = 9.1
Then:
9.1 / 15.9 = 0.57
So need to multiply one of the proportional gains tables by 0.57. In $8D there is a reducer for prop gain when at idle, that most likely can be left alone. I looked as other masks have separate terms for prop gains when at idle.
RBob.
350 / 22 = 15.9
383 / 42 = 9.1
Then:
9.1 / 15.9 = 0.57
So need to multiply one of the proportional gains tables by 0.57. In $8D there is a reducer for prop gain when at idle, that most likely can be left alone. I looked as other masks have separate terms for prop gains when at idle.
RBob.
Craig
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
Code:
; PROPORTIONAL GAIN vs FLOW ; ; gain = (L84CF[gms/sec] * L84DE[err]) / 256 ; ;======================================= ;-------------------------------------- ; STEP ; FLOW ;-------------------------------------- L84CF: FCB 200 ; 0 -or- ;======================================= ; PROPORTIONAL GAIN vs ERROR ; ; gain = (L84CF[gms/sec] * L84DE[err]) / 256 ; ;======================================= ;-------------------------------------- ; BIN ; ERROR ;-------------------------------------- L84DE: FCB 3 ; 4 0
RBob.
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#8
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Car: 91' Z28, 92' Z28
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
Now I am officially lost. I do not know how to read code or even have the ability to look at my own code in the bin file I am currently using. Don't get me wrong I'm always up for a challenge, but I'm like a fish out of water. Guess I finally have to learn how to read code.
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
I'm using Tuner cat and TunerPro RT. The Bin I'm using is super AUJP V4 with the Nsvram hack. We both know Tuner cat does not have the tables, but I have also been looking through TunerPro like crazy.
#11
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
with the super aujp xdf I believe the tables are closed loop parameter - prop gain vs air flow and prop gain vs error or something like that. Theres one about prop gain duration vs error but not sure what that does.
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
Okay I found what you are talking about, I'll go out test it out. Thanks
Craig
Craig
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Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
That's why its best to look at the address of the item and not the text name.
Naming conventions are different everywhere you look.
Names can change, the address or location of the variable will not change.
In TP hit the "F7" key and sort by the address valve (click the grey header bar to sort)
The $8D definition begins at $8000 address so looking at the item listing, this table would start at location 4CF
There should also be a way in TC to see the address location, I'm just not familiar with it.
HTH
Naming conventions are different everywhere you look.
Names can change, the address or location of the variable will not change.
In TP hit the "F7" key and sort by the address valve (click the grey header bar to sort)
Code:
;-------------------------------------- ; STEP ; FLOW ;-------------------------------------- L84CF: FCB 200 ; 0
There should also be a way in TC to see the address location, I'm just not familiar with it.
HTH
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
Thanks JP86SS I found it. I also took of my under drive pulley set off and re-installed the stock ones. I 'll see if this helped any.
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Re: 730 Ecm and issues with Lucas #42lbs injectors for 8D
UPDATE:
Car is fixed, both sets of injectors were fine my hot wire kit was not properly grounded and moved the o2 sensor back to the collector on the driver side. I put it in the y-pipe because I just got new coated headers and did not want to weld a bong on. Now the car runs like a sewing machine. Always easy fixes!!!!!
Craig
Car is fixed, both sets of injectors were fine my hot wire kit was not properly grounded and moved the o2 sensor back to the collector on the driver side. I put it in the y-pipe because I just got new coated headers and did not want to weld a bong on. Now the car runs like a sewing machine. Always easy fixes!!!!!
Craig
Last edited by zz17iroc; 02-08-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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